Tons of people 30 and over play and enjoy Baldur's Gate but let's face it, it's pretty much a 10 year olds game.
In terms of content you're right. But the mechanics of BG are too complicated for most 10 year olds.
Most? I would imagine that only special cases would be unable to comprehend the game mechanics at a fundamental level. Geeks over complicate things and dissect the numbers until every possibility has been exhausted.
Of course most 10 year olds can just equip weapons and armor and send the guy to attack enemies, but they probably wouldn't be very successful. Having a deeper understanding of the nuances of the mechanics makes the game much easier and more enjoyable.
I was 10 when i started playing vanilla bg and did exactly that. it took me a while to figure it out. BG has a heck of a learning curve O.o
That's what I did too, but I gave up because I thought the game sucked. I was into Final Fantasy at the time and had never even heard of D&D. It was a few years later that I got interested in D&D and took the time to understand the mechanics and got back into BG.
The ONLY thing wrong that Miley Sirus did, was fail to be sexy. Maybe that's somebodies cup of tea, but she REALLY needs some strength training, a 1st level cleric could turn that skeleton.
The ONLY thing wrong that Miley Sirus did, was fail to be sexy. Maybe that's somebodies cup of tea, but she REALLY needs some strength training, a 1st level cleric could turn that skeleton.
Also that ridiculous hair style during that performance.
The ONLY thing wrong that Miley Sirus did, was fail to be sexy. Maybe that's somebodies cup of tea, but she REALLY needs some strength training, a 1st level cleric could turn that skeleton.
Also that ridiculous hair style during that performance.
it was...interesting. i'll leave it at that. i didn't know what twerking was until i saw the vma video on youtube O.o
Tons of people 30 and over play and enjoy Baldur's Gate but let's face it, it's pretty much a 10 year olds game.
In terms of content you're right. But the mechanics of BG are too complicated for most 10 year olds.
Most? I would imagine that only special cases would be unable to comprehend the game mechanics at a fundamental level. Geeks over complicate things and dissect the numbers until every possibility has been exhausted.
Of course most 10 year olds can just equip weapons and armor and send the guy to attack enemies, but they probably wouldn't be very successful. Having a deeper understanding of the nuances of the mechanics makes the game much easier and more enjoyable.
I was 10 when i started playing vanilla bg and did exactly that. it took me a while to figure it out. BG has a heck of a learning curve O.o
That's what I did too, but I gave up because I thought the game sucked. I was into Final Fantasy at the time and had never even heard of D&D. It was a few years later that I got interested in D&D and took the time to understand the mechanics and got back into BG.
I found that playing Icewind Dale a year or two later after taking a hiatus from BG really got me to understand the mechanics of the IE games (from a less narrative, more a$$-whooping perspective.)
Arguably we're entering a time when TV dramas are being very adult themed without necessarily being vulgar. The Wire, Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones and others depict conflict, criminality, moral dilemmas and more. They do use violence and sexuality as part of their plot, but not usually for thrills and cheap tittilation.
I don't see why this shouldn't be applicable to computer games too.
Arguably we're entering a time when TV dramas are being very adult themed without necessarily being vulgar. The Wire, Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones and others depict conflict, criminality, moral dilemmas and more. They do use violence and sexuality as part of their plot, but not usually for thrills and cheap tittilation.
I don't see why this shouldn't be applicable to computer games too.
This is what I've been trying to articulate.
One last thing about B\being sexy, it's not reaching out for attention. It's about confidence, it's about knowing that you have all of the attention and that every little thing you do is going to blow up in the opposite sexes eyes like a nuclear bomb. What Sirus did was like a clown or a jester in the underdeveloped body of a 14 year old. Gross. She may be declaring her sexuality but I don't think nature has caught up to her ambition.
Somebody said "Jesus and squats". LOL I'll agree wholeheartedly with the later but I'm leaving JC out of this.
Back on subject...
I think nudity should be common place for 18+ rated games. They have to treat the sale of these games like cigarettes, ask for ID or face criminal charges. In the hands of an adult, games with nudity wont hold much shock value in this day and age. In my mind, it's a natural progression that is way behind it's time.
Having your barbarian walk around a bar with topless women may seem very sexist, because the establishment IS very sexist. Just like a strip club is in this very day and age. But that's the magic of RPG's, you can do something about it and receive instant gratification. If you're a woman's rights activist today, you have to spend long hours on the phone trying to negotiate with corrupt law makers and politicians. IN A FANTASY WORLD...your female paladin walks up to the owner of said establishment, pulls his underwear up over his head and has him march around on stage blinded.
The FCC is the main reason why games of this nature have never gotten legs underneath them. Some prude will dictate their art to exhaustive extents. The problem with the FCC is that they view nudity as unhealthy, like it's a gateway drug or some serious threat to our society. Which is just ridiculous.
Arguably we're entering a time when TV dramas are being very adult themed without necessarily being vulgar. The Wire, Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones and others depict conflict, criminality, moral dilemmas and more. They do use violence and sexuality as part of their plot, but not usually for thrills and cheap tittilation.
I don't see why this shouldn't be applicable to computer games too.
Don't get me wrong, I love Game of Thrones, but in my opinion there is loads of gratuitous nudity in that show.
I disagree that nudity should be "commonplace" in an adult orientated setting. In context and as part of character development and plot, and done tastefully then fine.
There are two main varieties of sex currently in games (excluding weird porn-styled mods) - Duke Nukem style "woot! Boobs!" and the Bioware approach of mimicking Hollywood with 30 seconds of naked backs, a kiss, silhouettes or whatever. Hollywood handles sex awfully. They want to include it but are squeamish and never want to produce R-rated films to erode profit margins. If there is going to be sex in game there must be a third way.
I'd argue that violence is a problem in many games. Not because it's shocking, but because it's lazy and easy to do. Using combat to inject fun or tension is fine, but incessant fighting gets boring. Dead Space did it well: the fights were often frantic, brief, tense and well spaced out.
Finding other, non-combat, ways of engaging the player and interacting with the gameworld can be challenging but rewarding. The most adult way of dealing with confrontation is dialogue and compromise.
@Corvino I agree. The fact that I can walk into a house, steal all the stuff in it, and murdur the people and keep adjantis in my group is rather silly.
@lateralus: I will give you the benefit of the doubt, but saying "nudity should be commonplace" is perhaps not the best way to articulate what your trying to say.
Here is an argument for not having adult games: If someone makes a serious, non-vulgar but mature game, then yay for them. But, someone will inevitably misinterpret the game, and think that wildly vulgar games are more politically correct. And make a terrible, sex tape of a game. Games like this will be made, or rather more than already are, and more in the mainstream market. There certainly is a market for such things. It will become more socially acceptable, and adults will play this more. People will become desensitized to vulgarity, as they are becoming to violence. As more people do this, the more it will be in the culture, and the harder it will be to keep it where it should stay. Do we really want a society that is completely desensitized to sex, and violence?
Now someone will argue that that doesn't really happen. It does. What would a parent from the 50's say about parents bringing 5 year olds into Harry potter movies(this happens, and it f*** kids up) or just the Harry poter movies in general. You don't notice it happening because you not noticing is part of it happening.
Now someone says "well, people can seep rat reality from video games. No, they can't. Look around. People can concisely, but it's the subconscious that really effects behavior.
There's my long winded post on the matter
EDIT: this post does not necessary portray my opinions. It is merely a hypothetical argument for augments sake.
@meagloth - Are you saying people aren't already desensitized to sex and nudity? Everyone can easily access all sorts of weird porn online. There is really weird stuff out there, as a natural progression - the 'normal' stuff gets boring and people want more extreme/niche things; that is as desensitized as something can be. It's just something people don't discuss as openly as violence in games. I'd say there is little to no difference; society is already accepting of way more things than 10 or 20 years ago in both categories.
@KidCarnival People are desensitised, yes. Arguably that means that different ways need to be portrayed to show that two characters are in a physical relationship.
Game of Thrones did this well in places. Do we doubt for a second that Ned & Catelyn Stark love each other and have a physical relationship? No. But we never see them have sex. It's done through more subtle means like physical nonsexual contact like embracing, they kiss, and at one point we see them in bed together talking.
Perhaps what games could to do is similar. Dragon Age and Mass Effect had binary states. You talk to people from 1.5 metres away without physical contact. Even when discussing upsetting emotional matters there is no option to put your hand on someone's shoulder to offer physical comfort, as can be natural. You don't hug. But once a certain threshold is reached - boom - sex. Then you're in dialogue mode, fully clothed and at arms length again. You also rarely see other characters touching, even those who're meant to be involved.
I'm not saying that BG:EE now needs a hug animation. Rather that the physical grammar of an adult relationship can mean a lot more than a 2 second flash of flesh.
I find that male nudity is generally used for comedic purposes.
This does seem to be a recent trend in comedies. "This is the End" had quite a bit as well as movies like the Hangover (I dunno I only saw the first one). I missed it when showing nude dudes became such a laugh riot but apparently it's a thing now in movies
I find that male nudity is generally used for comedic purposes.
This does seem to be a recent trend in comedies. "This is the End" had quite a bit as well as movies like the Hangover (I dunno I only saw the first one). I missed it when showing nude dudes became such a laugh riot but apparently it's a thing now in movies
I used to run an adult-themed RPG at Playbyweb.com. As for me, I was disappointed that you can't pick up any of the women in the Undercellars (not even with a male character- bummer!), they are all waiting for someone. Who knew you had to make an appointment three weeks in advance?!
Comments
I don't see why this shouldn't be applicable to computer games too.
One last thing about B\being sexy, it's not reaching out for attention. It's about confidence, it's about knowing that you have all of the attention and that every little thing you do is going to blow up in the opposite sexes eyes like a nuclear bomb. What Sirus did was like a clown or a jester in the underdeveloped body of a 14 year old. Gross. She may be declaring her sexuality but I don't think nature has caught up to her ambition.
Somebody said "Jesus and squats". LOL I'll agree wholeheartedly with the later but I'm leaving JC out of this.
Back on subject...
I think nudity should be common place for 18+ rated games. They have to treat the sale of these games like cigarettes, ask for ID or face criminal charges. In the hands of an adult, games with nudity wont hold much shock value in this day and age. In my mind, it's a natural progression that is way behind it's time.
Having your barbarian walk around a bar with topless women may seem very sexist, because the establishment IS very sexist. Just like a strip club is in this very day and age. But that's the magic of RPG's, you can do something about it and receive instant gratification. If you're a woman's rights activist today, you have to spend long hours on the phone trying to negotiate with corrupt law makers and politicians. IN A FANTASY WORLD...your female paladin walks up to the owner of said establishment, pulls his underwear up over his head and has him march around on stage blinded.
The FCC is the main reason why games of this nature have never gotten legs underneath them. Some prude will dictate their art to exhaustive extents. The problem with the FCC is that they view nudity as unhealthy, like it's a gateway drug or some serious threat to our society. Which is just ridiculous.
There are two main varieties of sex currently in games (excluding weird porn-styled mods) - Duke Nukem style "woot! Boobs!" and the Bioware approach of mimicking Hollywood with 30 seconds of naked backs, a kiss, silhouettes or whatever. Hollywood handles sex awfully. They want to include it but are squeamish and never want to produce R-rated films to erode profit margins. If there is going to be sex in game there must be a third way.
I'd argue that violence is a problem in many games. Not because it's shocking, but because it's lazy and easy to do. Using combat to inject fun or tension is fine, but incessant fighting gets boring. Dead Space did it well: the fights were often frantic, brief, tense and well spaced out.
Finding other, non-combat, ways of engaging the player and interacting with the gameworld can be challenging but rewarding. The most adult way of dealing with confrontation is dialogue and compromise.
@lateralus: I will give you the benefit of the doubt, but saying "nudity should be commonplace" is perhaps not the best way to articulate what your trying to say.
Here is an argument for not having adult games:
If someone makes a serious, non-vulgar but mature game, then yay for them. But, someone will inevitably misinterpret the game, and think that wildly vulgar games are more politically correct. And make a terrible, sex tape of a game. Games like this will be made, or rather more than already are, and more in the mainstream market. There certainly is a market for such things. It will become more socially acceptable, and adults will play this more. People will become desensitized to vulgarity, as they are becoming to violence. As more people do this, the more it will be in the culture, and the harder it will be to keep it where it should stay. Do we really want a society that is completely desensitized to sex, and violence?
Now someone will argue that that doesn't really happen. It does. What would a parent from the 50's say about parents bringing 5 year olds into Harry potter movies(this happens, and it f*** kids up) or just the Harry poter movies in general. You don't notice it happening because you not noticing is part of it happening.
Now someone says "well, people can seep rat reality from video games. No, they can't. Look around. People can concisely, but it's the subconscious that really effects behavior.
There's my long winded post on the matter
EDIT: this post does not necessary portray my opinions. It is merely a hypothetical argument for augments sake.
Game of Thrones did this well in places. Do we doubt for a second that Ned & Catelyn Stark love each other and have a physical relationship? No. But we never see them have sex. It's done through more subtle means like physical nonsexual contact like embracing, they kiss, and at one point we see them in bed together talking.
Perhaps what games could to do is similar. Dragon Age and Mass Effect had binary states. You talk to people from 1.5 metres away without physical contact. Even when discussing upsetting emotional matters there is no option to put your hand on someone's shoulder to offer physical comfort, as can be natural. You don't hug. But once a certain threshold is reached - boom - sex. Then you're in dialogue mode, fully clothed and at arms length again. You also rarely see other characters touching, even those who're meant to be involved.
I'm not saying that BG:EE now needs a hug animation. Rather that the physical grammar of an adult relationship can mean a lot more than a 2 second flash of flesh.
someone already started the naked women appreciation thread
The video game will naturally have a blur option that is gender speciffic.
All I will see are racks.
Hey...this is I-Rack!!!