I voted: It's too difficult for me hiding and sneaking. I can't backstab ;-(
It would really like to be a badass backstabbe. I love it when, the few times i succeded, i make a backstab x3 crit. However for me that is just to rare. The thief almost always just become visible and miss the backstab. After too many failed attempts I just dont do it anymore.
Open locks? I can Knock. Disarm traps? I can get rid of them sending some fool forth (what other purpose could Anomen possibly serve, anyway). Set traps? No, thanks, skull traps are funnier anyway. So, logically, the majority of skill points goes to Move Silently and the enemies are unexpectedly chunked all the time! A thief with 20+ strength (easily achieved with items, magic or potions) armed with a decent weapon and masterful in its usage is virtually unstoppable. Especially having access to invisibility magics...
I find the critical-backstab-splatter one of the most satisfying things in the game, especially when it's against other backstabbers! As Xzar would say, "Doesn't it just...warm the cockles?" ^.^
You obviously don't realize the true power of Yoshi and Jan if you deem them weak.
Yeah yeah. Just revive him back to life, then we'll talk
There's actually one thing I've forgotten - Valygar. Well, not the best backstabber with his backstabbing progression but quite nice to have such a guy on your side.
Talking about BG1 - for sure Montaron is the best backstabber + thief or direct fighter. Since he can wear heavy armor + helmet. If you need something to lockpick or find a trap - just change clothes. Profit!
I like to scout ahead, more than I do backstab. Stealth is thus primarily used to survey the enemy and map the surrounding area. If the option is available, I may look to set up a snare or two. It's the ability to see what is ahead and formulate a plan on how to best approach that appeals most.
I recall using a Swashbuckler to scout ahead and on occasion strike from the shadows. Sure, they lack backstab, but they can still close the distance unseen, and get in a free attack or two before the enemy can react.
Always do, since I personally feel they should have stayed the course of their original plan for the story.
Imeon dies in Spellhold (would also conveniently fix the issue with Imeon being a revivable bhaalspawn), and Yoshi can be revived once you break the Geas on his soul, and if you want can give him the chance to redeem/revenge himself by helping you kill Irenicus and further your quest.
Starting a fight with a backstab is usually quite fun, but it can also be extremely risky. In certain situations it's even so risky that I'd deem it unrealistic that the rogue/thief would go ahead on his own and open the battle by drawing all the attention to himself.
For me, the most fun way to utilize backstabbing is to send the rogue/thief ahead and beyond the enemy party, and then start the battle without him. Then I decide when and where to send in the backstabber depending on how the battle evolves. Usually the backstab is still spent quite early - for example to stop an enemy spellcaster from casting a potentially deadly spell - but sometimes the backstab isn't spent at all, and the rogue/thief continues scouting ahead while the rest of the party finishes the battle.
When I first played the game, I didn't really do any backstabbing, and had no idea how powerful it was, mainly due to the fact that my only thief was Imoen, and she has like 4 strength ^^
I think I backstabbed once with her and hit for 2 damage and was like, 'wow, what's the point?'
Even still I kind of prefer using stealth for scouting and launching fireballs, since fireballs are easy to replenish (wands, necklaces, arrows, scrolls, spell slots, etc.), while it's a bit harder with potions of invisibility and the higher tier strength potions, which I usually use mostly for hard battles or for fun before a game reload.
The shadowdancer with a cloak of non-detection should supposedly be invincible. Perhaps this is a mistake. It would take long times to progress though anything, and would be highly redundant. It wouldn't make much gameplay.
Using a regular thief, particularly a mixed class, or assassin makes a much more involved tactic method. An assassin regularly does 140+ damage in a strike, and poisons spell users before they are ready. That, and a scouting ability lets heavy preparation, and powerful attacks be readied.
Unfortunately, many of the more powerful opponents are immune to backstab, and the thief's melee abilities are useless. Oddly, it would seem like a better approach for dealing with a dragon. Without a change in balance for it's usefulness in the more critical encounters, it's probably more effective to have another class, and only a trap disarming and lock picking thief along.
@Lord_Tansheron - I agree. I just think that making the first single-class (evil) thief in the game unable to backstab kills part of the fun. Also, for some reason I thought Swashbucklers got a penalty to thieving skills points when I wrote the post.
Her being evil isn't a given either at this point. The only thing we know about her currently is she steals artifacts for her unknown boss. That makes her sound more thief than assassin, so Swashie is really the only kit that doesn't have thief skill penalties.
Certainly Shadowdancer would be more colorful/fun, but she'd really take a hit in the non-stealth skills which might be a problem.
Her being evil isn't a given either at this point. The only thing we know about her currently is she steals artifacts for her unknown boss. That makes her sound more thief than assassin, so Swashie is really the only kit that doesn't have thief skill penalties.
Certainly Shadowdancer would be more colorful/fun, but she'd really take a hit in the non-stealth skills which might be a problem.
Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if she's an assassin or shadowdancer, but has a personal magic item that bolsters her thieving skills in order to make it work.
Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if she's an assassin or shadowdancer, but has a personal magic item that bolsters her thieving skills in order to make it work.
Funny, I'm expecting the reverse. That she'll be a pure thief with some extra abilites to make her unique. For example, if she works for a vampire/god/whatever, that might come with 'perks.' Because that will give her the most utility and usefuless to any party.
Her being evil isn't a given either at this point. The only thing we know about her currently is she steals artifacts for her unknown boss. That makes her sound more thief than assassin, so Swashie is really the only kit that doesn't have thief skill penalties.
Certainly Shadowdancer would be more colorful/fun, but she'd really take a hit in the non-stealth skills which might be a problem.
Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if she's an assassin or shadowdancer, but has a personal magic item that bolsters her thieving skills in order to make it work.
...I think there were some rings in BG2/ToB to boost your Open Locks and Traps skills (+20% or something similar) To have at least one of those in BGEE would be a godsend for Assassins or Shadow Dancers early game. (When the mages get Evermemory, why can't we get something nifty to help us?)
Funny. I use (almost) all the time that combat/abilities style (lightness/stealth/quick BS/etc) in almost every other 'real time' fantasy or not (DAs, skyrim, fallouts, even diablo-likes etc too) ) 'RPG' games.. but almost never in BGs. Maybe because my main beloved 'discovered' class in BGs is bard blades - to get quick fights possibilities +magic at the same time, less needed to focussed on that pure stealth style too.. though kinda similar (quickness/lightness).. who knows? blades are kinda bolder, certainly.. i should use it more with the other party thieves though.. agreed)
...I think there were some rings in BG2/ToB to boost your Open Locks and Traps skills (+20% or something similar) To have at least one of those in BGEE would be a godsend for Assassins or Shadow Dancers early game. (When the mages get Evermemory, why can't we get something nifty to help us?)
As a Swashbuckler, I'm happy the Boots of Stealth can be gotten extremely early. Lets me focus my points on Pick Pocket in the early game while still enjoying a bit of sneaky. I use Imoen &Safana as a Lock/Trap magic item in the early game.
But an item for those skills, even at +10% would free up group options considerably for Assassins & Shadow Dancers.
Comments
It would really like to be a badass backstabbe. I love it when, the few times i succeded, i make a backstab x3 crit. However for me that is just to rare. The thief almost always just become visible and miss the backstab. After too many failed attempts I just dont do it anymore.
So, logically, the majority of skill points goes to Move Silently and the enemies are unexpectedly chunked all the time! A thief with 20+ strength (easily achieved with items, magic or potions) armed with a decent weapon and masterful in its usage is virtually unstoppable. Especially having access to invisibility magics...
There's actually one thing I've forgotten - Valygar. Well, not the best backstabber with his backstabbing progression but quite nice to have such a guy on your side.
Talking about BG1 - for sure Montaron is the best backstabber + thief or direct fighter. Since he can wear heavy armor + helmet. If you need something to lockpick or find a trap - just change clothes. Profit!
I recall using a Swashbuckler to scout ahead and on occasion strike from the shadows. Sure, they lack backstab, but they can still close the distance unseen, and get in a free attack or two before the enemy can react.
Always do, since I personally feel they should have stayed the course of their original plan for the story.
Imeon dies in Spellhold (would also conveniently fix the issue with Imeon being a revivable bhaalspawn), and Yoshi can be revived once you break the Geas on his soul, and if you want can give him the chance to redeem/revenge himself by helping you kill Irenicus and further your quest.
For me, the most fun way to utilize backstabbing is to send the rogue/thief ahead and beyond the enemy party, and then start the battle without him. Then I decide when and where to send in the backstabber depending on how the battle evolves. Usually the backstab is still spent quite early - for example to stop an enemy spellcaster from casting a potentially deadly spell - but sometimes the backstab isn't spent at all, and the rogue/thief continues scouting ahead while the rest of the party finishes the battle.
I think I backstabbed once with her and hit for 2 damage and was like, 'wow, what's the point?'
Even still I kind of prefer using stealth for scouting and launching fireballs, since fireballs are easy to replenish (wands, necklaces, arrows, scrolls, spell slots, etc.), while it's a bit harder with potions of invisibility and the higher tier strength potions, which I usually use mostly for hard battles or for fun before a game reload.
I use backstab a fair bit. A good trick is to open up with a backstab from Valygar then follow up with one from Jan. Splatter time.
It would take long times to progress though anything, and would be highly redundant. It wouldn't make much gameplay.
Using a regular thief, particularly a mixed class, or assassin makes a much more involved tactic method. An assassin regularly does 140+ damage in a strike, and poisons spell users before they are ready. That, and a scouting ability lets heavy preparation, and powerful attacks be readied.
Unfortunately, many of the more powerful opponents are immune to backstab, and the thief's melee abilities are useless. Oddly, it would seem like a better approach for dealing with a dragon. Without a change in balance for it's usefulness in the more critical encounters, it's probably more effective to have another class, and only a trap disarming and lock picking thief along.
*exaggeration
@DarkDogg
Certainly Shadowdancer would be more colorful/fun, but she'd really take a hit in the non-stealth skills which might be a problem.
To have at least one of those in BGEE would be a godsend for Assassins or Shadow Dancers early game.
(When the mages get Evermemory, why can't we get something nifty to help us?)
Or you could be talking about Ring of Danger Sense, because Mercykiller Ring only gives a bonus to stealth and Set Snares.
But an item for those skills, even at +10% would free up group options considerably for Assassins & Shadow Dancers.