Sorry, my bad. Now excuse me while I go stand in the "stupid people who jump to conclusions" corner over there.
But before I go, I'll just say that $20 for an upgraded version of a 13 years old game is surprisingly steep. Sure a bunch of longtime fans will buy it anyways if just to support an eventual BG3, but imagine how many more people might be willing to give it a try if they sold it on Steam ("hey, I've heard a lot about this Baldur's Gate thing, people seem to really love it. Let me check it out!") for $10-$15.
IGN just announced that's what the game will cost. Twice the price for the very same game? Just because it's on a different platform? Why?
I admit this was my initial reaction.
Personally I think the game is worth the extra money for the fixes alone. Yes, you may be able to get some of them with various fixes available online, but considering how many times I've installed this game over the last 10 years I'd personally prefer the convenience of not having to hunt around for the latest versions. Plus it means that they may just create other games in this style, which I'm all for. With regard to the extra characters, areas, and features...well they are just icing on the cake.
Its true that 20$ seems a lot for a game with 10+ years. But Overhaul has to pay their bills too. Its kind of hard to predict which is the best option to sell more units.
In the end its up to the customer to decide if the new features + all the old content is worth their 20$.
Sure a bunch of longtime fans will buy it anyways if just to support an eventual BG3, but imagine how many more people might be willing to give it a try if they sold it on Steam ("hey, I've heard a lot about this Baldur's Gate thing, people seem to really love it. Let me check it out!") for $10-$15.
Exactly thatst the point. Even if i never before have bought a game on an online selling service... beamdog with baldurs gate enhanced was my first try in that sector... its logical enough that the Restriction only to sell the game on beamdog does take away a lot of extra money.
So we all can only hope that this will change in the future, because it seem that someone has forgotten that money Equals Success
And i seriously dont believe that now very much people just register at beamdog just to get Baldurs Gate Enhanced Edition.
For many new gamers the game is too old, the graphics too dated, the game system too complicated.
And we should not forget that registering at different services increases also the chance that at some point some data loss happens and if you have a credit card - that someone is just stealing your number and makes own shopping madness
People are just fed up of registering at 1000 and 1 sites, they want to stay at their favourite place, want to feel secure and want to buy their games at that place, and nowhere else!
So... this contract in my opinion needs a seriously revisit, new terms and perhaps more freedom to include self made content like more banters and REAL inside game quests - everyone involved would get away with a bigger smile and the heavy disappointed fans in our ranks would be satisfied.
After all we have an Economy Crisis... And every thing done to make sure a company has a better standing point is a good thing!
I can agree that for $20 you can get newer and graphically better games. However, the Baldurs Gate series is an amazing series that IMO has yet to be challenged by modern games. These games were designed to be fun and engaging, something that a lot of games have forgotten about simply to milk more money out of us gamers. So, I guess it could seem like this company is just milkin us a little more I'm ok with it as I love the Baldurs Gate series and really hope that my support will help fund Baldurs Gate 3.
Keep in mind that when you sell a game on steam you don't get 100% of the sale price. They know for sure that people will pre-order and/or buy it on launch day so why would they just give steam X% of that money? It really doesn't make any sense for them.
I'd be surprised if they don't put it on steam eventually but it would really hurt them to do it right now.
So... this contract in my opinion needs a seriously revisit, new terms and perhaps more freedom to include self made content like more banters and REAL inside game quests - everyone involved would get away with a bigger smile and the heavy disappointed fans in our ranks would be satisfied.
I hear it took a VERY long time for them to get even this. Hasbro owns the rights to D&D and Atari owns the rights to Baldur's Gate, neither one is going to just give some new company their valuable IP and let them run with it. Not without millions of dollars being exchanged.
I agree that it would be nice but it's just not doable.
ok, thats a good point but later... that way should be considered, since even if they dont get the full amount of money... With releases son steam, gog.. whatever.... There would be a high chance of increasing buyers - which should be not ignored at all!
Old or not we all knew the possible price when they start this project, it's not a surprise now the $20 (and near R$ 40 for me in Brasil). So:
I -Let's stop the cry cos most companies just focus profit and we know Baldur's Gate EE is more than that. II - Let's support the game cos i really want a Planescape EE, and if BG EE don't give good results, PS:T EE will never exist.
1° - will be the game bug free? For how much time? How many years of support Beamdog provide, as of course with time even the Enhanced Edition will be outdated. As a game from 1998 played even today by many ppl, the compatibility problem is common aknowledge.
2° - Can Beamdog client be changed (or make another client) to support multiplayer? I mean, as a Garena/Euronet DOTA for example and was always hard to multiplayer BG. If this is done $20 will be cheap and totally worthwhile the game.
3° - BG EE (as BG2 EE too) pretend to easy mod life, but would be possible a friendly interface to ppl that don't normally know how to mod? I mean, many games come with a "do your own adventure", they say "it's easy" but in fact is a pain on the ass. This is more a request than a need to have, but will surely weight favorable for justify the game price.
Note that nothing here must be done now, but the simple commitment for those needs justify more than enough the game price.
Ps: Some free full adventures DLCs plz, we deserve it XD (or free vouchers to who pre-ordered at least).
Edit:
Ps2: my 2° point can be the difference betwen few the monopoly of direct sales by Beamdog, making only a beamdog purchase (or multiplayer license purchase for the platafor later), a requirement.
1 - Since we'll be moving on to BG2:EE right away, any fixes made there will be backported to BG:EE. Additionally, we'll be keeping an eye open for scripting bugs and fixing them post-release as well, well into the next year.
2 - BG:EE will provide matchmaking functionality. On Apple platforms, we'll be hooking into GameCenter for match making and friends.
3 - We aren't planning on releasing any major mod tools.
Sorry, my bad. Now excuse me while I go stand in the "stupid people who jump to conclusions" corner over there.
But before I go, I'll just say that $20 for an upgraded version of a 13 years old game is surprisingly steep. Sure a bunch of longtime fans will buy it anyways if just to support an eventual BG3, but imagine how many more people might be willing to give it a try if they sold it on Steam ("hey, I've heard a lot about this Baldur's Gate thing, people seem to really love it. Let me check it out!") for $10-$15.
The argument for $20 being too steep often comes down to people mentioning that this is a 13 year old game, and that it is a remake (an enhancement in this case, but the idea is the same), so I'll address the points separately, starting with the age of the game:
Yes, Baldur's Gate is old. It was initially released thirteen (nearing fourteen) years ago. Why exactly does this diminish its value though? Let's look at some aspects of game design and how their specific value can deteriorate over time. 1. Has the rules system that the game is based on become severely outdated? I would argue that it has not, and that although 3rd Edition and 3.5 offered a couple of possible advantages (as well as a great deal of possible disadvantages), 2nd Edition AD&D is as viable a rules system today as it was when it came out, and so I don't believe that this has diminished in any way. 2. Writing in a timeline other than the current RL one is inherently timeless, references can never become outdated as they are specific to the lore of a fantasy setting. This, as well as the fact that writing in general doesn't really have the capacity to become outdated, means that the value of the writing can't diminish over time. 3. The interface, despite a few possible flaws, was excellent. Every RPG that I've seen come out since games stopped being made with the Infinity Engine have been messy and convoluted. Most of these interfaces have been severely criticized by gamers as being unintuitive and clumsy. The interface has stood the test of time for the most part. 4. I guess what this leaves us with, and what the complaints really come down to then, is graphics. I'll admit that, if made today, the BG games could have better animations, etc. than they originally had. The graphics style of Baldur's Gate, on the other hand, is also timeless. The 2d backgrounds are beautiful even today and can rival even the most detailed of 3d backgrounds in modern games. 3d graphics do quickly become outdated, whereas games using 2d graphics such as BG are at least graphically passable for decades. 5. The overall game itself, of course, doesn't lose value with time. This game will always be great, and should be worth as much today as when it was released.
So, this leaves us with the game being worth less due to it being an enhancement and not a new game. I completely agree that the fact that it's an enhancement makes it worth less than a brand new, original, game of the same caliber as Baldur's Gate. That being said, I also think that it is an improvement upon the original as it currently exists (bugs have been fixed, etc.) and so it is worth more than a lot of currently available new games. How much do people pay for the latest Call of Duty game? Well, you can cut that in half and then some, and you'll have the price for buying what is possibly the best CRPG of all time (definitely within the top five), in its complete form with bugs fixed and some new, original content added, not to mention an updated interface and native high resolution support.
So, is $20 too much for BG:EE? Not even close. This game is well worth the money.
$20 for the PC version sounds very reasonable to me. Especially if the enhancements are noticeable and well realized. Twenty bucks is hardly a fortune these days. I'll happily pay that to support development of BG3.
I barely have any time for this pastime to begin with. If I'll be doing any sort of computer gaming at all it'll be with the BG series. So I'm delighted to see all this new development for the game.
1° - will be the game bug free? For how much time? How many years of support Beamdog provide, as of course with time even the Enhanced Edition will be outdated. As a game from 1998 played even today by many ppl, the compatibility problem is common aknowledge.
As someone that works as a professional tester, it's impossible to promise any software is 'bug free'. At the absolute best you can say "we are not aware of any bugs", but you can't say that that means there are no bugs at all, just you didn't find anymore.
I seem to remember TotSC costing about £15 when it came out (which is more than I just paid for the EE). An extremely generous person would say that TotSC added about 10 hours of gameplay and a few enhancements.
Those who are complaining wanting a PC version without the new stuff too, well if that's what you want, why don't you go buy it from GoG right now, pay less and don't bother waiting since that's what it is?
in fact @kraed that's question is an request of warranty term time the devs give to the game. I want to know for how much time they pretend to fix the stuff and adapt it to the new operational systems and other stuffs.
As a hardcore fan of Baldur's gate saga who finished BG1 5 times and bg2 7 times including 2 solo playthroughs I was determined to purchase the game as soon as it comes out but $20 is over the edge, especially since some of the more significant improvements such as the widescreen support and ability to use bg2 classes and kits in bg1 already come with other mods. So what advantages does this project have over BGT for instance? Few npcs and a minigame? Thats does nothing to motivate me so I will wait for reviews about other things it brings. Arguments such as "support bg3 development" are meaningless. If the game is done well, it will pay for itself.
Bitch Bitch Bitch, for PC players you can pre-order the game for $18. BGEE is supposed to have 18 hours of new content available. In my Book thats got worth to my dollar.
Now you take into account with multiplayer support, graphical advances, and new (to baldurs gate 1) kit bonuses.
If you cant fork over twenty bucks on a game that will bring you bad grades come this fall. Then maybe you should chill.
All I know is I will be buying about 3 copies of the PC versions and maybe 2 of the android simply because they will be on those systems, but also improved functionality as the game can't do multiplayer at all on my windows 7 machine and has bugs galore and the resolution with my monitor is so blurry it feels out of place so with those fixes it becomes worth every penny as I will be able to play with friends, promise of new content that doesn't mess with the game if installed in the wrong order, bug fixes, and a better resolution make my #1 favorite game ever even better than it currently is.
Ok this thread is starting to bug me. No one is forcing anyone to buy anything, if you feel that $20 is too much, or that iPad users are getting an unfair deal then vote with your wallet and don't buy it. This whole project must have been a logistical nightmare to put together so I think Beamdog deserve a little slack.
So many companies have a vested interest, Bioware (and now therefore EA!), Atari, Wizards of the Coast will have all wanted a sizable piece of the pie, and god forbid Overhauil being able to actually pay themselves (probably very little, I suspect this is no small part a labour of love for them).
Also by and large PC Gamers have always done incredibly well as far as the price of software goes (in comparison to a cross platform title that is both on PC and console, the PC version is usually the superior and cheapest). That's even before you take into account Steam sales, and budget ranges.
It seems churlish to me that now there is a platform that traditionally is even cheaper than PC, PC Gamers get all up in arms about it. If buying software that cheaply matters that much to you, go pick up an iPad or Android tablet, and leave "too expensive" PC gaming to those that will enjoy it!
in fact @kraed that's question is an request of warranty term time the devs give to the game. I want to know for how much time they pretend to fix the stuff and adapt it to the new operational systems and other stuffs.
Saying how long the "pretend to fix stuff" seems pretty insulting, I am sure it wasn't meant that way as I believe english is not your first language, but yeah I don't see Trent and the gang as a group of developers that would pretend to do anything. They are doing their best to bring a loved Old school RPG back to the forefront of gaming, squashing bugs and tearing away at the code.
I seem to remember TotSC costing about £15 when it came out (which is more than I just paid for the EE). An extremely generous person would say that TotSC added about 10 hours of gameplay and a few enhancements.
TotSC had new content the 'Enhanced Edition' will not. It had new animations for new creature types and bosses, it had new spells and it had expanded character progression. New animations are much harder to produce than new 2D art(and old BG area art can probably be partially reused). This is why you don't see many new animations in mods.
Most of the new features in EE are coming from BG2 or mods. The main things that aren't are the new NPCs/Quests, but these are the easiest things to do in mods. They are also the things BG already has in abundance.
As for the people asking why BG:EE won't be on Steam, GoG etc. - The team has had to cut deals with a large number of parties to even get to make the new version. There are obviously so many people taking a piece of the pie that they can't afford to give up $ to a distributor and make a decent profit margin.
People always feel the need to complain about something, don't they? >_> Look, if you can't be as reasonable as to pay just 20 dollars for this game (yeah, most games cost 60 or even more dollars nowadays) and give it a chance to prove its money's worth, then just don't buy it and go play another game. It really is as simple as that. I for one would like to support Trent Oster and his co-workers, because I believe they are doing the best they can in bringing us a nice gaming experience. It also shows how much love these guys have for 'old' games like Baldur's Gate and how they respect game integrity. Nowadays big gaming companies, what do they do? They produce a game and release it half way in its development stage, full of bugs and narrative inconsistencies. Just look at the recent games The current BioWare has released. DA 2 was a major flop due to a variety of reasons (go read them yourself in the forums of the BSN, I'm tired of repeating them over and over again) and ME 3 caused a huge uproar because of its underwhelming endings, to name just one example. I'd like Oster and his group of co-workers to slowly gain more freedom by gaining financial means, so that they can hopefully create another wonderful bunch of games for us gamers to enjoy. THAT's where I put the value of my money, namely in my support for a group of game developers who still know what games should be and look like.
Those who are complaining wanting a PC version without the new stuff too, well if that's what you want, why don't you go buy it from GoG right now, pay less and don't bother waiting since that's what it is?
The levels of stupid in this world astound me...
I suppose when you go down to the store to buy a new PC and the salesman says to you 'Hey, I'll just add on this extra £100 for these office programs and the latest antivirus guard' you reply 'Absolutely! Who would buy a new PC without new software? The level of stupids in this world astound me...'
@Kitten_On_A_Cloud Well put! I can't figure out this is all about, either. I paid $80 for an "RPG" and my character spent over half the game on auto-dialouge. The market has less and less RPGs every year and has more FPS than you can shake a stick at. I don't want CoD or its many incarnations. I want an RPG where I can lose myself in a story for a little while and have some fun. I want a pc that I can control and relate to, and find myself actually giving a crap about what happens to them and the other characters. I plan on picking up BGEE on pc and tablet, and harrassing my friends who love the series to do the same. For me, just the new content that's been revealed is enough to justify the $20, and there's still more that hasn't been revealed yet. If 3x characters with their own story arc they plan on carrying over into BG2EE and the BP and the adventure Y aren't enough for someone to consider worth the investment... why come complaining about it? Just don't buy it. Save your money for whatever game makes you happy and call it a win.
A thing i have to let clear is that i do not agree with double charge on the same product to ppl want a version to PC and tablet.
It's against the own agreement of use the companies normally use, as we get the rights over the use of the software. while software is an item it's not an object, therefore you can't steal or destroy it for example, it is always a copy no matter the point of view.
Many companies state in the terms of agreement that we have the rights of use of the software, and no matter which platafor it use it's the same software, remember that this is done cos otherwise anyone would be free to share, sell, take copies and modify their legit copies.
I don't blame Beamdog to much for this, this is a commom pratice that almost all the game companies i know use, i can understand when this is done when you cross the software betwen plataforms as PC, Xbox, PS3...etc, but i don't se a justify for this betwen PC, Mac, Ipad, Android.
So to finsh, the price of $20 ($18 in pre-order) is totally reasonable, but the terms of agreement are not.
Ps: i'm not here to create chaos, it's just how i view the situation, it's my understand of things not a protest, just to assure.
Presumably, people that have bothered to register and participate on this site are already fans of BG and goes a loooooong way to explaining why any criticism is getting the fanboi treatment like you see at Bioware or Bethesda.
Because of that, it just looks like a lot of Beamdog fluffing going on from people who cannot fathom other people don't think like they do. Instead of being the petty in-the-majority bullies you're coming off as, how about looking for compromises the same way you'd have to if you ever left your xenophobic cave.
Eerr, dude i didn't understand well your analogy (i think it was an analogy at least). Maybe is just me, but... would care to explain agin your post @technophobe?
Comments
But before I go, I'll just say that $20 for an upgraded version of a 13 years old game is surprisingly steep. Sure a bunch of longtime fans will buy it anyways if just to support an eventual BG3, but imagine how many more people might be willing to give it a try if they sold it on Steam ("hey, I've heard a lot about this Baldur's Gate thing, people seem to really love it. Let me check it out!") for $10-$15.
Personally I think the game is worth the extra money for the fixes alone. Yes, you may be able to get some of them with various fixes available online, but considering how many times I've installed this game over the last 10 years I'd personally prefer the convenience of not having to hunt around for the latest versions. Plus it means that they may just create other games in this style, which I'm all for. With regard to the extra characters, areas, and features...well they are just icing on the cake.
Its true that 20$ seems a lot for a game with 10+ years. But Overhaul has to pay their bills too. Its kind of hard to predict which is the best option to sell more units.
In the end its up to the customer to decide if the new features + all the old content is worth their 20$.
So we all can only hope that this will change in the future, because it seem that someone has forgotten that money Equals Success
And i seriously dont believe that now very much people just register at beamdog just to get Baldurs Gate Enhanced Edition.
For many new gamers the game is too old, the graphics too dated, the game system too complicated.
And we should not forget that registering at different services increases also the chance that at some point some data loss happens and if you have a credit card - that someone is just stealing your number and makes own shopping madness
People are just fed up of registering at 1000 and 1 sites, they want to stay at their favourite place, want to feel secure and want to buy their games at that place, and nowhere else!
So... this contract in my opinion needs a seriously revisit, new terms and perhaps more freedom to include self made content like more banters and REAL inside game quests - everyone involved would get away with a bigger smile and the heavy disappointed fans in our ranks would be satisfied.
After all we have an Economy Crisis... And every thing done to make sure a company has a better standing point is a good thing!
I'd be surprised if they don't put it on steam eventually but it would really hurt them to do it right now. I hear it took a VERY long time for them to get even this. Hasbro owns the rights to D&D and Atari owns the rights to Baldur's Gate, neither one is going to just give some new company their valuable IP and let them run with it. Not without millions of dollars being exchanged.
I agree that it would be nice but it's just not doable.
I -Let's stop the cry cos most companies just focus profit and we know Baldur's Gate EE is more than that.
II - Let's support the game cos i really want a Planescape EE, and if BG EE don't give good results, PS:T EE will never exist.
But somethings MUST BE DONE/ASKED and therefore i let this little list here @PhillipDaigle, @CameronTofer, @DanBoulos and @TrentOster:
1° - will be the game bug free? For how much time? How many years of support Beamdog provide, as of course with time even the Enhanced Edition will be outdated. As a game from 1998 played even today by many ppl, the compatibility problem is common aknowledge.
2° - Can Beamdog client be changed (or make another client) to support multiplayer? I mean, as a Garena/Euronet DOTA for example and was always hard to multiplayer BG. If this is done $20 will be cheap and totally worthwhile the game.
3° - BG EE (as BG2 EE too) pretend to easy mod life, but would be possible a friendly interface to ppl that don't normally know how to mod? I mean, many games come with a "do your own adventure", they say "it's easy" but in fact is a pain on the ass. This is more a request than a need to have, but will surely weight favorable for justify the game price.
Note that nothing here must be done now, but the simple commitment for those needs justify more than enough the game price.
Ps: Some free full adventures DLCs plz, we deserve it XD (or free vouchers to who pre-ordered at least).
Edit:
Ps2: my 2° point can be the difference betwen few the monopoly of direct sales by Beamdog, making only a beamdog purchase (or multiplayer license purchase for the platafor later), a requirement.
2 - BG:EE will provide matchmaking functionality. On Apple platforms, we'll be hooking into GameCenter for match making and friends.
3 - We aren't planning on releasing any major mod tools.
Yes, Baldur's Gate is old. It was initially released thirteen (nearing fourteen) years ago. Why exactly does this diminish its value though? Let's look at some aspects of game design and how their specific value can deteriorate over time.
1. Has the rules system that the game is based on become severely outdated? I would argue that it has not, and that although 3rd Edition and 3.5 offered a couple of possible advantages (as well as a great deal of possible disadvantages), 2nd Edition AD&D is as viable a rules system today as it was when it came out, and so I don't believe that this has diminished in any way.
2. Writing in a timeline other than the current RL one is inherently timeless, references can never become outdated as they are specific to the lore of a fantasy setting. This, as well as the fact that writing in general doesn't really have the capacity to become outdated, means that the value of the writing can't diminish over time.
3. The interface, despite a few possible flaws, was excellent. Every RPG that I've seen come out since games stopped being made with the Infinity Engine have been messy and convoluted. Most of these interfaces have been severely criticized by gamers as being unintuitive and clumsy. The interface has stood the test of time for the most part.
4. I guess what this leaves us with, and what the complaints really come down to then, is graphics. I'll admit that, if made today, the BG games could have better animations, etc. than they originally had. The graphics style of Baldur's Gate, on the other hand, is also timeless. The 2d backgrounds are beautiful even today and can rival even the most detailed of 3d backgrounds in modern games. 3d graphics do quickly become outdated, whereas games using 2d graphics such as BG are at least graphically passable for decades.
5. The overall game itself, of course, doesn't lose value with time. This game will always be great, and should be worth as much today as when it was released.
So, this leaves us with the game being worth less due to it being an enhancement and not a new game. I completely agree that the fact that it's an enhancement makes it worth less than a brand new, original, game of the same caliber as Baldur's Gate. That being said, I also think that it is an improvement upon the original as it currently exists (bugs have been fixed, etc.) and so it is worth more than a lot of currently available new games. How much do people pay for the latest Call of Duty game? Well, you can cut that in half and then some, and you'll have the price for buying what is possibly the best CRPG of all time (definitely within the top five), in its complete form with bugs fixed and some new, original content added, not to mention an updated interface and native high resolution support.
So, is $20 too much for BG:EE? Not even close. This game is well worth the money.
I barely have any time for this pastime to begin with. If I'll be doing any sort of computer gaming at all it'll be with the BG series. So I'm delighted to see all this new development for the game.
The levels of stupid in this world astound me...
Now you take into account with multiplayer support, graphical advances, and new (to baldurs gate 1) kit bonuses.
If you cant fork over twenty bucks on a game that will bring you bad grades come this fall. Then maybe you should chill.
So many companies have a vested interest, Bioware (and now therefore EA!), Atari, Wizards of the Coast will have all wanted a sizable piece of the pie, and god forbid Overhauil being able to actually pay themselves (probably very little, I suspect this is no small part a labour of love for them).
Also by and large PC Gamers have always done incredibly well as far as the price of software goes (in comparison to a cross platform title that is both on PC and console, the PC version is usually the superior and cheapest). That's even before you take into account Steam sales, and budget ranges.
It seems churlish to me that now there is a platform that traditionally is even cheaper than PC, PC Gamers get all up in arms about it. If buying software that cheaply matters that much to you, go pick up an iPad or Android tablet, and leave "too expensive" PC gaming to those that will enjoy it!
That is all.
Most of the new features in EE are coming from BG2 or mods. The main things that aren't are the new NPCs/Quests, but these are the easiest things to do in mods. They are also the things BG already has in abundance.
As for the people asking why BG:EE won't be on Steam, GoG etc. - The team has had to cut deals with a large number of parties to even get to make the new version. There are obviously so many people taking a piece of the pie that they can't afford to give up $ to a distributor and make a decent profit margin.
It's against the own agreement of use the companies normally use, as we get the rights over the use of the software. while software is an item it's not an object, therefore you can't steal or destroy it for example, it is always a copy no matter the point of view.
Many companies state in the terms of agreement that we have the rights of use of the software, and no matter which platafor it use it's the same software, remember that this is done cos otherwise anyone would be free to share, sell, take copies and modify their legit copies.
I don't blame Beamdog to much for this, this is a commom pratice that almost all the game companies i know use, i can understand when this is done when you cross the software betwen plataforms as PC, Xbox, PS3...etc, but i don't se a justify for this betwen PC, Mac, Ipad, Android.
So to finsh, the price of $20 ($18 in pre-order) is totally reasonable, but the terms of agreement are not.
Ps: i'm not here to create chaos, it's just how i view the situation, it's my understand of things not a protest, just to assure.
Because of that, it just looks like a lot of Beamdog fluffing going on from people who cannot fathom other people don't think like they do. Instead of being the petty in-the-majority bullies you're coming off as, how about looking for compromises the same way you'd have to if you ever left your xenophobic cave.