Maybe only the book icon on known spells, while keeping other scrolls clean. To avoid cluttering every scroll icon. Its also easier to spot the known-status if there no icon at all on other scrolls.
I've been playing the beta and am starting to like the green coloring. I think it stands out and you instantly see if it is scribe able or not (without having to open the spell or search the spell book every time). However I think it should be colored only when you do NOT have it in your spell book and are able to scribe it instead of the way they have it now.
I don't like the first grey choice because it screams it is not available. In the computer world something is greyed out if it is not available/applicable and I would think that would cause confusion to new players. I worry that the light green option may be too similar in color to the blue which indicates something is not identified (yeah I know I chose that option but the original green was not a choice).
Whatever the colour or icon we land on in the end, I think it should be optional for each player. Personally I agree with @Mortianna in that a colour telling me what spells I know is unnecessary (and frankly an annoyance), even if I have three or four spellcasters. Probably being in the minority I have to accept the change anyway.
Sorry for what might seem like advertising myself, but I think implementing More Options (thread) to the game could make more (if not all) players more agreeable to new features and changes (like the green highlight).
However I think it should be colored only when you do NOT have it in your spell book and are able to scribe it instead of the way they have it now.
One thing I realized when checking this feature out in a saved game where Baeloth is in my party is that the mage and the sorcerer are on opposite ends of this. The mage wants unwritten spells highlighted because eventually he's going to have them all in his spellbook. The sorcerer doesn't want that, because his limited "spellbook" means that he's unlikely to ever have less highlighted scrolls than not (and it's much more useful for him to carry scrolls for spells he doesn't know than for spells he does). Which is why, unless they can somehow separate this system out between mages and sorcerers, I think it might be better to go with something less obtrusive than a full icon highlight.
I really like the suggestion of having spells that the caster doesn't know yet get a green background : It's pretty logical, since the current information that is missing is : "Is that new spell I just looted a spell that I already know ?"
I really like the suggestion of having spells that the caster doesn't know yet get a green background : It's pretty logical, since the current information that is missing is : "Is that new spell I just looted a spell that I already know ?"
Yup... I couldn't have said it better myself! (Actually, I didn't know how to say it exactly). So thanks for the explanation I was searching for!
My description of this community: A think tank of possibilities and reasoning!
IMHO colors instead of icons will be much better, but instead of using BG's full backgrounds EE should use IWD's coloured frame for both unusable, unidentified and known.
Whatever the colour or icon we land on in the end, I think it should be optional for each player. Personally I agree with @Mortianna in that a colour telling me what spells I know is unnecessary (and frankly an annoyance), even if I have three or four spellcasters. Probably being in the minority I have to accept the change anyway.
@Basillicum Never underestimate the power of the vocal minority. ^ ^
Okay, so I just spent a kajillion hours in MSPaint recoloring the "player ready" checkmark in multiplayer to use to say "you don't have this spell; you should scribe it." Just keep in mind that I'm not a sprite artist.
On bottom is a checkmark, justified left or right. On top is a slightly smaller version of it in the same positions.
Would anyone prefer this over a highlighted background? Totally optional of course.
The green icon is... how shall I put this... ugly? Don't get me wrong, I kind of like the idea of using an icon instead of a color (as outlined in my previous posts), but I'll go for a different icon...
I like the scroll icon that shows the mage book to indicate it has been memorized. It's large enough and obvious enough for me and presumably 99% of all players to quickly interpret.
I don't like color scheme changes of the scroll icons because (playing dumb here) it's much less obvious, at first glance, what the color means. And the book fits with the already existing icon used in gameplay. Not to mention that spell types already use different colors to identify their attributes. Changing colors again could confuse the issue.
I think the current colour in the beta is fine as a background. I would prefer it if the colour did not also cover the scroll as some colour combinations make the more intricate designs quite indistinct. As I frequently play late in the evening, anything which strains my eyes is bad news and can lead to more than the normal errors of judgement.
I think we'll be removing the color filter for this patch. We can continue to explore options, but until we come up with a solution that pleases everybody we'd rather not alienate any players.
@Dee: If I may... Even though not perfect, I do like it a LOT more then the original! For shopping for spells, it's a MUST for me... So, if it has to be removed, please just put it as an option... Even if I reported the thing (and made a poll even), I like it FAR MORE then the original (aka nothing different between written and unwritten).
This is a must-have feature, I've been dreaming about something like this since 2001. However I consider the icon-based marking on the learned scrolls the most elegant and logical way to do this: IMHO Drakelores "check" symbol is just about right for the job. Spellbook icon would be fine too.
But if the color based approach would be used, it should really be the unlearned spells, that are colored. It would follow the current logic of colored inventory items: colored state is always used to tell the player, that something should be done to the item: if it's red, it should be redistributed to someone able to use it. If it's blue, it should be identified. The target is always to get the item to its natural, uncolored state. In the case of a scroll this would be accomplished by learning it.
@djc: I'm with you for the unlearned spell approach... I dunno about the "check" however... Even though like some people said before (like myself), the green "toxic" tone might be a little overdone... But we are here, in this topic/poll for ideas on how to make the game better, right?
I'm unsure about which colour or which graphic I would prefer. I am certain, though, that it is better to earmark "unknown" spells as opposed to "known". The amount of spells a character is going to "know" shall multiply as the game continues. It would scream clutter to see every scroll sporting an extra graphic, or a new colour, for the duration of the adventure. It would be much less bothersome to see a diminishing number of spells with a temporary earmark as the game progresses.
All things said, it has never been too much trouble to remember which spells are scribed, and which are not, as well as which are currently available to cast from a scroll.
Agreed : Even if the graphic isnt perfect yet please give us an option to mark each unknown spell by adding a line in the .ini file that enables / disables said option (disabled by default)
My sword is yours, @Aranthys : .ini toggle would be fine for now. However this feature should be made as default, once the best way to present it visually has been determined. These kind of additions really enhance the game.
@Aranthys Thank you. I've been trying to suggest making more stuff optional so that anyone that is potentially aliented also can set their own preferences, but so far it doesn't seem like very many see it as an option to make things optional.
I find myself always forgetting if green means known or unknown.
A minimalistic check-mark (meaning of symbol registers quickly in the brain) for known spells *or* a color overlay for unknown spells (consistency with unidentified item overlay). Either would work.
As a graphic designer, I think one of the main drawbacks of these mock-ups is that they paint the entire thing with with a stale, washed out look.
It's my opinion that the "known" spell effect should not interfere with the original icon of the spell, but rather very lightly alter the border around it.
Here's my 2 minute mock-up, with the changes I like made on the right.
I've got 5 type of background and I'm sure others will want some more but it's just for an example... (It's a pain the poll entries cannot be edited, I'd remove the direct links)
Has to be 1 or 2. The other colours do not indicative of "unknown". It wouldn't make sense to pick others. I think 1 is the most indicative colour.
So far I like the suggestion of a tiny question or check mark in one of the top corners the most. Personally I would disable this feature if it colored the background or entire icon.
I really like the suggestion from @Infiltrator for the green box. I'd also like to make a suggestion of my own.
I saw it mentioned earlier that every other color scheme can be "fixed" in some way. If an item is unusable, the color will go away once it becomes usable. If an item is unidentified, that too will go away once it is identified. If an spell is unknown BY A MAGE, a light shade of green is perfect, which will obviously go away once the spell is learned.
What about sorcerer's? They're a different class completely, but can still cast spells. It would certainly be nice to quickly know what spells they already have in their book, but with that said, we don't want an entire inventory painted with green. My suggestion is that for sorcerer's, nothing is shaded and instead you use the small unobtrusive check mark. Since they can't learn the spell anyway, it makes more sense to me that a sorcerer would want to know what they have available and not what they do not. This quickly let's you know what spells you have in your sorcerer's spell book without having a glaring notification on every scroll you come across throughout the entire game.
So a light shade of green for mages if the spell IS NOT known and a small unobtrusive check mark in one of the corners for sorcerer's if the spell IS known. I think that would appease just about everyone who seemed to have an issue with it one way or the other, right?
And the spell should appear in an annoyingly bright mixture of pink, blue, and yellow for thieves who have obtained the UAI ability.
Personally, I want the background colour to really be a BACKground colour. The color should appear behind the scroll and not all over it, obsecuring the whole icon. The colours red (unable to learn) and green (already known) are fine as is. Maybe add blue for "being able to learn"?
Just make sure they appear behind the icon, or atleast around it. Not over it.
So a light shade of green for mages if the spell IS NOT known and a small unobtrusive check mark in one of the corners for sorcerer's if the spell IS known.
For a small unobtrusive check mark for the sorcerer, I would actually like to cast my vote for the suggestion made by @Alkalurops with the small spell symbol in the upper left corner. It's almost as if it is saying, "Hey! If you click the button that looks exactly like this, you too can cast this spell!"
Comments
I don't like the first grey choice because it screams it is not available. In the computer world something is greyed out if it is not available/applicable and I would think that would cause confusion to new players. I worry that the light green option may be too similar in color to the blue which indicates something is not identified (yeah I know I chose that option but the original green was not a choice).
Sorry for what might seem like advertising myself, but I think implementing More Options (thread) to the game could make more (if not all) players more agreeable to new features and changes (like the green highlight).
My description of this community: A think tank of possibilities and reasoning!
http://i.imgur.com/QhHEbsX.png
based on the other people ideas.
Don't get me wrong, I kind of like the idea of using an icon instead of a color (as outlined in my previous posts), but I'll go for a different icon...
Quoting the Phase III thread I'd put the icon in the top-left corner, but other than that I prefer this option.
I don't like color scheme changes of the scroll icons because (playing dumb here) it's much less obvious, at first glance, what the color means. And the book fits with the already existing icon used in gameplay. Not to mention that spell types already use different colors to identify their attributes. Changing colors again could confuse the issue.
But if the color based approach would be used, it should really be the unlearned spells, that are colored. It would follow the current logic of colored inventory items: colored state is always used to tell the player, that something should be done to the item: if it's red, it should be redistributed to someone able to use it. If it's blue, it should be identified. The target is always to get the item to its natural, uncolored state. In the case of a scroll this would be accomplished by learning it.
All things said, it has never been too much trouble to remember which spells are scribed, and which are not, as well as which are currently available to cast from a scroll.
Even if the graphic isnt perfect yet please give us an option to mark each unknown spell by adding a line in the .ini file that enables / disables said option (disabled by default)
A minimalistic check-mark (meaning of symbol registers quickly in the brain) for known spells *or* a color overlay for unknown spells (consistency with unidentified item overlay).
Either would work.
It's my opinion that the "known" spell effect should not interfere with the original icon of the spell, but rather very lightly alter the border around it.
Here's my 2 minute mock-up, with the changes I like made on the right.
I saw it mentioned earlier that every other color scheme can be "fixed" in some way. If an item is unusable, the color will go away once it becomes usable. If an item is unidentified, that too will go away once it is identified. If an spell is unknown BY A MAGE, a light shade of green is perfect, which will obviously go away once the spell is learned.
What about sorcerer's? They're a different class completely, but can still cast spells. It would certainly be nice to quickly know what spells they already have in their book, but with that said, we don't want an entire inventory painted with green. My suggestion is that for sorcerer's, nothing is shaded and instead you use the small unobtrusive check mark. Since they can't learn the spell anyway, it makes more sense to me that a sorcerer would want to know what they have available and not what they do not. This quickly let's you know what spells you have in your sorcerer's spell book without having a glaring notification on every scroll you come across throughout the entire game.
So a light shade of green for mages if the spell IS NOT known and a small unobtrusive check mark in one of the corners for sorcerer's if the spell IS known. I think that would appease just about everyone who seemed to have an issue with it one way or the other, right?
And the spell should appear in an annoyingly bright mixture of pink, blue, and yellow for thieves who have obtained the UAI ability.
Just make sure they appear behind the icon, or atleast around it. Not over it.