You cut a single sentence from @LadyRhian's stream of thoughts and dare to use it as a basis of your argument against her? Your argument's support is as hollow as Xan's life.
@FinneousPJ No, but taking a single sentence out of context doesn't represent my opinion. I have stated numerous times on this thread, it's the context of nudity plus suicide that gives me pause and skeeves me out. A more representative sentence of my opinion is that requiring nudity in the picture is a backhanded way of sexualizing the image without having to state it upfront.
Here's one thing I just thought of for those who don't get it. If this series of pictures were to star The Joker instead of Harley Quinn, do you think they would have specificed that the Joker in the 4th panel had to be naked? Irrespective of if you want to see the Joker's rail-thin/flabby/gross/however-you-see-them naked ass, groin and chest, do you honestly think that him being naked would be specified in the description? Because honestly, I don't think it would. Why? Because it's women that bear the brunt of being sexualized in the media. Even strong female athletes are posed as if they were sex objects, and we consumers accept it as normal. But pairing sexuality with suicide is a step too far for me- and others, too.
And here, as clearly as I can say it- What bothers me is not nudity or nakedness. It's the pairing of a female character who is already very sexualized with an image where she is naked and attempting/committing suicide. No, DC Comics didn't come out and say "Make it sexy for us!" but it's implied by the very fact that the character's nudity is a stated requirement. That's what makes it skeevy for me.
Yep exactly, they made it clear by their conditions for the picture that they prefer her to be sexy, I understood the message clearly when I read it and personally have no need for any of the DC Comics person to be more exact. Her body is sexy, and I doubt any of the artists would think about painting her with leaves covering her privates.
Women prefer romantic and sexy stories over naked men, men prefer naked women over sexy stories. This is probably evolutional and DC Comics decided to not show naked men because there'd probably be a lack of appreciative fans. I don't understand why would it be a brunt to be sexy, take a look at Fifty shades of grey, the author is a woman and the 10s of millions of female readers seem to appreciate her story about submissive females being dominated by a male. I myself enjoy looking good and be appreciated by women, if they want me in bed, the better for me.
@smeagolheart: 'There's no such thing as bad publicity.' I don't get this statement. Care to explain, please? Other than that, I fully agree with @LadyRhian. Suicide is not something that needs to be sexualized, far from it. I can't understand how you don't see this, @Fredjo. This has nothing to do with Quinn being sexy. This has to do with the combination of suicide and sexyness, as @LadyRhian has been trying to explain in vain thus far. Suicide isn't something you can sexualize, at least not without ending up with a controversy. I've been reading about Harley Quinn, btw, and to me it seems that Poison Ivy is way more sexualized than her. I have never really read any DC comics, though.
I'm not going to join the conversation at the risk of having an aneurysm, but I think you've got real (proverbial! lol) balls to discuss it and hold your ground
@Klonoa Does one really have to possess "real proverbial" balls in order to have an opinion on something? I know Chinese eunuchs didn't have neither real nor proverbial balls but still managed to influence the emperor in many important decisions
Edit: Well they might have possessed proverbial balls
@Klonoa It helps to be older. I'm in my middle to late 40's (46), so at a certain point when you get older, you stop caring what other people think about your opinions and just have them.
it is somewhat off putting i have to agree. maybe this is just one of many things that point to a culture that's become too desensitized? anything is fair game (anyone remember the tree rape from bruce campbell's evil dead? that was really disturbing). it's good there are people who speak out against this idea of sexual suicide, for they are free to protest it just as much as DC is free to promote it (though i have doubts that this is their intent).
it is interesting how they do point out that they want her nude. there's absolutely no mention of water as a requirement in the bathtub, but i'm guessing if you're going to commit suicide in a bathtub w/ electrical appliances, water (or some agent, liquid or otherwise, to transfer the electricity from the appliances to the character) is more or less a requirement.
with that said, maybe there is a reason for all this though (on top of the media attention that occurs through the internet and via mouth). the ad does state they are trying to find a new artist to join them. maybe they're looking for someone who can step outside their comfort zone (like much of us are doing discussing this) and draw something within the posted requirements. the first three panels are as y'all have said, typical black humour comics. the last one is obviously above and beyond the former 3, and maybe this is where the judges will be able to separate those who think they know the limits of the human imagination from those who have never heard of such a thing. maybe they want to see how people react and respond in keeping w/ Harley's psychotic nature against a backdrop of such an already taboo topic and then take it over the top by adding a dose of supposedly implied sensuality to it. it's really open to the artist for interpretation how they will incorporate all these requirements into one panel. i'd like to think they threw in the nudity requirement as a curve-ball, to see how artists would react to it. it says naked but it doesn't say "full frontal nudity! gimme all the naughty bits!" i can definitely see how this could be taken the wrong way but i'm hoping that whoever takes up this contest is gifted with enough talent and cunning to find some sort of loophole that not only avoids this riot of sex+suicide, but impresses the judges enough to get the job as well.
as taboo as this panel concept is, it certainly does seem like quite the challenge a budding young (or old, who am i to judge) artist needs in order to put him/herself ahead of others.
here's a quick history of the character. the writer provides photos which help show her evolution since her creation in the 90s. i notice a distinct change in audience as the years go by. to me Harley starts as a younger more kid friendly villain and has now grown to a very sensual, mature, unstable woman http://ifanboy.com/articles/dc-histories-harley-quinn/
i suppose this contest is in keeping with the going trend of the character. in my brief research of Harley I like to think of her as a mixture of fan service and an analysis in the mind of a psychotic woman constantly suffering from an unrequited love.
i dunno, just my 2 cents. don't ask for change. and don't flame me please. O.o
"There's no such thing as bad publicity" or "Succès de scandale (Success from Scandal)" is the concept if people are talking about you, you get people interested and they purchase your "X" (thing) to find out what the buzz is all about or to see if it really is as bad as "they" say.
"love me or hate me, but spare me your indifference". Something you don't care about is something you won't buy /talk to your friends about / etc.
As I said, Miley Cyrus was nothing anybody cared about until she twerked and now she's hot on the charts due to the outrage. Lady Gaga and Madonna used the same schtick.
nobody but the hard core Harley Quinn fans cared about this contest until it "got edgy".
@smeagolheart: Yeah, but the examples you mentioned (Miley Cyrus, Lady Gaga and Madonna) all now also have suffered severe damage to their image by doing such acts. People tend to take such folks less seriously after a while, especially if such acts keep on happening. In the long run, it just leads to marginalization of the person/character, and becomes more of a cry for attention. And I have the feeling this is also happening with Harley, especially after having read on the evolution she went through throughout the years she has appeared in the DC comics. She started out as a random unnamed gang member, then got her personality fleshed out, got her own set of side-stories, and now, now that she has reached the peak of her popularity, I have the sense she might slip and fall down the long end. I especially got the feeling after reading the article linked by one of the members in one of the previous posts in this topic. It might not be a fully supportable argument, but just look at the design of the outfits she got over the years. She started out with a typical harlequinn costume, which she bought out of fascination for the Joker. Years later, she got re-modelled for the Arkham Asylum games, where her outfit was much more sexualized. And now she has donned an outfit which still is sexualized. What I'm trying to say is, is the fact that even Harley has had her fair share of flattening of image, in her case through (in my opinion) unneeded sexualization. I'm afraid that she also will get her own share of marginalization through continuous popularization in the media. Is this contest in fact still about Harley Quinn as a character? Or is she just being used to cause an uproar and to attract attention, just like with Madonna? That is what I am wondering.
Comments
You cut a single sentence from @LadyRhian's stream of thoughts and dare to use it as a basis of your argument against her? Your argument's support is as hollow as Xan's life.
@LadyRhian I guess I just don't get it, then.
And here, as clearly as I can say it- What bothers me is not nudity or nakedness. It's the pairing of a female character who is already very sexualized with an image where she is naked and attempting/committing suicide. No, DC Comics didn't come out and say "Make it sexy for us!" but it's implied by the very fact that the character's nudity is a stated requirement. That's what makes it skeevy for me.
Her body is sexy, and I doubt any of the artists would think about painting her with leaves covering her privates.
Women prefer romantic and sexy stories over naked men, men prefer naked women over sexy stories. This is probably evolutional and DC Comics decided to not show naked men because there'd probably be a lack of appreciative fans. I don't understand why would it be a brunt to be sexy, take a look at Fifty shades of grey, the author is a woman and the 10s of millions of female readers seem to appreciate her story about submissive females being dominated by a male. I myself enjoy looking good and be appreciated by women, if they want me in bed, the better for me.
Who gave a crap about Miley Cyrus until she twerked and grandma had a heart attack?
Other than that, I fully agree with @LadyRhian. Suicide is not something that needs to be sexualized, far from it. I can't understand how you don't see this, @Fredjo. This has nothing to do with Quinn being sexy. This has to do with the combination of suicide and sexyness, as @LadyRhian has been trying to explain in vain thus far. Suicide isn't something you can sexualize, at least not without ending up with a controversy. I've been reading about Harley Quinn, btw, and to me it seems that Poison Ivy is way more sexualized than her. I have never really read any DC comics, though.
I'm not going to join the conversation at the risk of having an aneurysm, but I think you've got real (proverbial! lol) balls to discuss it and hold your ground
Does one really have to possess "real proverbial" balls in order to have an opinion on something?
I know Chinese eunuchs didn't have neither real nor proverbial balls but still managed to influence the emperor in many important decisions
Edit: Well they might have possessed proverbial balls
it is interesting how they do point out that they want her nude. there's absolutely no mention of water as a requirement in the bathtub, but i'm guessing if you're going to commit suicide in a bathtub w/ electrical appliances, water (or some agent, liquid or otherwise, to transfer the electricity from the appliances to the character) is more or less a requirement.
with that said, maybe there is a reason for all this though (on top of the media attention that occurs through the internet and via mouth). the ad does state they are trying to find a new artist to join them. maybe they're looking for someone who can step outside their comfort zone (like much of us are doing discussing this) and draw something within the posted requirements. the first three panels are as y'all have said, typical black humour comics. the last one is obviously above and beyond the former 3, and maybe this is where the judges will be able to separate those who think they know the limits of the human imagination from those who have never heard of such a thing. maybe they want to see how people react and respond in keeping w/ Harley's psychotic nature against a backdrop of such an already taboo topic and then take it over the top by adding a dose of supposedly implied sensuality to it. it's really open to the artist for interpretation how they will incorporate all these requirements into one panel. i'd like to think they threw in the nudity requirement as a curve-ball, to see how artists would react to it. it says naked but it doesn't say "full frontal nudity! gimme all the naughty bits!" i can definitely see how this could be taken the wrong way but i'm hoping that whoever takes up this contest is gifted with enough talent and cunning to find some sort of loophole that not only avoids this riot of sex+suicide, but impresses the judges enough to get the job as well.
as taboo as this panel concept is, it certainly does seem like quite the challenge a budding young (or old, who am i to judge) artist needs in order to put him/herself ahead of others.
here's a quick history of the character. the writer provides photos which help show her evolution since her creation in the 90s. i notice a distinct change in audience as the years go by. to me Harley starts as a younger more kid friendly villain and has now grown to a very sensual, mature, unstable woman http://ifanboy.com/articles/dc-histories-harley-quinn/
i suppose this contest is in keeping with the going trend of the character. in my brief research of Harley I like to think of her as a mixture of fan service and an analysis in the mind of a psychotic woman constantly suffering from an unrequited love.
i dunno, just my 2 cents. don't ask for change. and don't flame me please. O.o
"There's no such thing as bad publicity" or "Succès de scandale (Success from Scandal)" is the concept if people are talking about you, you get people interested and they purchase your "X" (thing) to find out what the buzz is all about or to see if it really is as bad as "they" say.
"love me or hate me, but spare me your indifference". Something you don't care about is something you won't buy /talk to your friends about / etc.
As I said, Miley Cyrus was nothing anybody cared about until she twerked and now she's hot on the charts due to the outrage. Lady Gaga and Madonna used the same schtick.
nobody but the hard core Harley Quinn fans cared about this contest until it "got edgy".
http://www.uproxx.com/gammasquad/2013/09/dc-comics-apology-harley-quinn-suicide-contest/