If you spend time to get a good thief, get dual wield. If you get dual wield, invest into Katanas, which are more damaging than 2handed swords and at the same time one handed, and scimitars, which deal pretty decent damage and are one handed too. Both katanas and scimitars are valid thief weapons, and CAN backstab. So, what is the reason again, of backstabbing with a staff? Better to backstab with a one handed two handed sword (katana) and a scimitar in offhand. Invisibility, you say? But thieves got stealth. And if he is a fighter thief with more mastery points... Meh.
You can't backstab with the Staff of the Magi, it's used purely for its on-demand invisibility. When you do backstab, the offhand is irrelevant as are the APR - you can pretty much use anything you have that deals the most damage. The best weapon to backstab with is, ironically, another staff: Staff of the Ram+6. You only get that in ToB of course, before that you can use whatever you have handy. Katanas are certainly a good choice, especially if you're a Kensai->Thief and pop Kai before you backstab...
I'm tired of hearing how backstabbing is useless. Sure, some big enemies are immune to it, but not all of them.
Take mages. Enemy mages in BG2 are SUPREMELY annoying. So, send your thief in there and chunk them before they have a chance to cast any spells. Boom. Fight just got a lot easier.
Enemy mages and thieves are the ONLY humanoid enemies NOT immune to crits... since every enemy cleric/fighter/etc is wearing one (they ARE dirt cheap after all). And an enemy mage is killed by a SINGLE tank in 1 round if spell defenses fail (or are dispelled) without any crits.
Critical and backstab doesn't share the same group of immunity. Any helmet can block a critical hit, but will not block an backstab. Golems are immune to backstab but susceptible to critical hits.
By my views, and my personal view i mean, i think helmets shouldn't give immunity to critical, but rather an percentage chance to resist the critical, after all a hit in the head isn't the only place where you can make massive damage.
huh, I was under the impression that backstab immunity and crit immunity are the same thing Thanks for the correction
The staff of the Ram+4 is better then any other weapon besides the +6 version, and can be gotten fairly easily in early SoA (if ToB is installed), if you're good.
SotR+4 =1d6+10 SotR+6 = 1d6+12, +1d6 pierce (the extra 1d6 isn't multiplied, only the 1d6+12)
Minimum damage always trumps maximum for BS, since it's more consistent. And nothing can touch a guaranteed 11+ minimum damage that can be multiplied.
(That said, I'm fond of backstabing with the Gnasher, prior to getting SotR+4)
I much prefer the implementation of sneak attacks in later editions of D&D to the backstabs in 2E. Having a good opening is one thing, but sneak attacks allow a rogue to continue doing solid damage throughout the fight if positioned correctly.
The rogue with a couple of levels of warrior I used in ToEE was an absolute killing machine, doing more damage than the hard-as-nails Paladin or fireball-chucking mage.
That's the case in 3rd edition/3.5. Not sure about 4th, but I'd assume so. And it just makes logical sense.
Crit and sneak attack (backstab) immunity are all but unheard of in 4e, the idea being that practically everything has a weak point or vulnerability, and the design philosophy being that completely nullifying a character through blanket immunity to their combat shtick is rather unfun.
On topic, the problem with backstabbing in BG is that it's usually an all or nothing affair. Either you can backstab and have the tools (SotM, Invis potions, boots of speed and a hiding place) to chain backstabs together for massive damage, or you can't backstab at all. The problems with the former lead many difficulty mods to hand out immunity like candy. Backstabbing would probably be relatively balanced if it was limited to an opener or something you could set up only 2 or 3 times, but that's difficult to do within the existing rules of BG.
I never liked the way backstabbing was implemented. I think it should have just been "a penchant for sneaky tactics, you deal +5%p damage per hit per class level if you are attacking an enemy that is currently not trying to attack you in melee (aka, they are attacking the tank, they are unaware, you are invisible, they are using a ranged weapon, etc etc). Up to a maximum of 100% bonus, rounded up to the nearest 1HP"
Heck, make it so that classes without sneak attack give +2% per level to the same bonus and round it down instead
Comments
Thanks for the correction
The staff of the Ram+4 is better then any other weapon besides the +6 version, and can be gotten fairly easily in early SoA (if ToB is installed), if you're good.
SotR+4 =1d6+10
SotR+6 = 1d6+12, +1d6 pierce (the extra 1d6 isn't multiplied, only the 1d6+12)
Minimum damage always trumps maximum for BS, since it's more consistent. And nothing can touch a guaranteed 11+ minimum damage that can be multiplied.
(That said, I'm fond of backstabing with the Gnasher, prior to getting SotR+4)
The rogue with a couple of levels of warrior I used in ToEE was an absolute killing machine, doing more damage than the hard-as-nails Paladin or fireball-chucking mage.
On topic, the problem with backstabbing in BG is that it's usually an all or nothing affair. Either you can backstab and have the tools (SotM, Invis potions, boots of speed and a hiding place) to chain backstabs together for massive damage, or you can't backstab at all. The problems with the former lead many difficulty mods to hand out immunity like candy. Backstabbing would probably be relatively balanced if it was limited to an opener or something you could set up only 2 or 3 times, but that's difficult to do within the existing rules of BG.
I think it should have just been "a penchant for sneaky tactics, you deal +5%p damage per hit per class level if you are attacking an enemy that is currently not trying to attack you in melee (aka, they are attacking the tank, they are unaware, you are invisible, they are using a ranged weapon, etc etc). Up to a maximum of 100% bonus, rounded up to the nearest 1HP"
Heck, make it so that classes without sneak attack give +2% per level to the same bonus and round it down instead
And nothing is immune to this bonus.