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BGT Fighter/Thief

I played a few levels of Kensai with the idea of Kensai -> Thief dual in SoA, but I just couldn't take being a Kensai in BG1. Anyhow, the plan was a thief that could also kick arse. I want to be that character from the beginning of the trilogy to the end, so I am switching to fighter/thief.

At first I was thinking a shorty for saving throws, either gnome or dwarf, but good portraits are hard to find, the funny little walkers just didn't seem bad ass, etc. So, I am thinking of an elf, unless the saving throws would relly make that big of a difference.

Profeciences? I know there is a bonus to bows, but I don't really see that fitting my character. At first I thought dart. Low damage, but at 3apr, it should make up for it. However, no THACO bonus. Maybe daggers? Two pips in daggers covers throwing daggers and eventually Dagger of Venom. One pip in single weapon for critical backstabbing and AC bonus.

4th pip? Scimitar? +1 available in BGT and Belm later. Eventually (BG2) I was thinking Katana and dual wield also for melee bad assery.

What would do for optimal backstabbing and melee build or a full trilogy run?
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Comments

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited August 2013
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
    Post edited by [Deleted User] on
  • WispWisp Member Posts: 1,102
    There's a +2 Scimitar in BG1 (TotSC), not just +1 ones.
  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,366
    elf long sword bow for range dps and backstab

    dwarf for tanking f/t with probably dual long sword
  • Morte50Morte50 Member Posts: 161
    edited August 2013
    For sheer number of skill points Halfling is best, but the 17 STR can be a bit annoying. I'd tend to go with an elf instead, and roll up a nice 18/xx. With the stealth boots you get early you should still manage quite well in all the relevant thief skills.

    Though nothing quite beats a Half-Orc braining people with a stick for sheer hilarity, to be honest. But you do take an enormous hit in skill points, at maximum DEX you're 80 points behind the Halfling.
  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,366
    i think halfling is only good if you really want those points and that could work but for F/T there are other great races or even duals
  • shylamanshylaman Member Posts: 173
    My concern with halflings (besides the shorty avatars looking funny) is the 17 strength. I want to take out mages with a deadly backstab and then be able to go toe to toe as a secondary fighter. Higher strength increases + hit and + damage.

    Are the saving throws worth the trade off of less strength and or +1 to bows/swords if I don't plan to use bows?
  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,366
    this is why i don't consider halflings for good fighters 18+ str is mandatory
    st are really good
  • DexterDexter Member Posts: 253
    fighter/thief is a very solid choice for a BGT run and definitively worth trying. As all multiclass its power grows a bit slowly, but this is barely noticeable and he will be useful from candlekeep to the very last fight in ToB. To my mind the race is not that important: in the long run all race bonuses will be overwhelmed by the power of the class itself, just pick the one you like most.
    But If you ask me, for both practical and cosmetic reasons, I'd go elf (19 dex) with long bow (2,5 APR @ 15 thac0 from start is something to consider) and single-handed style long sword/scimi for backstabs.
  • DragonspearDragonspear Member Posts: 1,838
    Imo if you're going F/T you go with either Elves (Longsword/Bow early) or Halfings (Dagger (explained soon)/dart or sling)

    In this case BOTH classes will get a +1 thac0 early on with melee (elves get +1 with longswords, the halfling gets it with the +1 dagger you can get in candlekeep with 18 charisma) and both get +1 bonus ranged weapons.

    That said, with halfing, if you dump most of your starting points into pick locks you can also net an early 1000 gold inside candlekeep (you need I think either 65 or 70 pick locks in order to open it). Either way you shouldn't need to boost lockpicking for a few levels after that. Then I'd advise maxing find traps and letting gear take care of Move Silently and Hide in Shadows until they're maxed.
  • CactusCactus Member Posts: 152
    The most fun run through I ever had was with a fighter/theif halfling. If you plan on being good aligned, DUHM will eventualy become your way to oversome the STR problem. I put ** in Longswords, ** in Dual wielding ang I used shortbows. Worked perfect!
  • LateralusLateralus Member Posts: 903
    edited August 2013
    Kensai are just awful, I can't tolerate not using armor or the occausional throwing dagger. Bserker rage lasts twice as long as their trick plus gauntlets of weapon mastery.

    Anyways, i reccomend going to level 7 as a human fighter then going rogue. Finishing 7/8 for the first game.

    If you can't wait to use both classes at the same time, place points in set traps and "dispell" the four Elminster "apparitions" and then murder Drizz't for his armor. That's 109,000 xp in about 2 hours of game playing. More than enough to activate fighter.
  • SpaceInvaderSpaceInvader Member Posts: 2,125
    @Cactus Bhall skills depend on the reputation, I think.
    Anyway, pumping Open Lock for a mere Star Sapphire is nothing compare to this trick: pump up Set Trap > after Gorion's death go to South, then to East (Beregost), then to North. In this way you won't face Elminster as soon as you reach the map > set a trap/rest/set trap 7 times > aggro Elminster where you set the traps > shoot an arrow at him, turning him hostile > enjoy 26k xp at start.
    Yeah, I'm that bad xD
    Btw, for a F/T I'd go for a halforc. Str (read "damage and thac0") are priceless, while the you can always get more thief skill points by leveling up ;)
  • DragonspearDragonspear Member Posts: 1,838
    Without any of the lovely halfling shorty save bonuses. Also I'd argue that depending, in the early game free thieving points are just as important, since unlike late game you aren't swimming in them.

    That said half-orc is definitely a good option, I just prefer halfling or elf myself.
  • LateralusLateralus Member Posts: 903

    @Cactus Bhall skills depend on the reputation, I think.
    Anyway, pumping Open Lock for a mere Star Sapphire is nothing compare to this trick: pump up Set Trap > after Gorion's death go to South, then to East (Beregost), then to North. In this way you won't face Elminster as soon as you reach the map > set a trap/rest/set trap 7 times > aggro Elminster where you set the traps > shoot an arrow at him, turning him hostile > enjoy 26k xp at start.
    Yeah, I'm that bad xD
    Btw, for a F/T I'd go for a halforc. Str (read "damage and thac0") are priceless, while the you can always get more thief skill points by leveling up ;)



    Half-orcs look coolest in their armor, and they are brutal backstabbers. However, they are kittens compared to human fighter/theifs.

    Go 7 levels with a beserker. That gives you 2 attacks per round, a massive amount of hit points, and 4 ranks in one weapon. Multi-class races can never gain the +2 to hit/ +2 to damage/ and -1 speed factor that dual builds get.

    Take a 18/00 human and ur not going to miss out on the great strength bonus.

    Good luck.

    Oh yeah, multi-class builds don't get rage either, that's another +2/+2 on top of that.

    The grind isn't to slow if you don't cheat.
  • shylamanshylaman Member Posts: 173
    I have done dual classes, but I prefer to do them if playing BGII only. I hate the play one class for half of BG1 (or all of it) and then another class, only getting both after days of playing. I want to play a fighter/thief from the start. I just did 4 chapters of Kensai to do Kensai -> Thief and it was no bueno. So, multiclass it is.

    I am not going to do any Elminster/Drizzt cheese. Also, I have SCS and SCSII installed. Half orcs are powerful, but I'd only do it if I were playing evil.

    Hmmm. May have to toss a coin. Extra damage from strength and swords with an elf or saving throws, darts, and better thieving skills from an elf . . . Grrr. Decisions, decisions.
  • LateralusLateralus Member Posts: 903
    shylaman said:

    I have done dual classes, but I prefer to do them if playing BGII only. I hate the play one class for half of BG1 (or all of it) and then another class, only getting both after days of playing. I want to play a fighter/thief from the start. I just did 4 chapters of Kensai to do Kensai -> Thief and it was no bueno. So, multiclass it is.

    I am not going to do any Elminster/Drizzt cheese. Also, I have SCS and SCSII installed. Half orcs are powerful, but I'd only do it if I were playing evil.

    Hmmm. May have to toss a coin. Extra damage from strength and swords with an elf or saving throws, darts, and better thieving skills from an elf . . . Grrr. Decisions, decisions.

    Well, I know you scoff at cheese xp but while beserk, sirens are helpless against you. 2k each. Just saying.
  • cbarchukcbarchuk Member Posts: 322
    edited August 2013
    I've always enjoyed multi class fighter/thieves to dual class. Dude, just roll an Elven fighter/thief. It's a great character that will be awesome from bg1 through ToB. I don't usually go with bg2 kits when playing BG1 because I just don't think the original is balanced with them in mind especially since kits weren't present to begin with. The other cool thing about the multi class is you get access to both fighter and thief HLAs at an earlier time. Kensai/thief is a massive pain to develop and berserker/thief...seems like an odd combo to me. Whoever heard of a thief going berserk. Very strange. But to each their own.
    Post edited by cbarchuk on
  • 10thLich10thLich Member Posts: 99
    The STR penalty doesn't matter in the long run, as you've got the gauntles of ogre power, various strength enhancing belts, tome of gainful exercise, machine of lum the mad, the evil way of the hell trials etc.

    Moreover, depending on other mods besides BGT, you'll get more options to increase your strength peramently.

    10th
  • SpaceInvaderSpaceInvader Member Posts: 2,125
    Lateralus said:

    @Cactus Bhall skills depend on the reputation, I think.
    Anyway, pumping Open Lock for a mere Star Sapphire is nothing compare to this trick: pump up Set Trap > after Gorion's death go to South, then to East (Beregost), then to North. In this way you won't face Elminster as soon as you reach the map > set a trap/rest/set trap 7 times > aggro Elminster where you set the traps > shoot an arrow at him, turning him hostile > enjoy 26k xp at start.
    Yeah, I'm that bad xD
    Btw, for a F/T I'd go for a halforc. Str (read "damage and thac0") are priceless, while the you can always get more thief skill points by leveling up ;)



    Half-orcs look coolest in their armor, and they are brutal backstabbers. However, they are kittens compared to human fighter/theifs.

    Go 7 levels with a beserker. That gives you 2 attacks per round, a massive amount of hit points, and 4 ranks in one weapon. Multi-class races can never gain the +2 to hit/ +2 to damage/ and -1 speed factor that dual builds get.

    Take a 18/00 human and ur not going to miss out on the great strength bonus.

    Good luck.

    Oh yeah, multi-class builds don't get rage either, that's another +2/+2 on top of that.

    The grind isn't to slow if you don't cheat.
    I thought he was just asking for multiclass, my fault.
    Of course a dual-class would be stronger.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317



    That said, with halfing, if you dump most of your starting points into pick locks you can also net an early 1000 gold inside candlekeep (you need I think either 65 or 70 pick locks in order to open it). Either way you shouldn't need to boost lockpicking for a few levels after that. Then I'd advise maxing find traps and letting gear take care of Move Silently and Hide in Shadows until they're maxed.

    You only need 60 to open that lock.
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • Morte50Morte50 Member Posts: 161
    @thespace
    That's not an entirely fair comparison though. Apparently you favor darts as a primary weapon, of course lower STR is not going to matter much then. But for a more melee/backstabbing-oriented style of play (such as the OP wants to do), it can make a fairly big difference.
  • DragonspearDragonspear Member Posts: 1,838
    elminster said:


    That said, with halfing, if you dump most of your starting points into pick locks you can also net an early 1000 gold inside candlekeep (you need I think either 65 or 70 pick locks in order to open it). Either way you shouldn't need to boost lockpicking for a few levels after that. Then I'd advise maxing find traps and letting gear take care of Move Silently and Hide in Shadows until they're maxed.

    You only need 60 to open that lock.
    I tried 60 on my halfling a few days ago and it didn't unlock. Does it take a few attempts at 60?
  • CactusCactus Member Posts: 152
    Best race for F/T depends much on playstyle. My Halfling used shortbows and had about 50% of the kills... I used backstab mainly to take out spellcasters (mages and clerics) with one strike before they could buff their party, and I used longswords for that. Because og the innate thieving skills and high dex, I had enough to both open locks and find traps, and high HiS and MS. If you want to backstab everything, then maybe another race, but halfling F/T rocks as a mainly ranged thief that can backstab whenever necessary.

    About the lock: I have only opened it with 65...
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317

    elminster said:


    That said, with halfing, if you dump most of your starting points into pick locks you can also net an early 1000 gold inside candlekeep (you need I think either 65 or 70 pick locks in order to open it). Either way you shouldn't need to boost lockpicking for a few levels after that. Then I'd advise maxing find traps and letting gear take care of Move Silently and Hide in Shadows until they're maxed.

    You only need 60 to open that lock.
    I tried 60 on my halfling a few days ago and it didn't unlock. Does it take a few attempts at 60?
    It may take a few attempts at 60 but it does work. It was like that in the original game though I think what throws people off is that in BG1 Vanilla thieves got only 30 points at level 1. So the highest a halfling could get I gather was 65 for open locks at level 1.

    In BG1 Dwarves, Gnomes, and Halfling thieves can all get the 60 necessary to open that chest at level 1. Though in the case of Dwarves and Gnomes they have to put all their available points in order to get exactly the 60 needed (I think Halflings would have 5 leftover). In the case of BGEE because you get 40 at level 1 some of the other races might be able to get it.
  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,366
    well i think you have missed the point

    he is asking F/T build not thief build

    if he would like to open every single chest and do every single pickpocket he would just go pure thief

    he is asking about F/T to have fighter that can kill things while doing thief things so basicly it is some range f/t like halfling or hard hitting like efl orc dwarf
  • Nic_MercyNic_Mercy Member Posts: 420
    edited August 2013
    elminster said:

    elminster said:


    That said, with halfing, if you dump most of your starting points into pick locks you can also net an early 1000 gold inside candlekeep (you need I think either 65 or 70 pick locks in order to open it). Either way you shouldn't need to boost lockpicking for a few levels after that. Then I'd advise maxing find traps and letting gear take care of Move Silently and Hide in Shadows until they're maxed.

    You only need 60 to open that lock.
    I tried 60 on my halfling a few days ago and it didn't unlock. Does it take a few attempts at 60?
    It may take a few attempts at 60 but it does work. It was like that in the original game though I think what throws people off is that in BG1 Vanilla thieves got only 30 points at level 1. So the highest a halfling could get I gather was 65 for open locks at level 1.

    In BG1 Dwarves, Gnomes, and Halfling thieves can all get the 60 necessary to open that chest at level 1. Though in the case of Dwarves and Gnomes they have to put all their available points in order to get exactly the 60 needed (I think Halflings would have 5 leftover). In the case of BGEE because you get 40 at level 1 some of the other races might be able to get it.
    Just tested right now... a human thief with 18 dex and 60 pick locks was able to open the dresser with the star sapphire. The character spent 35 of his 40 pts on pick locks and had 5 left over for find traps.

    Just tried again with a halfling f/t with 19 dex and also at 60 pl who failed the first attempt and succeeded the 2nd.

    65 seems to ensure success the first time.
  • shylamanshylaman Member Posts: 173
    The higher strength gives +hit. So, does that lower your THACO by +2 or whatever number? Lets say +5 to damage. So, using a dagger at 1d4 the strength bonus actually gives you more damage than the weapon does, correct? Halflings get a bonus to dagger and darts in what way? How is backstab damage calculated again as far strength, extra damage from weapons, etc.
  • Nic_MercyNic_Mercy Member Posts: 420
    edited August 2013
    shylaman said:

    The higher strength gives +hit. So, does that lower your THACO by +2 or whatever number? Lets say +5 to damage. So, using a dagger at 1d4 the strength bonus actually gives you more damage than the weapon does, correct? Halflings get a bonus to dagger and darts in what way? How is backstab damage calculated again as far strength, extra damage from weapons, etc.

    Let's say you have 17 str on a halfling (the max they can get without buffs/items)... this gives you +1 to hit and +1 to dmg with melee weapons (and +1 dmg with some ranged weapons like the sling and throwing daggers)

    For backstab purposes... look at your weapon damage and then multiply it by your backstab modifier (which can vary based on your kit if you choose one) and THEN add the str bonus. So if your 17 strength is giving you +1 dmg and you use a dagger which does 1d4. your normal damage range is 2-5 damage. If your backstab modifier is x3 your damage potential is 4-13 with a backstab. Higher strength will make this number go higher as the damage bonus from strength goes up. That same dagger with a 25 strength and a x3 backstab could do 17-26 damage.

    Strength in general isn't so much of a priority for a thief though. There are plenty of ways to artificially pump strength in the game and they become even more plentiful/reliable in the later parts of the series. Sure if you have points to spare why not pour them into str if it will get you bonuses but the priority really should be dex first and foremost and at least 16 con if a single classed thief imo. I'd try for 18 con if doing a fighter/thief though. It's not too difficult to roll a halfling f/t with enough points to do 17/19/18/10/10/10

    EDIT: Fixed my misunderstanding of when the str bonus was applied in the calculation.
    Post edited by Nic_Mercy on
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    Strength modifiers are added to damage after the backstab multiplier not before. Say I had 19 strength and I attacked someone (from behind while hidden). Say I would have done 6 damage but I have a X3 backstab multiplier. I would do 18 damage + 7 damage from the strength (25 damage).
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