but it does nothing to enhance the utility and enjoyability of this forum if he then comes on here gleefully announcing "Look how clever I am! I can beat the game easily now!",
I don't know, I got plenty of enjoyment out of the Werebear Saga.
More seriously, it's already trivially easy to get 25 in all stats and the best items in the game using the console. And the disagreement that started this argument is about a change to the way the game responds to editing that has already been implemented in BGEE. I think your fears about the forums being overrun by "childish cheating" are a bit overblown, unless it's already happened and I'm just oblivious to it. People know that there's a difference between playing the game straight and edited and they mostly keep those two realms separate.
I'm not talking about "the right way to play", I'm talking about "what game are you playing". We can only have constructive discussion in a forum like this if we're playing the same game; if people mod and edit so much that they're playing something substantially different from the rest of us, then discussion becomes pretty meaningless.
Yet we've managed to do so for 15 years. You're spouting what is obviously inaccurate nonsense. What exactly do you think kept the community alive for this entire time and lead to EE and these forums in the first place? If you can't figure out how to talk about BG in the context of mods and keeper then that's your own issue, it's not a problem for the rest of the community.
A game like BG, with it's many (some quite arbitrary) rules and number crunching, tends to attract people who are extremely anal. Thankfully they're in the minority.
You say mods are okay because they have a separate section in the forum dedicated to mods, but edited gameplay is not okay because it doesn't have one?
No, that's not it. It's possible to have reasonable discussion about minor edits which are in keeping with the spirit of the game. What sours a forum (and multiplayer gaming) is when absurd cheats become prevalent. As I said several times, that hasn't happened here yet, but I fear that it could and I don't want it to happen. My point is that encouraging "casual" editing can lead to that outcome.
You do realize that if enough people start talking about edited gameplay, there will probably be another forum section created for users like me, right?
If there's enough apparent demand to justify it, then presumably yes, that'd be sensible. I might even join in that discussion sometimes.
Furthermore, you go on to say that discussion would be impossible (assuming a separate forum isn't created).
Under conditions of being dominated by people all playing a different game from one another, yes. That's not the current situation, but I'm thinking about long term dangers which should be guarded against.
But on the contrary, if overwhelming number of people play the edited game, then discussion would actually be 'smooth'. For example, take a look at ascension/SCS mods. An overwhelming large number of people here, I would assume, do have some sort of difficulty increased game.
I'm making a distinction, which I thought I'd spelt out in great detail, between a commnity of people playing a modded game and an aggregation of individuals all playing separate individually-edited games. It's not the same thing at all.
Because of that, us veterans assume other players here (except beginners) would use a more challenged game, and would give tips and discussions based on that. And this discussion isn't needed if they make a separate section for it.
I reckon that's an unjustified assumption. I'd call myself a veteran player, but I've always enjoyed the vanilla game. So far in BGee, I've been running unmodded until I get thoroughly used to the new content and new format ... and I probably won't mod it until after I've finished a few runs through BG2ee as well.
Actually, in my experience elsewhere, it's never veteran players who ruin games and forums with edits. Veteran players love a game and respect it, so their edits tend to be judicious. It's usually newbies, and perhaps frustrated immature newbies, who do ridiculous things with editors and then write drivel (or spoil multiplayer sessions).
I think its ironic you choose to accept mods but not edited gameplay, seeing as how they both have the potential to "cheat" more than the other.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say, but I don't object to edited gameplay per se. Obviously any player, if he's playing singly and if it's what he enjoys, can do whatever the heck he likes.
Again - it's not "public-benefit" to ban discussion of other ways of playing the game just because you don't think it's the right place for it. New ways of playing the game actually gives life to a decade-old game, and promotes more players to play it. Your method actually hurts the game and its community.
What you say is my method is not my method. I make a distinction between other ways of playing the game, and playing something which isn't even the same game. And I haven't actually asked anyone to ban anything, I've simply argued that personal edits which make a nonsense of the game are unhelpful and irrelevant to everyone else and therefore undesirable subjects for a post.
I seem to be coming under attack here for things which I haven't said and don't believe!
I think your fears about the forums being overrun by "childish cheating" are a bit overblown, unless it's already happened and I'm just oblivious to it.
No, it hasn't happened here, thank goodness. But it's certainly happened in other places, and I'm hoping it isn't allowed to spread here.
People know that there's a difference between playing the game straight and edited and they mostly keep those two realms separate.
So far, yes, we seem to have a fairly reasonable crowd in this forum who can make the distinction. But the sort of people who do childish cheating with editors are also, I reckon, the sort of people who don't recognise that distinction ... else they wouldn't be interested in cheating. (For the avoidance of doubt, I'm not referring to modders and seriously-minded editing experiments; I mean people doing absurd stuff.)
I think your mistake was starting a crusade against a hypothetical dystopia before it's actually materialized. People on the forums are pretty good at recognizing when someone's "editing" versus when they're "cheating".
At the very least, @Gallowglass, this is completely off-topic.
Hmm, point taken @Dee, we've drifted a fair amount.
Yes, I probably plead guilty to crusading against a dystopia before it materialises ... but isn't that the way to help stop it from materialising? So far, most forum participants are sensible and the moderators are on top of the job ... but I'm sure you'll have seen what has happened elsewhere in the past. It's bad experience elsewhere which makes me a tad sensitive on this issue ... but I agree maybe too much so.
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More seriously, it's already trivially easy to get 25 in all stats and the best items in the game using the console. And the disagreement that started this argument is about a change to the way the game responds to editing that has already been implemented in BGEE. I think your fears about the forums being overrun by "childish cheating" are a bit overblown, unless it's already happened and I'm just oblivious to it. People know that there's a difference between playing the game straight and edited and they mostly keep those two realms separate.
Actually, in my experience elsewhere, it's never veteran players who ruin games and forums with edits. Veteran players love a game and respect it, so their edits tend to be judicious. It's usually newbies, and perhaps frustrated immature newbies, who do ridiculous things with editors and then write drivel (or spoil multiplayer sessions). I'm not sure what you're trying to say, but I don't object to edited gameplay per se. Obviously any player, if he's playing singly and if it's what he enjoys, can do whatever the heck he likes. What you say is my method is not my method. I make a distinction between other ways of playing the game, and playing something which isn't even the same game. And I haven't actually asked anyone to ban anything, I've simply argued that personal edits which make a nonsense of the game are unhelpful and irrelevant to everyone else and therefore undesirable subjects for a post.
I seem to be coming under attack here for things which I haven't said and don't believe!
At the very least, @Gallowglass, this is completely off-topic.
Yes, I probably plead guilty to crusading against a dystopia before it materialises ... but isn't that the way to help stop it from materialising? So far, most forum participants are sensible and the moderators are on top of the job ... but I'm sure you'll have seen what has happened elsewhere in the past. It's bad experience elsewhere which makes me a tad sensitive on this issue ... but I agree maybe too much so.