Might be a silly thing to add but you earlier wrote that you can only get higher then 18 str with a paladin ranger or fighter early on, this is true on all account when the max amount of str to get is 18 but with the addition of the half orc race any class can get 19 str if you choose that race.
Also since the addition of BG 2 spells the mage, sorc or bard class can actually have one of the highest starting health because of the familiar spell adding 8-12 bonus hp to the caster. Just remember to keep that pet safe!
Wisdom also does one more thing it gives Magic Defense Adjustment if you have 3 wis you get -3 in it 4 -2 5-7 get's -1 and 8-14 0 after that 15 +1 16 +2 17 +3 18-25 +4. Magic Defense is the saving throw against magical attacks against the mind like horror,charm etc etc. Wisdom also gives bonus spells to clerics and druids starting at 13 wis and up 13 1 extra 1st lvl spell 14 1 extra 1st lvl spell 15 1 extra 2nd lvl spell 16 1 extra 2nd lvl spell 17 1 extra 3rd lvl spell 18 1 extra 4th lvl spell and so on
Con also increases the resurection chance of the target this being quite useless on yourself since it's game over if you die.
Charisma also does another thing that has'nt been noted on yet it earns you more GOLD GOLD GOLD by having less charisma you pay more when buying from shops and gain less gold from selling to shops having higher charisma makes you pay less and sell for more. This is easy to go around though since ONLY the party leaders charisma is counted in when talking to the shop keeper so incase you want your character to have 3 charisma then when talking to the shop keepers atleast then make for instance Imoen the leader instead and you'll see a noticable difference in your previous price when paying and selling.
Also here's a link to some more exact numbers and what the different attributes does.
Are there really good long swords in the game? The best one I can find is Moonblade but you can't use it and the second best one I can find is a +2 long sword with +1 cold damage. The best weapons I can find is a scimitar, a shortsword, and a dagger.
A lot of what you posted is wrong. Well..it's technically correct for PnP, and the manual actually mentions some of it, but most of it isn't implemented in baldur's gate.
Charisma is correct up to 20...though not really worth it in long run..especially if you plan to transfer to the sequel which makes Charisma a completely wasted stat.
The Familar hp thing is true.
And clerics/druids do get increased spells per day with higher wisdom. The rest however doesn't work.
The half-orc can only be a fighter, thief, cleric, Fighter/cleric, or Fighter/thief..so..it greatly limits which classes can start with 19 str.
However, ANY race or class except a halfling can eventually get a natural 19, if they started with 18 str. (After doubling checking the pnp rule book halflings don't actually have a str penalty...they simply can't benefit from Warrior-type bonus strength...but I supposed due to engine limitations they had to give them -1 which, which unfortunately, is a MASSIVE penalty).
I've noticed several items (mostly the new ones, but some original ones as well) aren't flagged for the correct enhancement level, which is probably responsible for a LOT of theses "can't damage the enemy" problems.
Hmm, well, looks like I'm going to have to leave that area for a while & go back. I've got Viccy with a flame sword spell, Imoen with a wand of magic missiles, Jaheira with mostly defensive priest spells and my bard currently has one level one slot filled with a magic missile, which I can't use in combat because she's got armour on. I could cheat
because I discovered "Bag19", which spawns a bag of holding like "Bag04" used to but doesn't seem to work now, spawns a rather buggy bag of holding with high level items already in it. So far I've just resisted the temptation to equip all that stuff
but what would be the point? My game's definitely buggy though, I didn't meet with the bandit who takes you to the camp when I did that map.
Well that table is taken from the original BG manual same thing as it say's in my book.
The Charisma as I wrote is pretty useless you can easily by go it by putting an NPC with high charisma in the leaderspot and it works like you had high Charisma yourself. (Except when directly talking to NPC's)
The saving throw part im not 100% sure on since saving throws in BG is a hidden value most of the time so dont take to much of what I wrote there as true.
Most of what I've written in the previous post is things as I remember them and read in the old manual. As I have never played any kind of PnP so I have no clue on what the rules say's there I can only say from what I've seen in the game and read about it.
But again was a while since I played and dont know all the new things changed, removed or added to BG:EE.
Are there really good long swords in the game? The best one I can find is Moonblade but you can't use it and the second best one I can find is a +2 long sword with +1 cold damage. The best weapons I can find is a scimitar, a shortsword, and a dagger.
The +2/+1 cold damage long sword "Varscona" is one of the best swords in the game (and the best long sword) for a long time
Hey, I just started BG EE so I am pretty new to the game. I don't want to start a new thread just for my silly questions, so I will ask them here.
1 - I am going to roll kensai/mage. When is the best time to dual class my character (level 3,6,7?)?Is it even worth it? I read somewhere that by the time your mage is high level, you will be already in the end-game. 2 - And isn't it better to roll another class and then when bg2ee is out, to just import that class and make it into kensai/mage(if possible). 3 - How does kensai/mage in bgee compares to bg2? Is it still a powerful option(I don't wanna mess with the exp cap).
1. You won't be dualing in BG1. 9 is ideal for using a party, or 13 if you plan to solo. 7 dualed really isn't worth it in the long run, but is the only option if you wish to be a Kensage in BG1.
2. No idea what you're trying to say.
3. Crappy. No GM (unless you use the bug), barely any bonuses, lots of penalties.
After the whole Kensage fad was over with, I realized they're actually pretty bad.
Kensai are best when left single class, or at most dualed at 13 to a Thief. Berserkers make better mage duals (lots of immunities, basically no penalties, 1 less thac0 for the same damage and 1/2 attack more), and even plain fighters are slightly better overall (-2 damage less, but 1/2 attack more, which makes a huge difference)
Hey, I just started BG EE so I am pretty new to the game. I don't want to start a new thread just for my silly questions, so I will ask them here.
1 - I am going to roll kensai/mage. When is the best time to dual class my character (level 3,6,7?)?Is it even worth it? I read somewhere that by the time your mage is high level, you will be already in the end-game. 2 - And isn't it better to roll another class and then when bg2ee is out, to just import that class and make it into kensai/mage(if possible). 3 - How does kensai/mage in bgee compares to bg2? Is it still a powerful option(I don't wanna mess with the exp cap).
Many thanks.
I'd recommend instead to play a fighter/mage multiclass, if this is your first time. Dual-classing is a more advanced build and not recommended for someone's first journey.
I disagree with the way the Bard was portrayed in this article " They are OK, use with discretion" ???
There are better classes in this game, but this game is a party orientated game. A ranger or fighter who is a specialists in ranged weapons is going to kill a lot, but a few traps, the odd bad roll against a ghast, a mage or cleric can kill you. You need a band of people with different classes that compliment each other.
The Bard shines in a party, a bard can be a brilliant asset to any party.
Why?
1) they can use any weapon, so all those random magical weapons which are no use to a fighter (such as the halberd +2, there are much more powerful two handed weapons in BG1, like spiders bane) A bard can use, especially for when Baldurs gate 2 has an amazing stack of weapons for any weapon type, so spears and halberds are a good investment. .
2) they can use bows (two handed weapons like spears and halberds have added range so your tanks can take the aggro and you can still attack without being killed), ranged backup can help kill weaker enemies or disrupt a mages spell casting
3) Bard song can stop fear, which is a common effect spell used by mages, Skald song can benefit all physical fighting party members +1 thac0 and damage, Jester can cause confusion, if you cast doom or greater malison confusion can soften up enemies (Invisibility and jester = mass confusion of everyone!)
4) Pickpocketing can get you some awesome items, can earn you money, stops your thieves from wasting points in Pick Pocketing and concentrate and more useful skills.
5) Can cast some spells! with the leveling of a bard so quick, there caster level tends to be higher than a single classed mage, allowing you to do more damage with a skull trap, scare tough enemies with spook, fire more magic missles, or just allow your main wizard to stack better spells whilst the bard has buff spell like strength, haste, luck, or useful spells like glitter dust, invisibility and greater malison.
6) the main talent of a bard, the use of magical items. you end up with so many scrolls potions and wands that your mage just cannot handle it, a bard can make use of potions, scrolls and wands to provide damage, mind affecting attacks or just use potions to improve fighting/surviving skills. It allows you to utilize everything the game has to offer.
7) High charisma + Friends spell, allows you to have above 20 charisma, which saves you money, so you can buy more wands, potions, scrolls or can make the difference of getting the dagger of venom or waiting until late game.
8) high lore = identify most items throughout the game as you level, no need for spending 100 gold or memorizing identify spells
Though the bard is not a master at anything, the bard can dance with all foes, scare the toughest warriors, confuse the weak, protect your party, buff your party, fight with your party, distract the enemy, scout ahead, use wands (wand of frost good for killing wyverns, wand of fireball = xvart village ownage), steal from others, identify items, get better prices, get better reactions from npcs to give you better rewards.
the little benefits of having a bard lets you focus on important parts of the game instead of reloading and resting, it allows you to play with all the magical toys and try new tactics and experiment. so I don't see why there is a user discretion? no matter what class you play if you are new, you will find parts of difficulty.
don't underestimate a jack of all trades, he can efficiently use your weakness.
Actually, the skald is better then that. The Skald himself has a passive +1 hit/damage.
1st: Gives allies +2 to hit, +2 to damage and -2 to AC. (Skalds damage contribution per round while singing is a minimum of 10 for a full party, or more if each party member has multiple attacks, and by increasing to hit, that also massively improves overall party damage..so a Skald singing contribution is ultimately on par to damage per round as a very strong warrior type, and can always toss a few spells in between songs, the 2 AC bonus is quite nice as well). 15th: Gives allies +4 to hit, +4 to damage, -4 to AC, and immunity to fear. 20th: Gives allies +4 to hit, +4 to damage, -4 to AC, and immunity to fear, stun and confusion.
For beginners planning to jump onto the Kensai/Mage bandwagon: don't. Not only are they inferior to Fighter/Mages and Berserker/Mages, they have some restrictions that are pretty harsh for beginners. I recommend being a Berserker in BG1 (fighters are easier to get to grips with) and dualing to mage in BG".
OR just play a F/M to since you'll know whats in store for ya from the beginning (while the defensive power of the berserker's rage is nice, you really don't get much use out of it, unless you abuse rest a lot since you only get..like 3 uses per day total with a 9 dual). The Kensage is inferior in just about every possible, and is only kind of viable if you wait till 13 to dual...at which point it has a whopping +1 damage advantage over a Berserker/Mage, but with some rather hefty penalties (though if the berserker was properly implemented, it would actually be a pretty close race, though a MC F/M is still better then both.)
I agree, Fighter/Mages are the best class in the game. However, they are a little more squishy in the beginning, so for a newbie it might be better to be a Berserker for the superior HP and ability to wear heavy armor.
The main problem with the berserker though is it requires you to dual class, which if you don't wait till 9 (in the sequel), it's flat out inferior to a F/M, and even if you dual-earlier, say at 7, you spend most of the game without fighter abilities. A F/M, because of the familiar bonus actually has about the same hp at lvl 1 as a lvl 2 berserker. And if you learn the armor spell from Candlekeep, that can easily give you a good early AC (and very long duration), till you can get your hands on the elven chain or a Archmage robe. Multi's will always be easier for noobs, because it requires no strategy beyond learning what the class can and cannot do, instead of figuring when is the optimal time to dual so you can get your abilities back without being a sitting duck.
I suppose with the introduction of Elven Chain things are a little different now. I still think that berserkers are easier in the short-term, although I acknowledge that it would probably (certainly) be easier to play a Fighter/Mage than a level 1 mage in BG2.
Actually its the other way around...you can kick everyone out of the party and effortless hit mage 10 just through scroll xp, and depending on int you might not even have to erase any of them to do so. BG1 and EE on the other hand, you have to quest and get the XP back manually since scrolls don't give shat...so in BG2 it's actually easier to be a dual-class. Though the multi will ultimately be MUCH more powerful due to get more HLA and getting them from both character pools, vs the Dual-class who would only get mage HLA and would actually run out of picks before hitting the level cap, which would give a multi F/M like a 13 HLA picks advantage over a dualed F/M.
I consider that to be excessive cheese though, although it's certainly a valid response.
To break down my feelings, here's what I think:
Beginning of BG: Berserker just about beats Fighter/Mage due to being easier to get to grips with if this is your first D&D experience. However, sleep spam is quite useful-but you really should have a 'proper' mage for casting anyway.
Mid BG: Berserker>Fighter/Mage due to F/M's relatively slow growth rate.
Endgame BG: Pretty much a stomp in F/M's favor as it's only a couple of levels lower than Berserker as well as being a competent mage.
Beginning/Middle/End of BG2: Berserker/Mage for the win if you scribe. If you don't, only the middle is in favor of the B/M. Even the end of BG2 is debatable as HLA's start to rear their head IIRC.
I agree, Fighter/Mages are the best class in the game. However, they are a little more squishy in the beginning, so for a newbie it might be better to be a Berserker for the superior HP and ability to wear heavy armor.
A fighter/mage can cast Find Familiar as a Level 1 spell, which adds up to additional 12 HP = less squishy
I suppose with the introduction of Elven Chain things are a little different now. I still think that berserkers are easier in the short-term, although I acknowledge that it would probably (certainly) be easier to play a Fighter/Mage than a level 1 mage in BG2.
Even without the Elven Chain you can buy a Shield Amulet early on, for not that much gold, which gives better AC (4 vs 5 for elven chain, 2 vs. missiles and immunue to magic missiles), albeit only for 5 turns, but just use as required. Sell it back to a shop and buy back to recharge it once down to one charge.
Do note that there's no reason a Fighter/Mage can't equip the same armor as a regular fighter at level 1. There aren't many spells to miss out at that level. A level 1 fighter/mage with Find Familiar is a fighter with more HP, assuming you didn't have to nerf physical attribute pionts in favor of Intelligence.
Do note that there's no reason a Fighter/Mage can't equip the same armor as a regular fighter at level 1. There aren't many spells to miss out at that level. A level 1 fighter/mage with Find Familiar is a fighter with more HP, assuming you didn't have to nerf physical attribute pionts in favor of Intelligence.
Agreed, at low levels I usually have a fighter/mage in normal heavy armour (even later on, if you know you're not going to be using spells for an enconter, Full Plate can still be worth wearing), just memorising spells like Identify etc.
Comments
Also since the addition of BG 2 spells the mage, sorc or bard class can actually have one of the highest starting health because of the familiar spell adding 8-12 bonus hp to the caster. Just remember to keep that pet safe!
Wisdom also does one more thing it gives Magic Defense Adjustment if you have 3 wis you get -3 in it 4 -2 5-7 get's -1 and 8-14 0 after that 15 +1 16 +2 17 +3 18-25 +4.
Magic Defense is the saving throw against magical attacks against the mind like horror,charm etc etc.
Wisdom also gives bonus spells to clerics and druids starting at 13 wis and up 13 1 extra 1st lvl spell
14 1 extra 1st lvl spell 15 1 extra 2nd lvl spell 16 1 extra 2nd lvl spell 17 1 extra 3rd lvl spell 18 1 extra 4th lvl spell and so on
Con also increases the resurection chance of the target this being quite useless on yourself since it's game over if you die.
Charisma also does another thing that has'nt been noted on yet it earns you more GOLD GOLD GOLD
by having less charisma you pay more when buying from shops and gain less gold from selling to shops having higher charisma makes you pay less and sell for more. This is easy to go around though since ONLY the party leaders charisma is counted in when talking to the shop keeper so incase you want your character to have 3 charisma then when talking to the shop keepers atleast then make for instance Imoen the leader instead and you'll see a noticable difference in your previous price when paying and selling.
Also here's a link to some more exact numbers and what the different attributes does.
http://stane0.tripod.com/BG1Tables.html
Great guide Winthal
A lot of what you posted is wrong. Well..it's technically correct for PnP, and the manual actually mentions some of it, but most of it isn't implemented in baldur's gate.
Charisma is correct up to 20...though not really worth it in long run..especially if you plan to transfer to the sequel which makes Charisma a completely wasted stat.
The Familar hp thing is true.
And clerics/druids do get increased spells per day with higher wisdom. The rest however doesn't work.
The half-orc can only be a fighter, thief, cleric, Fighter/cleric, or Fighter/thief..so..it greatly limits which classes can start with 19 str.
However, ANY race or class except a halfling can eventually get a natural 19, if they started with 18 str. (After doubling checking the pnp rule book halflings don't actually have a str penalty...they simply can't benefit from Warrior-type bonus strength...but I supposed due to engine limitations they had to give them -1 which, which unfortunately, is a MASSIVE penalty).
I've noticed several items (mostly the new ones, but some original ones as well) aren't flagged for the correct enhancement level, which is probably responsible for a LOT of theses "can't damage the enemy" problems.
I've meet both of the bandits did you remember to talk to Tanzig before doing that?
@ZanathKariashi
Well that table is taken from the original BG manual same thing as it say's in my book.
The Charisma as I wrote is pretty useless you can easily by go it by putting an NPC with high charisma in the leaderspot and it works like you had high Charisma yourself. (Except when directly talking to NPC's)
The saving throw part im not 100% sure on since saving throws in BG is a hidden value most of the time so dont take to much of what I wrote there as true.
Most of what I've written in the previous post is things as I remember them and read in the old manual.
As I have never played any kind of PnP so I have no clue on what the rules say's there I can only say from what I've seen in the game and read about it.
But again was a while since I played and dont know all the new things changed, removed or added to BG:EE.
Though I wish it was more PnP like, it'd make things more interesting.
I just started BG EE so I am pretty new to the game. I don't want to start a new thread just for my silly questions, so I will ask them here.
1 - I am going to roll kensai/mage. When is the best time to dual class my character (level 3,6,7?)?Is it even worth it? I read somewhere that by the time your mage is high level, you will be already in the end-game.
2 - And isn't it better to roll another class and then when bg2ee is out, to just import that class and make it into kensai/mage(if possible).
3 - How does kensai/mage in bgee compares to bg2? Is it still a powerful option(I don't wanna mess with the exp cap).
Many thanks.
2. No idea what you're trying to say.
3. Crappy. No GM (unless you use the bug), barely any bonuses, lots of penalties.
After the whole Kensage fad was over with, I realized they're actually pretty bad.
Kensai are best when left single class, or at most dualed at 13 to a Thief. Berserkers make better mage duals (lots of immunities, basically no penalties, 1 less thac0 for the same damage and 1/2 attack more), and even plain fighters are slightly better overall (-2 damage less, but 1/2 attack more, which makes a huge difference)
There are better classes in this game, but this game is a party orientated game. A ranger or fighter who is a specialists in ranged weapons is going to kill a lot, but a few traps, the odd bad roll against a ghast, a mage or cleric can kill you. You need a band of people with different classes that compliment each other.
The Bard shines in a party, a bard can be a brilliant asset to any party.
Why?
1) they can use any weapon, so all those random magical weapons which are no use to a fighter (such as the halberd +2, there are much more powerful two handed weapons in BG1, like spiders bane) A bard can use, especially for when Baldurs gate 2 has an amazing stack of weapons for any weapon type, so spears and halberds are a good investment. .
2) they can use bows (two handed weapons like spears and halberds have added range so your tanks can take the aggro and you can still attack without being killed), ranged backup can help kill weaker enemies or disrupt a mages spell casting
3) Bard song can stop fear, which is a common effect spell used by mages, Skald song can benefit all physical fighting party members +1 thac0 and damage, Jester can cause confusion, if you cast doom or greater malison confusion can soften up enemies (Invisibility and jester = mass confusion of everyone!)
4) Pickpocketing can get you some awesome items, can earn you money, stops your thieves from wasting points in Pick Pocketing and concentrate and more useful skills.
5) Can cast some spells! with the leveling of a bard so quick, there caster level tends to be higher than a single classed mage, allowing you to do more damage with a skull trap, scare tough enemies with spook, fire more magic missles, or just allow your main wizard to stack better spells whilst the bard has buff spell like strength, haste, luck, or useful spells like glitter dust, invisibility and greater malison.
6) the main talent of a bard, the use of magical items. you end up with so many scrolls potions and wands that your mage just cannot handle it, a bard can make use of potions, scrolls and wands to provide damage, mind affecting attacks or just use potions to improve fighting/surviving skills. It allows you to utilize everything the game has to offer.
7) High charisma + Friends spell, allows you to have above 20 charisma, which saves you money, so you can buy more wands, potions, scrolls or can make the difference of getting the dagger of venom or waiting until late game.
8) high lore = identify most items throughout the game as you level, no need for spending 100 gold or memorizing identify spells
Though the bard is not a master at anything, the bard can dance with all foes, scare the toughest warriors, confuse the weak, protect your party, buff your party, fight with your party, distract the enemy, scout ahead, use wands (wand of frost good for killing wyverns, wand of fireball = xvart village ownage), steal from others, identify items, get better prices, get better reactions from npcs to give you better rewards.
the little benefits of having a bard lets you focus on important parts of the game instead of reloading and resting, it allows you to play with all the magical toys and try new tactics and experiment. so I don't see why there is a user discretion? no matter what class you play if you are new, you will find parts of difficulty.
don't underestimate a jack of all trades, he can efficiently use your weakness.
1st: Gives allies +2 to hit, +2 to damage and -2 to AC. (Skalds damage contribution per round while singing is a minimum of 10 for a full party, or more if each party member has multiple attacks, and by increasing to hit, that also massively improves overall party damage..so a Skald singing contribution is ultimately on par to damage per round as a very strong warrior type, and can always toss a few spells in between songs, the 2 AC bonus is quite nice as well).
15th: Gives allies +4 to hit, +4 to damage, -4 to AC, and immunity to fear.
20th: Gives allies +4 to hit, +4 to damage, -4 to AC, and immunity to fear, stun and confusion.
http://www.gamefaqs.com/pc/75251-baldurs-gate/faqs/8566
and
http://playithardcore.com/pihwiki/index.php?title=Baldur's_Gate:_Races_and_Stats / http://playithardcore.com/pihwiki/index.php?title=Baldur's_Gate:_Classes_and_Kits / http://playithardcore.com/pihwiki/index.php?title=Baldur's_Gate:_Progression_Charts
Now you are well prepared! GL&HF!
To break down my feelings, here's what I think:
Beginning of BG: Berserker just about beats Fighter/Mage due to being easier to get to grips with if this is your first D&D experience. However, sleep spam is quite useful-but you really should have a 'proper' mage for casting anyway.
Mid BG: Berserker>Fighter/Mage due to F/M's relatively slow growth rate.
Endgame BG: Pretty much a stomp in F/M's favor as it's only a couple of levels lower than Berserker as well as being a competent mage.
Beginning/Middle/End of BG2: Berserker/Mage for the win if you scribe. If you don't, only the middle is in favor of the B/M. Even the end of BG2 is debatable as HLA's start to rear their head IIRC.
ToB: Fighter/Mage crushes.