"I punch Dopplegangers" aka BGEE Monk guide
Southpaw
Member Posts: 2,026
I punch Dopplegangers (+) aka BGEE Monk guide
Who is this guide for: for players that were interested in monks and were put off by their difficult first levels. To show that monks can be viable characters in BGEE and to give some tips and tricks how to play them on early levels.
What is this guide NOT for: for powergamers who seek to min-max APR, weapon average damage and tirelessly argue about 0.15% median damage increase.
So, let's get started then...
What are we starting with
So, my monk started with these attributes (++):
Lawful Evil Human Monk: Str- 18, Dex- 17, Con- 15, Int- 10, Wis- 14, Cha- 16
Not bad at all, but also not over-the-top.
Don't let the THAC0 and AC misguide you. It will grow.
NOTE: Mind you, that my monk was Lawful Evil, so I could not snatch Rasaad's Moonlight Walkers (-2AC boots) nor the Glimmering Bands gauntlets(AC+THAC0 bonus). If you create a LG monk, your AC will be even better.
What can we expect at level 8 (max BGEE)?
Str- 19, Dex- 18, Con- 16, Int- 11, Wis- 17, Cha- 16. 80HitPoints.
Unbuffed: THAC0 9, 2APR, -2AC average fist damage 10-19 (THAC0 and AC are even better with a good +2 weapon and single weapon proficiency. Only 1APR though.)
Buffed: THAC0 5, 2APR, -9AC, average fist damage 16-25. 25% Magic Resistance (Cloak of Balduran)
Buffs- potion of 24 strength, Shield, Bless, Potion of Invulnerability, Defensive Harmony...could have buffed them even a bit more)
...for comparison - Dorn with same buffs had 85HitPoints, THAC0 2, 2APR, -7AC (with Gauntlets of Dexterity), average dmg with Rancor(+2) 18-27. Insane Blackguard kit buffs+immunities. Yes...arguably a little bit better, but very comparative.
Tips on character creation&development
Creation
- Get Strength as high as you can. Dexterity helps too and Constitution gives you bonuses up to 16. Other attributes are just cosmetic, choose whatever you have possible.
- I chose Daggers and Single Weapon proficiency for the AC bonus. Throwing Daggers are awesome at first levels. Some people prefer darts, but I leave that to mages. They do little damage and by the time you get the better ones, you will be able to use your fists.
How to play levels 1-5
- Use your monk's inherent speed to kite monsters. Throwing daggers have 2 APR and get your strength bonuses for damage. Sometimes, you can kill a Hobogoblin or other lower creature in one hit. Ogrillons, Ghasts, Half-ogres...all easy prey for your fast monk. Remember, you can also perform hit-and-run sneak attacks on slower enemies, just like the Thieves (no backstab bonus though)
- Do not hesitate to use potions. Monks can use some great Fighter-only potions like "Potion of Invulnerability"(makes boss fights a cakewalk), "Potion of Defense", strength potions...aaand exploding potions of course! Use them, use them, use them! No point in hoarding them!
- Get +AC protection items asap - Ring of Protection +1, Belts that prevent Slashing/Piercing damage. Boots of Avoidance to fight archers or Boots of Stealth (Worn Whispers) to help you stalk.
- Get the bracers that help you throw daggers (+2 to THAC0 with missiles). I never felt the need to equip Bracers of Defense. They never provided any help to me and were not worth the money.
- Next proficiency that helps - Scimitars. Or Single weapon proficiency...whatever you don't have.
- If you are Lawful Good, you can steal Rasaad's boots. (Lawful Good. yeah...right)
How to play levels 5-8
- Now, your fists are starting to become a power to reckon. Also, your AC is lower and with Shield spell, you are routinely below 0 AC.
- I chose Long Swords as new proficiency. Alternatively - Slings is a good choice too. (Long Swords for the flaming sword found in Durlag's Tower to hack Karoug's face with)
- Get the bracers that enhance your THAC0 and dmg(Legacy of Masters) to replace the +THAC0 missile dmg Bracers. Or Gauntlets of Ogre(18/00) Power. Whatever helps you more. Lawful Good Monks can use the Glittering Bands, Big Fisted Belt.
- Replace the +1 ring for +2 ring from Ramazith.
- Get the Cloak of Balduran from Quenash(another -1AC, plus saves bonus and Magic Resistance)
- Ring of Fire Resistance, Greenstone Amulet - nifty items.
- Potions of strength are quite common. Chug them down in a challenging battle.
- If you got the Scimitar proficiency and are Lawful Good...and kill Drizzt, you can use the +3 Scimitar Twinkle for some more AC bonus. (...Lawful Good...yeah)
Who is this guide for: for players that were interested in monks and were put off by their difficult first levels. To show that monks can be viable characters in BGEE and to give some tips and tricks how to play them on early levels.
What is this guide NOT for: for powergamers who seek to min-max APR, weapon average damage and tirelessly argue about 0.15% median damage increase.
So, let's get started then...
What are we starting with
So, my monk started with these attributes (++):
Lawful Evil Human Monk: Str- 18, Dex- 17, Con- 15, Int- 10, Wis- 14, Cha- 16
Not bad at all, but also not over-the-top.
Don't let the THAC0 and AC misguide you. It will grow.
NOTE: Mind you, that my monk was Lawful Evil, so I could not snatch Rasaad's Moonlight Walkers (-2AC boots) nor the Glimmering Bands gauntlets(AC+THAC0 bonus). If you create a LG monk, your AC will be even better.
What can we expect at level 8 (max BGEE)?
Str- 19, Dex- 18, Con- 16, Int- 11, Wis- 17, Cha- 16. 80HitPoints.
Unbuffed: THAC0 9, 2APR, -2AC average fist damage 10-19 (THAC0 and AC are even better with a good +2 weapon and single weapon proficiency. Only 1APR though.)
Buffed: THAC0 5, 2APR, -9AC, average fist damage 16-25. 25% Magic Resistance (Cloak of Balduran)
Buffs- potion of 24 strength, Shield, Bless, Potion of Invulnerability, Defensive Harmony...could have buffed them even a bit more)
...for comparison - Dorn with same buffs had 85HitPoints, THAC0 2, 2APR, -7AC (with Gauntlets of Dexterity), average dmg with Rancor(+2) 18-27. Insane Blackguard kit buffs+immunities. Yes...arguably a little bit better, but very comparative.
Tips on character creation&development
Creation
- Get Strength as high as you can. Dexterity helps too and Constitution gives you bonuses up to 16. Other attributes are just cosmetic, choose whatever you have possible.
- I chose Daggers and Single Weapon proficiency for the AC bonus. Throwing Daggers are awesome at first levels. Some people prefer darts, but I leave that to mages. They do little damage and by the time you get the better ones, you will be able to use your fists.
How to play levels 1-5
- Use your monk's inherent speed to kite monsters. Throwing daggers have 2 APR and get your strength bonuses for damage. Sometimes, you can kill a Hobogoblin or other lower creature in one hit. Ogrillons, Ghasts, Half-ogres...all easy prey for your fast monk. Remember, you can also perform hit-and-run sneak attacks on slower enemies, just like the Thieves (no backstab bonus though)
- Do not hesitate to use potions. Monks can use some great Fighter-only potions like "Potion of Invulnerability"(makes boss fights a cakewalk), "Potion of Defense", strength potions...aaand exploding potions of course! Use them, use them, use them! No point in hoarding them!
- Get +AC protection items asap - Ring of Protection +1, Belts that prevent Slashing/Piercing damage. Boots of Avoidance to fight archers or Boots of Stealth (Worn Whispers) to help you stalk.
- Get the bracers that help you throw daggers (+2 to THAC0 with missiles). I never felt the need to equip Bracers of Defense. They never provided any help to me and were not worth the money.
- Next proficiency that helps - Scimitars. Or Single weapon proficiency...whatever you don't have.
- If you are Lawful Good, you can steal Rasaad's boots. (Lawful Good. yeah...right)
How to play levels 5-8
- Now, your fists are starting to become a power to reckon. Also, your AC is lower and with Shield spell, you are routinely below 0 AC.
- I chose Long Swords as new proficiency. Alternatively - Slings is a good choice too. (Long Swords for the flaming sword found in Durlag's Tower to hack Karoug's face with)
- Get the bracers that enhance your THAC0 and dmg(Legacy of Masters) to replace the +THAC0 missile dmg Bracers. Or Gauntlets of Ogre(18/00) Power. Whatever helps you more. Lawful Good Monks can use the Glittering Bands, Big Fisted Belt.
- Replace the +1 ring for +2 ring from Ramazith.
- Get the Cloak of Balduran from Quenash(another -1AC, plus saves bonus and Magic Resistance)
- Ring of Fire Resistance, Greenstone Amulet - nifty items.
- Potions of strength are quite common. Chug them down in a challenging battle.
- If you got the Scimitar proficiency and are Lawful Good...and kill Drizzt, you can use the +3 Scimitar Twinkle for some more AC bonus. (...Lawful Good...yeah)
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Comments
Overall strategy
- There's the thing, when comparing a Monk with Fighters...lots of people will dig up a Berserker with GM in two-handers to show you that they have better average damage. We don't need that crap. Paladins can not stalk in shadows. Fighters can not stun unsuspecting foes and run like the wind.
- For simple enemies, just walk up to them and proceed kicking their arses. Use your stunning fist to stun foes and prevent them from actually doing anything. Use your Bhaalspawn powers to buff you or wreak havoc in the opponents.
- One more funny use of stun - you killed the Sirene, but your party member is still charmed and tries to attack you? Stun him/her and move away.
- Shield yourself with Barkskin or Shield from the Shield Amulet and you don't really have to mind the fact that you aren't donning armour like the other members. Always remember, that monks are fast and can go into stealth, if necessary. Hit-and-run can be a successful tactics like described below.
Warriors&Archers
- Simple. Buff yourself if needed, stun them and just punch some holes into their armor. Especially archers, as Monks have natural AC bonus against missiles and high running speed. Especially, if you combine that with the Hide in Shadows skill, they will "never see you coming".
Mages
- My best strategy is to hide in shadows and attack the mages first with Dagger of Venom. Guaranteed hit and guaranteed, they will no longer try to cast. If Dagger of Venom is not available, try the Stunning Fist. Or throwing Daggers. Monks tend to have good THAC0, so they are likely to hit.
- One tactic I used on the last enemy group with the guy that shoots Exploding arrows: I did hide in shadows, walked up to him and stabbed him with the Dagger of Venom. Chugged a potion of invisibility and moved away for a while. Let the poison do it's work. Then again. It took me 3 stabs to kill the guy (the last stab killed him instantly, did not need to wait for the poison). And that was a tough warrior. Mages will go down much faster.
Special enemies like Karoug or Aec'letec
- The monk's fist is not yet a magical weapon, so you will have to pick up another. I prefer Scimitars or Daggers. Monks will get a special Scimitar early in BG2EE and Daggers allows you to wield Dagger of Venom. Or the Silver Dagger for Karoug.
- Kill the adds with your fists, they do enough damage to kill them. Then just simply walk up to the bosses and attack them with the special weapon.
Closing word
Thank you for reading this till here. I personally think a monk is a very powerful class with a lot of gaming and RP potential. Just wait until we get our insane MagicResistance in BG2EE and then all you min-maxed Berserkers or goody two-shoes Paladins with your magical weapons can go to Nine Hells. Snivelling simians.
Let the tin cans strap themselves into corroded, clunky plate armours, let them suffer slowing and strangling armour chafing, we don't need their pansy scales to be tough. Let them hang on their precious swords and maces. WE can use our FISTS to pummel foes into submission.
A sword is a sword, but there is nothing more rewarding than walking up to Sarevok and punch him into a bloody pulp.
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+ regrettably, the monk will get his first fist upgrade (becomes a +1 weapon) on level 9, which means he is doomed to play the whole BGEE with his fists as normal weapons. Which means, that for some fights (Karoug, Aec'Letec or certain Slimes) you will have to use a weapon. If that was not the case, I'd have named my guide "I punch Demons" as I tried to beat the crap out of Aec'Letec repeatedly, but to no avail.
++ my own anti-powergaming rules - take the first roll that scores more than 85, only one (primary) attribute can be 18, then one 17, one 16, one 15 and the rest is fair game. Also - no attribute lower than 10. It is unreasonable to think that the protagonist would be able to raise hell and heaven to defeat Sarevok with an Int score of 3 (when he's barely able to speak).
I would advise against it. You don't need 2 monks, just as you don't need 2 Thieves that have the same Locks&Traps skills. Think of the monk as a Fighter/Thief hybrid and mix him with someone else - variety is the spice of life. In BG2EE the monk duo might get very interesting (with their progressing bonuses/immunities and Magical Resistance)
For the record, Southpaw ran with a lot of NPCs during his travels - a lot of times solo, just with Minsc to fetch Dynaheir. Had Safana join for the Pirate's Cave...took Kivan for the Bandit's Camp only etc...
But my stable ending party was Southpaw + Imoen, Neera, Branwen & Dorn (5 total)
I never really read patch notes for the upcoming patches (to not to spoil the surprise) - but I will try the Dark Moon Monk then. Thank you for the notice.
Also, a little question: you say at level 8 your fist dealt 10-19 damage, how is that possible? If I'm not mistaken, at that level they deal 1d10 damage, and there's no way 19 STR gives such a bonus... unless that's for BOTH hits per turn, but in that case I don't see where that 19 comes from, since it's not an even number...
I can't say for the latter parts (6th and 7th chapter, Durlag's Tower is un-doable without a Thief).
I would say - probably doable, yet very challenging as you have no way to disable traps.
Dee has told me, the new patch will bring some nice enhancements to the Dark Moon Monk class so I am going to try to solo the game with him. I can describe that venture afterwards.
Actually, the damage is correct. I can look again when I get to my computer later, but I do have a screenshot here. Strength 19 gives +7 to dmg.
Equipment used: Legacy of Masters Bracers (+1THAC0, +2dmg), Balduran's Cloak, Worn Whispers Boots (+Stealth), +2 Protection Ring, +50% Fire resistance Ring, Belt -3AC against missiles. Str 19, Dex 18. No buffs.
For the record - backup weapons = Dagger of Venom (myyyy precioussss) and Scimitar +2.
EDIT: adding a fully buffed screenshot too - right before punching Sarevok's arse.
Same equipment as above (used Shield and replaced with Green Stone Amulet that was in my inventory before)
Buffs: Potion of 24 strength, Shield, Bless, Potion of Invulnerability, Defensive Harmony, Protection from Evil. Could have buffed myself even a bit more...with DUHM for example (Alas! My monk does not have DUHM. He got Vampiric Touch. That said - a Lawful Good monk with Rasaad's equipment would be even manlier.)
The other thing I'd love would be to have master to grand mastery of unarmed strike available for monks. Late in BG2, monks get lots of attacks without the best THAC0 progression - it leads to a lot of misses, essentially. GM would help that, I think.
Anyway, I played BG2 through with a monk (my only playthrough) and it worked.
Anyway, I once planned a solo run with a monk using BGT, but in the end I never did it, 'cause running around enemies throwing stuff wasn't really my idea of a monk, but I guess there's no other way so I may as well do it. On the other hand I've done it multiple times in BG2, using various mods for different HLA, and it was always very enjoyable.
Just wait for the 9th level, where we will finally get +1 magic fists. (Along with 2.5APR and fist doing 1d12 dmg :-) )
Source: http://playithardcore.com/pihwiki/index.php?title=Baldur's_Gate:_Progression_Charts#Monks
I actually spent only first 3 levels (3000XP) mainly throwing knives. Levels 4 and 5 were partially throwing, partially fisting (uh-huh) and partially using Dagger of Venom. Since level 6 I rarely used anything else than fists.
The bracers are here:
I only wish Beamdog would actually give non-LG monks an opinion to get some good gear in the game. We have to scrape whatever we can...*grumble, grumble*
i guess the dark moon monk's blindness with darts of stunning could nice together
I personally chose daggers out of 3 reasons:
1) Darts indeed have 3 APR, but they do not grant damage bonuses for strength so their damage (1d3 if I'm not mistaken) is really low. The Darts of Stunning and Biting are much better damage-wise, but they are also rare and expensive - which means you probably won't have them on levels 1-3 where you need them the most. Which brings me to
2) Daggers are cheap. Daggers do add damage bonus and have a bit higher base damage (I have never killed a Goblin in one hit with a Dart. With Daggers, yes.) Also, you can get a Dagger+1 as soon as in Candlekeep and Dagger+2 below Nashkel, without any actual fighting.
3) Getting daggers proficiency also means you will be proficient with the Dagger of Venom (aka Magekiller).
They should. Their Thac0 changes every level up to lvl 20.
Just for your information - I am just running a DMM (CHARNAME) + Rasaad (SunSoul monk as of the new patch). Only them so far. Later, I plan to pick up some thief too, but the initial few levels, it will be just them and I am wondering how far they will be able to venture alone.
They both just hit lvl 4. Spent initial levels doing quests around Beregost and Nashkel. Throwing Daggers, now also Darts (with Rasaad) and mostly kiting. They just killed Bassilus without a scratch.
(Nothing 2 explosive potions plus a wand of magic missiles can not handle.)
I am planning to do few things differently - for example use potions more often, get the Claw of Kazgaroth for my DMM. So far, they both look fine. If you don't care about waiting a few days, I can tell you then, how it goes on higher levels for both of these kits. Then, you can decide.
Actually, having just rolled a try-out monk with throwing daggers I've noticed the throwing daggers are quite annoying to use - they have an item weight, stack only 40 at most, and they are expensive compared to any other ammunition and darts. How do you work around this? Run back and forth between the salesman every time? (It takes me around 10 throwing daggers to kill a single xvart..) Do the daggers perhaps fit inside an ammunition box or belt? If so where to find it?
I have a Dexterity score of only 17 and I kill them easily in ~ 2 hits.
Sadly, there are no ammunition boxes in BGEE. Also - as far as I remember, there were magical returning daggers in BG2, which made buying daggers by the bulk obsolete. No such luck in BGEE*. Some weapons/classes are quite neglected in BG1/BGEE. (Talking mainly about monks and daggers)
I actually carry around throwing daggers in large quantities only till around level 5-6. Then, it's easier just to dash to the enemy and pummel him with your fist. I still have some daggers in my quick weapon slot, but rarely really use them.
* I heard, that the BGNPC project mod adds a returning dagger. I loved this mod in vanilla BG as it added a lot of banter between the party members. It was not yet fully ported to BGEE. Maybe when it is, we will get an usable dagger.
How is the Dark Moon Monk in v1.2 anyway? I'm interested in the cold attack ability in particular.
What I remember :
- 1 use every 4 levels (starts with 1 at 1st level) = basically a substitute for the stunning fist.
- Lasts 1round/level (this will probably be capped somewhere...I don't see lvl 30 monks with perma-cold-bonus)
- adds a flat +2 cold damage to your fist attacks. That basically means +4dmg/round at the end of BGEE (lvl 8, 2APR).
I will look into the Sun Soul monk's similar ability - Fire Fists (Fire fisting??) that Rasaad will get soon...which one of them is better of if they are at least similar.
From what I can see now, the difference between DMM and SSM is mostly, that DMM is more focused on melee and defense, SSM is more about offense and has some ranged attacks.
Also the fact that the damage of the other Sun Soul Monk abilities don't really scale with level (or they are capped before BG1 is over). That just makes me feel they will be next to useless later on in BG2 and ToB.
Flaming fists provides an impressive 7 average damage per hit (which, incidentally, is enough to close the gap between Monk damage and GM Fighter damage), and the fact that it's bonus elemental means that it will probably pierce stoneskins. It'd be nice if it was usable more frequently, but when you do use it, it's going to help drop someone fast.
Greater Sun is for once your Monk's AC starts to get really good and you become capable of using them as a tank; popping a fire shield against an opponent with a lot of attacks (or a horde of enemies) is a nice way to boost your damage, and the fire resistance means that if you stack another source on the Monk you can follow their speedy charge into battle with a chaser of fireballs for good measure.
Sun Soulbeam is impressive, not for the damage, but for the long duration AoE Blind. If you set it up with Greater Malison, you have the potential to nullify several enemies, and your Monk has the speed to easily kite those blind enemies indefinitely.
The unfortunate thing about the latter three abilities is that they're all once per day; however, you are essentially getting all three for the price of Quivering Palm, which is a single once per day ability. So instead of having an awesome ability (that can be nullified with a successful save) for one fight a day, you have three awesome abilities (one of which has a save) that you can use all at once or spread out.
The Sun Soul Monk is set up very well to be an opening tank, using the Monk's speed to rush in and grab enemies' attention, then firing off AoE abilities and bunching up enemies for your spellcasters to AoE.