Alas, I now see an "ask us anything" thread rather large and ubiquitous at the top of the page sticked and unmissable *results may vary very much per user* ... ack!!
Zel SCS has many facets ... one part is AI scripting. Another part is improved encounters. I think the developer is looking at the first part in fact even working with it's creator to implement it reasonably. Ascension well who knows, but that is only for the final bits of the game I usually stop after irenicus is subdued due to HLA boredom.
The pieces of SCS that we're looking at are specifically the pieces that make enemies smarter. Not smarter to the point of anticipating the player's every move, not smarter to the point of cheating to win, but smarter to the point of not making stupid mistakes.
There are plans upon plans for how to make that work without frustrating players, but unfortunately I can't give details.
The pieces of SCS that we're looking at are specifically the pieces that make enemies smarter. Not smarter to the point of anticipating the player's every move, not smarter to the point of cheating to win, but smarter to the point of not making stupid mistakes.
There are plans upon plans for how to make that work without frustrating players, but unfortunately I can't give details.
@Dee could you give an example of this kind of change?
Ascension changes the original ending and story considerably; I do believe that is exactly what they are not allowed to do. New content fine - old content, hands off.
SCS is a bit of a different matter, since it doesn't really modify the story, only enemy/ability behaviors and. However, SCS also has approximately a gazillion customization options, which can't really be replicated in a one-size-fits-all manner.
It would be nice if they took some of the ideas of SCS and implemented them to make enemies smarter (or should I say: less stupid), but I doubt they will do all the extensive changes that SCS is so famous for.
Thanks for the replies; I'm thrilled a tuned version of SCS is being included into the base game. I don't think it will require power gaming necessarily, the improved versions of boss encounters and certain high level monsters is where the supreme difficulty lies and those won't likely be included or will be optional perhaps set with the difficulty slider in the options I would speculate. The game will feel more dungeon mastered than just hack and slash.
Felt strongly enough to google, register and post (I've pre ordered BG2:EE). I love what you guys are doing but I couldn't play bg2 without full SCS and ascension functionality nowadays. I really really hope options for the full blown mods become available (probably happen with SCS one way or another). Any indication would be great!
Wouldn't it just be easier to have SCS as a mod that you can install on the side? I love SCS and wouldn't play without it, but i remember when i started playing the game back in the days and was new to it. There were some fights that i just couldn't beat in a fair fight, and i ended up kiting one of the bad guys at a time or using cloudkill and hope to atleast remove some of their health.
If you're going for the smarter enemies from SCS they will step out of the cloudkill, and you won't be able to get one without having everyone rush down upon you. And if you're going to do something about spell casters, it's going to be a very fine line to walk.
Yeah I'm fine with it being entirely separate, the price of being a minority within a minority is that it's likely I and others will have to wait for SCS compatibility, but thanks to DavidW's hard work it should come in time. It would be great if it was somehow packaged with the game though.
Same for Ascension, though far less confident that will be made compatible, is it worked on anymore?
Sadly I've developed specific tastes over the years and the added challenge is something I find fundamental to my enjoyment of the game these days.
The pieces of SCS that we're looking at are specifically the pieces that make enemies smarter. Not smarter to the point of anticipating the player's every move, not smarter to the point of cheating to win, but smarter to the point of not making stupid mistakes.
There are plans upon plans for how to make that work without frustrating players, but unfortunately I can't give details.
As a voice of support let me say this, the AI improvements of SCS [and the minor but essential spell tweaks such as anti-magic spells being castable past invisibility] are so absolutely important for suspension of disbelief that, I will only buy BG2EE after it is established that SCS-AI is demonstrated to work with it.
I purchased BGEE for support in good faith, but still not played a single game with it (waiting for the new patch and its SCS compatibility confirmation). Playing with BGTutu currently instead.
Please make BGEE/BG2EE actually "Enhanced" by including those elements that improve that world and its believability such as SCS-AI and ascension (let the rest of the challenge mods remain mods).
While I think that SCS is most certainly a worthy mod, i think that the mod in its entirety (as apposed to just its AI improvements) should absolutely NOT be included in the vanilla game. Put quite simply SCS is too damn hard to play in BG2 for slightly less hardcore players like myself.
While I would be happy to see AI tweaks and improvements to make the game better to play; I am firmly against including SCS from the get go.
It should remain optional as a modded add on as currently.
As for Ascension. I wouldn't mind seeing it being included in some form.
While I think that SCS is most certainly a worthy mod, i think that the mod in its entirety (as apposed to just its AI improvements) should absolutely NOT be included in the vanilla game. Put quite simply SCS is too damn hard to play in BG2 for slightly less hardcore players like myself.
While I would be happy to see AI tweaks and improvements to make the game better to play; I am firmly against including SCS from the get go.
It should remain optional as a modded add on as currently.
I think that's what they're aiming for, making enemies less dumb without making it too hard.
SCS has some changes that actually make fights easier (or at least more reasonable), so you don't have to resort as much to cheese - like being able to target antimagic spells through invisibility and being able to breach liches.
And if BG2EE is anything like BGEE, all the new toys will make the game easier as well.
I really wouldn't worry about the game getting harder. It's more likely to go in the opposite direction.
I just don´t undestand how can anybody be against SCS and for Ascension on account of difficulty. The fights in Ascension are much harder than regular SCS fights. In fact the final fight is (I think) easier with SCS (some bugs are corrected). The final Ascension fight is the most difficult fight in the whole standart game (there some more difficult in some mods, for example Eclipse party if you want to fight fairly). I would never play the game without this two mods but I understand that, if someone is not interested in tactical challanges, the battels from SCS and Ascension can be frustrating. I remember how was it when I tried Tactics for the first time. The first is Improved Ilyich...
While I think that SCS is most certainly a worthy mod, i think that the mod in its entirety (as apposed to just its AI improvements) should absolutely NOT be included in the vanilla game. Put quite simply SCS is too damn hard to play in BG2 for slightly less hardcore players like myself.
While I would be happy to see AI tweaks and improvements to make the game better to play; I am firmly against including SCS from the get go.
It should remain optional as a modded add on as currently.
As for Ascension. I wouldn't mind seeing it being included in some form.
It seems you don't know SCS very well. Every single component of it outside AI improvement is optional : you have the choice to install it or not when you install SCS. Meaning, if SCS would be fully integrated in BGEE in the way it exist now (but we know for a fact it won't be), you'd have the new AI but every other component would be an option you could choose to activate, or not. Actually i don't see what could be annoying here.
Ascension is not working this way : you have it installed, or not.
I don't see why you want to add some difficulty to new players by adding Ascension, while you don't want SCS, because actually SCS would be more flexible for players to use (and less difficult with only the AI activated by default).
Anyway, i think the real discussion should be : do we want more options on BGEE. As of now, even the graphics options are really poor (vanilla BG and BGII actually had more graphical options in their launchers). I'd really like to see these games enhanced with a lot of options to try, and maybe a fully integrated mod panel like the Morrowind / Oblivion series have. You know, a screen where all you have to do when you have installed some mods is to select which mods you'd like to use when launching the game. But it seems we could wait a LONG time before seeing this.
I just don´t undestand how can anybody be against SCS and for Ascension on account of difficulty. The fights in Ascension are much harder than regular SCS fights. In fact the final fight is (I think) easier with SCS (some bugs are corrected). The final Ascension fight is the most difficult fight in the whole standart game (there some more difficult in some mods, for example Eclipse party if you want to fight fairly). I would never play the game without this two mods but I understand that, if someone is not interested in tactical challanges, the battels from SCS and Ascension can be frustrating. I remember how was it when I tried Tactics for the first time. The first is Improved Ilyich...
The great thing about Ascension is you can get all of David Gaider's intention without installing a single fight difficulty modifier.
The great thing about Ascension is you can get all of David Gaider's intention without installing a single fight difficulty modifier.
Not quite true - the core component still changes the final battle of ToB: instead of just fighting Amelyssan, you have to take on Irenicus and Bodhi, Slayer Imoen and the Five.
Just to echo the majority. I'm not hoping that SCS and Ascension become part of the default game, that would be ridiculous. What I hope is that they are more easily accessible options that are well supported.
i played ascension on my first time through the series last year with all the improved battles, and the only one i couldn't handle is the last. it is insane to take on the five all at once. i think once i took down the five but i was still too weak to handle amellysan by that point. also i kind of cheated against abazigal because my main was hit by maze and abazigal waited on him, but with the team away from him i was able to save during the battle and load on spells. i just hope they include the story elements of it, but i hope it is quickly compatible so i could use my new knowledge to hopefully succeed without powergaming. i mean, i was so close it seems possible without power gaming
Comments
There are plans upon plans for how to make that work without frustrating players, but unfortunately I can't give details.
SlidMang0's Hip Hop mod, despite my best efforts, will not be included.
*shrugs*
SCS is a bit of a different matter, since it doesn't really modify the story, only enemy/ability behaviors and. However, SCS also has approximately a gazillion customization options, which can't really be replicated in a one-size-fits-all manner.
It would be nice if they took some of the ideas of SCS and implemented them to make enemies smarter (or should I say: less stupid), but I doubt they will do all the extensive changes that SCS is so famous for.
If you're going for the smarter enemies from SCS they will step out of the cloudkill, and you won't be able to get one without having everyone rush down upon you. And if you're going to do something about spell casters, it's going to be a very fine line to walk.
Same for Ascension, though far less confident that will be made compatible, is it worked on anymore?
Sadly I've developed specific tastes over the years and the added challenge is something I find fundamental to my enjoyment of the game these days.
EDIT: Nope, it was @Cuv: "As for Ascension, rest assured that a compatible version of that will be ready when BGII:EE is launched."
I purchased BGEE for support in good faith, but still not played a single game with it (waiting for the new patch and its SCS compatibility confirmation). Playing with BGTutu currently instead.
Please make BGEE/BG2EE actually "Enhanced" by including those elements that improve that world and its believability such as SCS-AI and ascension (let the rest of the challenge mods remain mods).
With a passion.
While I think that SCS is most certainly a worthy mod, i think that the mod in its entirety (as apposed to just its AI improvements) should absolutely NOT be included in the vanilla game. Put quite simply SCS is too damn hard to play in BG2 for slightly less hardcore players like myself.
While I would be happy to see AI tweaks and improvements to make the game better to play; I am firmly against including SCS from the get go.
It should remain optional as a modded add on as currently.
As for Ascension. I wouldn't mind seeing it being included in some form.
SCS has some changes that actually make fights easier (or at least more reasonable), so you don't have to resort as much to cheese - like being able to target antimagic spells through invisibility and being able to breach liches.
And if BG2EE is anything like BGEE, all the new toys will make the game easier as well.
I really wouldn't worry about the game getting harder. It's more likely to go in the opposite direction.
I would never play the game without this two mods but I understand that, if someone is not interested in tactical challanges, the battels from SCS and Ascension can be frustrating. I remember how was it when I tried Tactics for the first time. The first is Improved Ilyich...
Meaning, if SCS would be fully integrated in BGEE in the way it exist now (but we know for a fact it won't be), you'd have the new AI but every other component would be an option you could choose to activate, or not. Actually i don't see what could be annoying here.
Ascension is not working this way : you have it installed, or not.
I don't see why you want to add some difficulty to new players by adding Ascension, while you don't want SCS, because actually SCS would be more flexible for players to use (and less difficult with only the AI activated by default).
Anyway, i think the real discussion should be : do we want more options on BGEE.
As of now, even the graphics options are really poor (vanilla BG and BGII actually had more graphical options in their launchers).
I'd really like to see these games enhanced with a lot of options to try, and maybe a fully integrated mod panel like the Morrowind / Oblivion series have. You know, a screen where all you have to do when you have installed some mods is to select which mods you'd like to use when launching the game.
But it seems we could wait a LONG time before seeing this.