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Backstabbin' all day all night

DarkDoggDarkDogg Member Posts: 598
edited September 2013 in Archive (General Discussion)
I know, many people underestimate the Hide + Stealth rogue class skills.
Or even don't use them at all, or use them just for scouting purpose.
Putting lock picks, picking pockets, traps on the first place in thief skills progression.
There's also a dilemma about best thiefs in BG.
I like backstabbing, personally I think a thief or a rogue class without a backstab ability isn't even a thief or rogue.
We can use such an ability just in every game - sneak attack in NWN, in DAO, in many MMOs etc.
It's a powerfull attack ability indeed and fun too.
That's why my favourite thief in BG is Montaron (or dualed Shar-Teel for even more damage) and not the weakling Alora for example.
Well, in BG2 we had a weak choice in backstabbers - Yoshimo for a while or Jan who is basicaly more a support unit, not a melee damage dealer. (or is it just me who used him more as a mage in combat rather than a thief?)
What a relief. In BG2EE we'll have the new girl HexCAT.
Just imagine HexCAT a evil assassin girl in human flesh armor backstabbing this, backstabbing that =)

So, do you like backstabbing people for fun and profit or you think it's unfair or to complicated for you to use this ability in the game?
  1. Backstabbin' all day all night95 votes
    1. Yes. I'm a backstabber. Lovin' it!
      58.95%
    2. No. I don't use this ability. Not my style...
      23.16%
    3. It's not worth it. Fireballs are better!
      12.63%
    4. It's too difficult for me hiding and sneaking. I can't backstab ;-(
        5.26%
Post edited by DarkDogg on
FredjoMortiannaJuliusBorisov
«13

Comments

  • Awong124Awong124 Member Posts: 2,643
    My favorite character to play is a backstabbing Fighter/Thief.
    Badmass[Deleted User]JuliusBorisov
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,211
    There's certain scenarios where it's feasible, but most of the time setting up the backstab takes long enough to not actually net any damage compared to straight attacks.
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    I try to start off every fight with a backstab when possible. This whole "the most dangerous enemies are immune to backstab" thing that gets bandied about a lot is rather ridiculous, imo. One-shotting a Wizard before his defenses are up is priceless.
    [Deleted User]lamarosJuliusBorisov
  • DarkDoggDarkDogg Member Posts: 598
    edited September 2013
    I was I bit confused with the new thief kit - shadowdancer and his backstab progression...
    On one hand he has the ability hide in plain sites with the opportunity to hide even if visible by enemies, on the other hand his twice weaker backstab ability. Logic!!!
    They weakened this class before playing it. For sure it's more logical to use a vanilla (or multi) thief or an assassin with a invisibility ring or potions + both of them have great benefits like skill points or +1 damage\attack. And the shadowdancer? His main ability is usable only to avoid damage or flee from combat or if surrounded by enemies...
    +1 saving throws looks poor in that case, IMO!

    It would be HEXCATastrophe if she is a shadowdancer =)

    OK it has been decided! I'll call her HEXCAT!
    Mortianna
  • O_BruceO_Bruce Member Posts: 2,790
    I don't use backstabbing. Completely not my style. Also I disagree on rouges that can't backstab. Mind that not all thieves or rogues have to be a murderers.

    I acknowledge, thought, that many players find backstabs fun.
  • DarkDoggDarkDogg Member Posts: 598
    edited September 2013

    Mind that not all thieves or rogues have to be a murderers.

    I don't think it's just about murder here.
    Hitting someone on the sly or stealing while looking aside...
    Thieves also can't be lawful.
    You know what I mean =)
  • XanarXanar Member Posts: 96
    edited September 2013
    Backstabbing is only murder if you're killing a non-aggro creature imho (i.e. no red circle).

    I try to start off every fight with a backstab when possible. This whole "the most dangerous enemies are immune to backstab" thing that gets bandied about a lot is rather ridiculous, imo. One-shotting a Wizard before his defenses are up is priceless.

    Like Schneidend, I always open with a backstab, normally to whichever caster poses the greatest threat. Chunking a mage or cleric before they get their first spell off rebalances most encounters in my rogue's favor. That doesn't make him evil, it makes him smart.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,315
    edited September 2013
    I prefer to nuke my enemies to death. When that doesn't work I will buff everyone up and throw my mindless automatons...err party members at the enemy.

    Edit: The only exception I make to this is Tarnesh. That guy gets backstabbed for sure.
  • greckoboygreckoboy Member Posts: 33
    It's a bit of a gimmick I think. Not as useful in BG2 since I use the Tactics Mod. Still, I use backstabbing all the time...to be honest I just like seeing the big damage number lol. When I'm not playing a thief I'd give Jan a strength belt and I won't even take it off the whole game.

    I acknowledge, thought, that many players find backstabs fun.

    Yeah, and I'm one of them hahaha
  • MortiannaMortianna Member Posts: 1,356
    DarkDogg said:

    Mind that not all thieves or rogues have to be a murderers.

    I don't think it's just about murder here.
    Hitting someone on the sly or stealing while looking aside...
    Thieves also can't be lawful.
    You know what I mean =)
    Au contraire, thieves can be LN or LE, just not LG.
  • CoryNewbCoryNewb Member Posts: 1,330
    I tend to stay back with my thieves except when there are traps.
  • DarkDoggDarkDogg Member Posts: 598
    Mortianna said:


    Au contraire, thieves can be LN or LE, just not LG.

    My fail.
    Pardon me mademoiselle!
    Mortianna
  • CorvinoCorvino Member Posts: 2,269
    edited September 2013
    Backstab becomes far more valuable when using a damage-over-time weapon like the dagger of venom. Even backstabbing you're not guarateed to 1-shot a caster, but interrupting them for multiple rounds is a godsend.

    *edit* But then, you don't need to backstab to achieve this effect.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited September 2013
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • CutlassJackCutlassJack Member Posts: 493
    Pfft backstabbing. No style at all in that. Its more fun when your enemy sees what's coming and you still make them look bad.

    ...which doesnt mean I don't sneak through the room before that, robbing them blind, laying out traps and otherwise entertaining myself before starting the fun. ;)
  • PibaroPibaro Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 2,989
    Backstabbing rocks on occasion!
  • Awong124Awong124 Member Posts: 2,643
    They call me Captain Stabbin'.
    DarkDogg
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
    JuliusBorisov
  • AlkaluropsAlkalurops Member Posts: 269
    Given how you can't hide if enemies are nearby, to me backstabbing is meta-gaming at its worst. Yeah, I know it's hard to avoid meta-gaming if you're playing BG for the tenth time, but backstabbing is just... ugh...
  • meaglothmeagloth Member Posts: 3,806
    On my first play thorough of bg2 I did the planer sphere WAY before I was a high enough level, and he only reason I could beat the one cowled wizard dude that hides in there was to have imoen and valyagar backstab and Minsc sneak up an kill him In the first 5 seconds, because I did not have any counter-magic spells.
    Backstab saved my life.
    jackjack
  • JarrakulJarrakul Member Posts: 2,029
    I only just discovered it in my last few playthroughs, but Coran + Gauntlets of Ogrepower = backstabby fun. :D
  • XerxesVXerxesV Member Posts: 187
    Erry day I'm backstabbin'

    Monteron once killed Sarevok with the longtooth dagger. Invisibility potions are pretty useful in that final fight. You can kite him and backstab the whole battle.
  • NoonNoon Member Posts: 202
    It is always satisfying to see Imoen or Safana exploding a powerful enemy with a crit backstab.
  • CutlassJackCutlassJack Member Posts: 493
    Noon said:

    It is always satisfying to see Imoen or Safana exploding a powerful enemy with a crit backstab.

    I can think of more satisfying explosions involving Safana and Imoen....

    ...er fireballs, yes fireballs. I'm sure that's what I meant. ahem.

    nano
  • LateralusLateralus Member Posts: 903
    There are few...very, very few things about BG and IWD that are as satisfying as chunking an unsuspecting mage or powerful foe. It is...so good.
    Mortianna
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,975
    when I make a thief I either do 1 of two things; A- make a fighter that grows to level 7 then dual over to a thief and just be a bow user, or B- make a swashbuckler and not be able to backstab anyway, the only time I ever used backstab in bg2 is when you fight one of the duegers on the pedestal traps (when I have my fighter dualed into a thief) I think I have backstabbed that chap for over 100 damage on a crit, bad times for that guy
    XerxesV
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    edited September 2013
    You obviously don't realize the true power of Yoshi and Jan if you deem them weak.

    Jan is the best backstabber in the game, bar none, with only a PC able to surpass him. (This does not include Mislead cheese because I refuse to even learn that spell, let alone cast it).

    Yoshi has near perfect thief stats, only missing out on +1 damage due to 17 vs 18 str, and gets double the traps of a normal thief, which is a perfectly fine trade off.

    He also has 100 MS when you get him, which anyone who's really dug into the stealth mechanics knows, Hide is worthless to put points in, unless you have nothing else to stick points in (what little you get from stats/base/items is all you need), while MS is all you actually need. Meaning he can immediately stealth well, and has good enough locks/traps/set traps to get by until you can put a few levels into each (I usually prioritize Set trap, since his disarm trap is fine, and his Open lock is as good as Imeons but can be raised later).


    @Alkalurops
    Or you know, just use good party protocols of having a scout move ahead of the party. By BG2, your group are supposed to be around level 10...far above even career trained soldiers, and you'd think would have picked up a few good exploration practices by that point.

    Scouting ahead allows for you to formulate a plan of attack or simply by-pass encounters, or or getting the lay of the land to find the best spot to set up a trap, and then make an ambush attack on a choice target and lead the group in the trap, which now the rest of your party can jump them.

    Or have the scout move away from the party and around the outskirts, while your party mates charge in to distract the enemy and move in for a powerful surprise attack from the flanks on a tougher enemy.
    JuliusBorisov
  • FrozenCellsFrozenCells Member Posts: 385
    I like backstabbing in general but I have issues with its implementation. It's very repetitive, the AI can't really deal with it, and there are nonsensical crit-immune characters purely there to stop you from trivialising what is supposed to be a challenging fight with backstabby cheese. The Boots of Speed and Cloak of Non-detection make you virtually unbeatable for the majority of the stuff you face and I think that's probably the biggest issue. A thief can be fun to play with e.g. you scout out a group, go back, lay a trap, lure them in, backstab the spellcaster and finish the rest off with poison darts etc. but why bother when you can just run behind a corner and stealth and come back to backstab infinitely? Or quaff a bunch of invisibility potions and chain backstab after backstab? Meh.
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    edited September 2013
    Yeah...in PnP, you generally only get ONE BS per encounter...or less, if the enemy spots you before landing it, since once the group knows there's a sneak-attacker about, they'll keep themselves on guard while fighting, which prevents backstabs.

    Though on the other hand, you can backstab with ANY melee weapon in PnP (PnP Assassins can literally be proficient in any weapon, even exotic weapons not normally available to that setting with DM approval, representing their own ingenuity for creating a new and unexpected weapon type to carry out their kills with).

    BG's system is a decent work around. They limited you to a select few BSing weapons, but if you desire, can attempt multiple backstabs, if you have the means to rehide.

    Running around a corner is actually specifically mentioned to be one of the few ways a PnP thief can attempt another BS, but requires them to hide and wait for the target to lower their guard.
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