Vanilla Fighter --> Thief

cbarchuk

Does anyone ever play a pure fighter dual class to a thief? I know the standard thief dual classes are kensai/thief and berserker/thief but I don't like either option to be honest. One requires too much baby sitting for me and the other doesn't make sense to me from a role playing standpoint. I know the advantage of dual classing is being able to pick a kit but I just wanted to see if going the pure fighter route is viable and how it stands against a mult-class fighter/thief. I'm also talking about BG all the way through ToB. Thanks.

Shin

A pure F/T won't be as capable in the end from a powergaming perspective - the kensai's sole weakness being nullified by a thief HLA, for instance (while the berserker kit doesn't really synergize with thief but is notorious for having advantages that vastly outweighs its drawbacks) - but without any doubt viable, so don't worry about that.

zur312

1. fighter->thief dualed at level 7 is very good pc pretty much better than other multis like dwarf f/t elf f/t and others because of grandmastery (you need bgee or bgt)

but i think f/t elf or dwarf or orc are much more fun being never gimped thief or fighter while dualing to other class

zur312

Shin said:

A pure F/T won't be as capable in the end from a powergaming perspective - the kensai's sole weakness being nullified by a thief HLA, for instance (while the berserker kit doesn't really synergize with thief but is notorious for having advantages that vastly outweighs its drawbacks) - but without any doubt viable, so don't worry about that.

i disagree about powergaming
do you feel dual wielding defender of eastheaven + something for backstab
jan's armor
hardiness?????
critical strike HLA
he has better tanking ability than berserker13/thief or kensai13/thief by 40%
better backstab because of critical strike hla

also i forgot to mention
f/t can use ranged weapons that are underrated for sure like arrows of biting, dispell, detonation, bolts of lighting, bitting etc.
being great archer and best backstaber AND great tank in 1 character

Lord_Tansheron

The only reason to make a pure fighter is to focus on ranged combat, as none of the kits are any good there (Kensai's can't, Berserkers are limited to proficiency, Wizard Slayer interrupt only works on melee unless modded).

I could see a F->T be a choice for BG1 as ranged weapons are particularly strong there. There is little reason to do that in BG2 as they aren't nearly as good.

Other than ranged, there is no reason to ever make a pure fighter, as Berserkers are simply better in every respect. RP is an argument, but as I like to point out RP is like a joker in cards because it trumps *every* argument. If you go by RP, you choose what you *like* by definition, not what's objectively good (insofar as you can be objective of course).

revaar

My first run through of BGEE was a fighter 3->thief, acting as an archer, and he was a fairly powerful character, and fun to play as well. Because I opted to dual early, I didn't have a lot of downtime, which always kills the idea of higher level duals for me. I didn't do a whole lot of backstabbing, so ymmv, but I think it is fully viable.

zur312

Lord_Tansheron said:

The only reason to make a pure fighter is to focus on ranged combat, as none of the kits are any good there (Kensai's can't, Berserkers are limited to proficiency, Wizard Slayer interrupt only works on melee unless modded).

I could see a F->T be a choice for BG1 as ranged weapons are particularly strong there. There is little reason to do that in BG2 as they aren't nearly as good.

Other than ranged, there is no reason to ever make a pure fighter, as Berserkers are simply better in every respect. RP is an argument, but as I like to point out RP is like a joker in cards because it trumps *every* argument. If you go by RP, you choose what you *like* by definition, not what's objectively good (insofar as you can be objective of course).

i think those 13duals are overrated

Shin

@zur312 I was comparing the dual classes (sorry, maybe I should have clarified that) - a pure fighter dualed into thief won't get hardiness either, and in the end won't really be able to do anything that the kensai/thief can't except use missile weapons. I agree those can come in handy like you say, but imo it's completely outweighed by the kensai perks.

As for berserkers, imo their immunities make them more versatile as tanks as well as all-round fighters than hardiness ever could. A dualed pure fighter vs a dualed berserker gets such a short end of the stick (from a powergaming perspective) it's not even close. Lose specialization in ranged weapons and gain on-call immunity to hold, charm, imprisonment, fear, level drain, maze, confusion, etc?

zur312

well those are only spells and protection from spells can be done different way like 40% mr fighter hla or carsomyr with mr% or anything

and i was talking about multi with both hla of thief and fighter

but i get it my post is directed to bg2:tob not bg:ee so in bg:ee berserker/thief is great class just won't use those dispell arrows on mages

cbarchuk

Well I was going to try and role play one of my favorite characters from the Drizzt Do'Urden series: Artemis Entreri. I just couldn't figure how to best build him. I assumed a pure fighter dualed to a thief would be about right. Not sure though.
I know the kensai/thief is better in the end but I think it's a pretty poor class until you get your kensai levels back and UAI. That's quite a bit of down time that gets on my ever lasting nerve. Due to that I've never been able to complete the game with that makeup. I always quit early on. I just figured with a pure fighter you can still wear any armor and use any weapon plus still get grand mastery.

AstroBryGuy

*pulls out Villian's Lorebook* - In 2nd edition, Artemis was a Thief 11/Fighter 15, which is what you're planning, but the other way around (he was a Thief who dualled to Fighter).

Its certainly reasonable to flip the classes and go F -> T. Plus, the Assassination HLA is perfect for Artemis.

cbarchuk

AstroBryGuy said:

*pulls out Villian's Lorebook* - In 2nd edition, Artemis was a Thief 11/Fighter 15, which is what you're planning, but the other way around (he was a Thief who dualled to Fighter).

Its certainly reasonable to flip the classes and go F -> T. Plus, the Assassination HLA is perfect for Artemis.

Thanks for that reference Astro! I didn't even think about a a thief dualed to a fighter. Interesting. I could either Thief 13/Fighter X or Fighter 13/Thief X.

zur312

i think cool fighter thief would be like
assasin4/fighter
range+melee
like bows/crossbows/short sword/staff
you could fire poisoned arrows or backstab with poison
pretty cool not powergaming at all but what a great concept of PC for RP

OzzyBotkins

From a RP standpoint, I like the Fighter duel to mage at the the begining of bg2 after Imoen is taken from the group

zur312

but this is fighter - thief thread not fighter mage thread

cbarchuk

dadwdaw666 said:

1.无条件喜欢与对方在一起；2.彼此容易沟通；3.两人在心灵上有共同理念和价值观；4.都愿意为彼此而委身在长期婚姻中；5.冲突或争执时愿共同面对并解决；6.彼此逗趣，常有欢笑；7.了解彼此，并接纳对方缺点；8.可从对方那里得到信任支持肯定；9.你们的相处非常自在。


【送给工作几年又迷茫的人】1、牺牲休息时间，打造自己的专业能力；2、敢于尝试，有按着自己直觉走的勇气；3、仔细思考自己的长处，明确自己的职业方向；4、修炼自己的情商，不断提高与人沟通协调能力；5、结实更多圈里的高手，新的工作机会往往来自这里。



人累了，就休息；心累了，就淡定。长大了，成熟了，这个社会就看透了。累了，难过了，就蹲下来，给自己一个拥抱。因为这个世界上没有人能同情你，怜悯你。你哭了，眼泪是你自己的,虫虫软件；你痛了，没有人能体会到。你一定要坚强，即使受过伤，流过泪，也能咬牙走下去。因为，人生，其实只是你一个人的人生。



世界上有两件事最难：一是把自己的思想装进别人的脑袋里；二是把别人的钱装进自己的口袋里。 前者成功了叫老师，后者成功了叫老板，两者都成功了叫老婆。 跟老师斗是不想学了，跟老板斗是不想混了，跟老婆斗是不想活了



如果，在身边的最后真的不是你。如果经历了那么多坎坷辗转后，最终还是要分开。如果故事到最后，是我们的身边都有了别的人。如果回忆，诺言和曾经相爱的决心都在现实面前变得渺小，不堪一击。不管以后如何，不管结局如何。现在的我还是愿意执着的去爱。—— 我们一起等我们的最后，最后的最后。


这就是 被爱的代价。。甜蜜的负担~`




我们可以转身，但是不必回头，即使有一天，发现自己错了，也应该转身，大步朝著对的方向去，而不是一直回头怨自己错了。——《谈悔恨》


拼命对一个人好，生怕做错一点对方就不喜欢你，这不是爱，而是取悦。分手后觉得更爱对方，没他就活不下去，这不是爱情是不甘心。你拼命工作努力做人，生怕别人会看不起你，这不是要强，而是恐惧。许多人被情绪控制，只敢抓住而不敢放弃。但什么都不敢放弃，你活得多累。会放弃的人生才会更洒脱。

Excellent point!

elminster

dadwdaw666 said:

1.无条件喜欢与对方在一起；2.彼此容易沟通；3.两人在心灵上有共同理念和价值观；4.都愿意为彼此而委身在长期婚姻中；5.冲突或争执时愿共同面对并解决；6.彼此逗趣，常有欢笑；7.了解彼此，并接纳对方缺点；8.可从对方那里得到信任支持肯定；9.你们的相处非常自在。


【送给工作几年又迷茫的人】1、牺牲休息时间，打造自己的专业能力；2、敢于尝试，有按着自己直觉走的勇气；3、仔细思考自己的长处，明确自己的职业方向；4、修炼自己的情商，不断提高与人沟通协调能力；5、结实更多圈里的高手，新的工作机会往往来自这里。



人累了，就休息；心累了，就淡定。长大了，成熟了，这个社会就看透了。累了，难过了，就蹲下来，给自己一个拥抱。因为这个世界上没有人能同情你，怜悯你。你哭了，眼泪是你自己的,虫虫软件；你痛了，没有人能体会到。你一定要坚强，即使受过伤，流过泪，也能咬牙走下去。因为，人生，其实只是你一个人的人生。



世界上有两件事最难：一是把自己的思想装进别人的脑袋里；二是把别人的钱装进自己的口袋里。 前者成功了叫老师，后者成功了叫老板，两者都成功了叫老婆。 跟老师斗是不想学了，跟老板斗是不想混了，跟老婆斗是不想活了



如果，在身边的最后真的不是你。如果经历了那么多坎坷辗转后，最终还是要分开。如果故事到最后，是我们的身边都有了别的人。如果回忆，诺言和曾经相爱的决心都在现实面前变得渺小，不堪一击。不管以后如何，不管结局如何。现在的我还是愿意执着的去爱。—— 我们一起等我们的最后，最后的最后。


这就是 被爱的代价。。甜蜜的负担~`




我们可以转身，但是不必回头，即使有一天，发现自己错了，也应该转身，大步朝著对的方向去，而不是一直回头怨自己错了。——《谈悔恨》


拼命对一个人好，生怕做错一点对方就不喜欢你，这不是爱，而是取悦。分手后觉得更爱对方，没他就活不下去，这不是爱情是不甘心。你拼命工作努力做人，生怕别人会看不起你，这不是要强，而是恐惧。许多人被情绪控制，只敢抓住而不敢放弃。但什么都不敢放弃，你活得多累。会放弃的人生才会更洒脱。

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