Assassin with Staff of the Magi vs. Shadowdancer
PugPug
Member Posts: 560
In the original BG2, of course, the at-will invisibility doesn't work without the fixpack mod.
Do you think they'll fix it for BG2:EE, and if so, will there be any reason to play a Shadowdancer once you get HLAs?
Do you think they'll fix it for BG2:EE, and if so, will there be any reason to play a Shadowdancer once you get HLAs?
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Backstabs are relevant only against fairly weak enemies anyway, as anything remotely dangerous is immune (all liches, beholders, mind flayers, golems...). Staff of the Magi can do silly things to be sure, but I'm not sure it's enough of a reason to push balance either way. Also keep in mind that it's very micro-intensive, as you can't actually backstab with the staff; the equipping/unequipping alone takes so much time you'd probably have killed the enemy already if you just right-clicked and went afk...
Take mages. Enemy mages in BG2 are SUPREMELY annoying. So, send your thief in there and chunk them before they have a chance to cast any spells. Boom. Fight just got a lot easier.
CC doesn't fire against stealthed characters unless you've modded it to do so (several difficulty mods include that as a "feature"), or they can see through invisibility/stealth by some means anyway (I mean it's already cheese enough that they start spamming scripted TS if someone stealthed gets within a screen of them, even though in pretty much every case, there's no logical reason for them to know you're coming).
Though ToB areas have an annoying habit of de-stealth/de-cloaking everyone before a fight, even though it's logical that you might want someone to scout ahead or hang back to flank in case some bad happens.
I mean sure...something like a dragon is fine, since they actually have the ability to perceive everything within 60ft of themselves, regardless of visibility or invisibility, due to finely tuned senses. But most other examples of those are just arbitrary deus ex machina.
Normally most of the lichs in the game i kill with an sequence of 2-3 backstabs, give the first one and before the lich turns red i hit hide in shadows button, give the second and before their contingency can be activated i swallow an invisibile potion (if needed) give the third and they hardly will be alive for a fourth.
Lich's have 3 contingency spells (yes, they cheese and spoil the rules) one for enemy on sight, other after passing an low HP % check and a spell Tatoo that the player don't have access but works like a contingency or spell sequence of shorts.
If PnP use different rules i don't know, but ingame they don't see invisible naturally (unlike dragons) and they can be backstabed (unlike most of te dragons in the game).
Then I tried the same thing with Viconia while she had sanctuary active. Same thing. The sanctuary remained active but the lich first used cast time stop and was casting symbol:stun, the death spell, and others at her.
Tried it with a thief while the thief was hidden and the same result.
Edit: For the record I'm not saying Lich's are immune to backstab but most of them can ignore invisibility.
In any event, particularly in TOB, but sometimes before, the ability to sneak attack Mages hasn't always worked out as my #1 strategy. And considering that they are the main PITA that high level (time stop followed by Symbol spells followed by Wail of the Banshee can really mess up your day), you have to have some kind of strategy to deal with them.
But, one thing is area sequence spells, ever lich after become hostile will:
At sight of char name or anything allied to him (party members, summoned creatures) AND AFTER his banter (as all the lichs have a banter before battle) trigger a chain contingency (normally improved mantle, spell trap that is cheesed cos chain contingency shouldn't allow lvl 9 spells and globe of invulnerability).
After become hostile will start to cast continuous (3) true sight, that can be denied with non-detection spell or cloak.
At sight of main char or allies, will cast the following sequence:
Time stop (inside time stop symbol of stun, symbol of death/fear, gate, and will start a casting of meteor swarm that will conclude after the time stop end).
If you interrupt his time stop time by leaving the room where he is (charname and party members must leave the AR of the lich for this work, but summons can stay there) he will not cast the symbols of ... or meteor swarm but will randomly cast gate, power word stun, abi- dalzim horrid wilting, summon djinn (more or less, but not always, in this order). Sometimes they cast wail of banshee, but not often with me at least.
After the time stop, interrupted or not, they cast flesh to stone and desintegrate among other lvl 6/7 spells. after that he will cast other spells that i don't remember anymore.
Obs: if a lich already saw you once, if you leave and reenter the AR of the lich while invisible (and with non-detection cos he will surelly be with true sight activated), he will always cast area effect spells, these will be handled different, normally he cast outside of time stop meteor swarm, gate, wail of banshee, summon djinn.
True sight? I don't think so, buddy...
Shadowdancers? Meh. I prefer straight assassin, myself. My wife enjoyed playing a Shadowdancer in her games but she has a different playing style than I do.
Is cloaks of non detection and lots of invis potions abuse? It's a game mechanic, it's deliberate and players are meant to make use of them.
Does it make things easier for certain classes? Yes. But that doesn't make it abuse. Planning to do so is just metagaming in the same way that buying prot from magic scrolls (or Inquisitors, etc) is. Just because something is effective doesn't mean it's abuse.
Some creatures are innately immune, because they lack any identifiable weak-point to strike for (oozes, golem, incorporeal undead). Others have finely tuned senses (Dragons/some demon or devils/kua-tuo) or can activate spells (casters) that make it impossible or at least much more difficult to sneak up on them, which even if they can't turn to face you, that being on guard makes it impossible to strike accurately enough to land a "backstab", which requires the target to be completely unaware of you so you can line up your attack correctly.
(of note, unlike 3rd edition, 2nd edition Undead can be backstabbed, as they still have significant structural features that can be attacked to weaken them.
The part of the game that is Bull%^$& however, is how prevalent crit immunity is. Pretty much nothing outside of oozes, some golem, and incorporeal undead are supposed to be immune crits.
Everything else is perfectly legit targets for crits, or they're using high level magics to prevent it (8th level spell, or +5 item quality effects that do nothing else).
And an enemy mage is killed by a SINGLE tank in 1 round if spell defenses fail (or are dispelled) without any crits.
By my views, and my personal view i mean, i think helmets shouldn't give immunity to critical, but rather an percentage chance to resist the critical, after all a hit in the head isn't the only place where you can make massive damage.
Easier is one thing - trivial is quite another.