Good VS Evil Party.

Skullburn

Hey!

Its really a random and "What's your opinion?" post.

I've always played Good party. So high reputation, no killing innocent, did some stealing... thats about it.

What is the fun of Evil party? I want to konw! I plan on play Evil on BGII.
The only thing i remember is if you kill an innocent all the fucking people turn hostile to you in this area.

CoM_Solaufein

The game is geared for neutral to good parties. There really isn't any benefit of doing the game playing evil.

shawne

Except that the Evil NPCs are the most powerful in the game.

KidCarnival

The NPCs and, for the heck of it, seeing the few alternative quest outcomes where you can pick an evil option (i.e. flood Cloakwood Mines with all slaves inside). And for the entire saga, the Golden Pantaloons are best used in a rather evil way in BG2...

Killing innocents doesn't neccessarily turn guards hostile, only if you kill too many. I only kill a random commoner if my rep got too high (14 is my house rule max) to adjust it to appropriate levels for evil. Plus you can get creative with charms to kill certain innocents without rep loss, just for the fun/loot of it. Oublek has a lot experience with that.

SionIV

shawne said:

Except that the Evil NPCs are the most powerful in the game.

Pretty much this.

1.) The evil NPC's are much more powerful.

2.) The good playthroughs give you better rewards, more experience and even more gold in the long run.

So in the end it kind of evens out.

the_spyder

Top 5 reasons to play evil

5. Viconia
4. Edwin and the quest to kill the annoying Dynaheir
3. Flooding the mines with the slaves (and Quayle) in it
2. Tiax Rules ALL!!!

And the Number 1 top reason to play Evil is

……

1. You get to Kill Noober without a guilty conscience.

Sed

And I thought killing Noober was a good thing?!

mackos

Top benefits to play as evil for me:

1 Viconia
2 Edwin
3 Kagain (now with dex gauntlets and str belt is even better - 19 18 20 warrior with high saving throws)
4 Beleoth

And i'm always killing drizzt - his scimitars suits well on my swashbuckler level 5 dualled to warrior level 8 with 3 points in 2 weapon style 5 on scimitars and 100% detect illusion(SCS) all in bg 1 ^^ He is my favourite charname for bg1ee

Besides that playing as evil team is limited to kill innocent commoners when your rep rises to much

Corvino

BG2 has more evil, smarmy and mercenary dialogue and quest options, which does make it easier to play an evil party than BG1. Good options still tend to give the best loot and XP though.

Killing innocents is often a recipe for disaster though. Burglary and taking evil quest options is the way to go.

Eudaemonium

BG is clearly built around playing the hero. This is fairly obvious from the direction Bioware took their later games, where it is essentially almost impossible to *not* be a hero, albeit sometimes a morally grey one. Playing evil thus in some sense gives one the kind of kick one gets from deliberately going against the grain.

I started off Good-aligned, though I probably played closer to Neutral. I slowly turned to the dark side as I gradually realised that my parties were largely composed of exclusively Evil-aligned people. Edwin was my favourite character the moment I met him, and Viconia quickly became my go-to Cleric in BG1. I have no idea why. After that I just realised that I must just want to be evil in my heart, so I started rolling evil Charnames. Mostly, the party members just appeal to me more on an interest/personal level, though I have a soft spot for characters like Keldorn and Mazzy (the latter whom I spent pretty-much all my initial BG2 run with, up to ToB).

I guess that much like Crowley from Pratchett and Gaiman's Good Omens, I was an angel who did not so much 'fall' as 'saunter vaguely downwards'.

dib

CoM_Solaufein said:

The game is geared for neutral to good parties. There really isn't any benefit of doing the game playing evil.

If you truly roleplay a good guy, i.e. not killing anyone except in self defense and always try to talk people out of fights when possible, not breaking in to anyone's home, not stealing anything and not doing any quests that seem morally ambiguous, then the rewards are not at all as many as playing an evil character I think.

zur312

good bringing dead bodies to temples
evil making dead bodies

also if you have low rep you will be chased by flaming fist/mercaneries so it must be fun

CoryNewb

I enjoyed my good cannon play through more because it suits me. But I like the banter of the evil NPCs more.

enqenq

I haven't tried playing evil in BG1 but I have in BG2. It wasn't terribly long ago considering the game's age, but I recall reading a post before that (and that _was_ long ago) about the game being harsh on you if you're truly evil and the key is being "sneaky" evil. Well, it's not. The key is dedication!

In BG2 the reputation hit can be a real nutbuster, so I do recommend staying "sneaky" evil until you've bought some choice items at a reasonable price. But once you're confident about your party's strength, go nuts being evil. Drop that rep as deep as you can.

Because when your rep is absolutely terrible, you can't walk the streets of Athkatla for a minute without a law enforcement party warping in to kick your ass. As I recall, they consist of 2 cowled wizards and 6 fighters of some sort. The wizards can drop high level spell scrolls (if memory serves) just like the ones coming to kill you if you use magic in public. The fighters each drop a full plate mail, and these babies sell for [something significant that i apparently cant remember]. Plus you get a bit of exp for the kills. And the authorities never get tired of sending them!

So what's the downside to being evil, huh? Ain't economy. Ain't exp. Ain't rare spell scrolls - wait, that's not even a benefit for being good. And if you tire of killing these parties, just walk away before they can start talking.

In conclusion, from a powergaming PoV there's no reason to not be evil. Admittedly you're gonna be selling a lot of full plate mails (and they're heavy to lug around) to buy an item when your reputation is 1 (or 0, however far it drops), but I could live with that; my evil party was handmade, with many fighters. However from an RP PoV maybe it's not right for an evil party to do certain quests at all, but perhaps you could motivate it with building hope just to destroy it. But don't let the reputation system hold you back from being evil if you wish it.

Also there's no shame about it. Most PC's end up acting Neutral Evil anyway (surmised from that IWD2 exp tome), doing everything that gains them power or money without antagonizing anyone. Looting homes, killing friendly NPC's because no one else will care and they have good loot, etc.

SionIV

enqenq said:

I haven't tried playing evil in BG1 but I have in BG2. It wasn't terribly long ago considering the game's age, but I recall reading a post before that (and that _was_ long ago) about the game being harsh on you if you're truly evil and the key is being "sneaky" evil. Well, it's not. The key is dedication!

In BG2 the reputation hit can be a real nutbuster, so I do recommend staying "sneaky" evil until you've bought some choice items at a reasonable price. But once you're confident about your party's strength, go nuts being evil. Drop that rep as deep as you can.

Because when your rep is absolutely terrible, you can't walk the streets of Athkatla for a minute without a law enforcement party warping in to kick your ass. As I recall, they consist of 2 cowled wizards and 6 fighters of some sort. The wizards can drop high level spell scrolls (if memory serves) just like the ones coming to kill you if you use magic in public. The fighters each drop a full plate mail, and these babies sell for 6k. Plus you get a bit of exp for the kills. And the authorities never get tired of sending them!

So what's the downside to being evil, huh? Ain't economy. Ain't exp. Ain't rare spell scrolls - wait, that's not even a benefit for being good. And if you tire of killing these parties, just walk away before they can start talking.

In conclusion, from a powergaming PoV there's no reason to not be evil. Admittedly you're gonna be selling a lot of full plate mails (and they're heavy to lug around) to buy an item when your reputation is 1 (or 0, however far it drops), but I could live with that; my evil party was handmade, with many fighters. However from an RP PoV maybe it's not right for an evil party to do certain quests at all, but perhaps you could motivate it with building hope just to destroy it. But don't let the reputation system hold you back from being evil if you wish it.

Also there's no shame about it. Most PC's end up acting Neutral Evil anyway (surmised from that IWD2 exp tome), doing everything that gains them power or money without antagonizing anyone. Looting homes, killing friendly NPC's because no one else will care and they have good loot, etc.

1.) I have no idea what version of the game you're playing if a full plate sell for 6K.

2.) You can pickpocket the rare scrolls from normal guards, and get them from summoning cowled wizards.

3.) You get more experience from playing as good, thanks to quests rewards and such. And no it's silly to say you get more experience as evil thanks to farming city guards.

4.) It's fun to fight the guards the first few times, but after that it gets bothersome and i wouldn't play an evil party with reputation under 6.

5.) You also end up giving up some of the most powerful items in the game (Carsomyr, Purifier) and you get the Human Skin leather armor, but it really doesn't compare in power to the two above mentioned even if it's good.

6.) Evil parties can't have an inquisitor.

7.) Your turn undead sucks, sadly.

shawne

@SionIV: At a certain point, though, experience becomes a non-issue - even with the sidequest penalties, evil parties can still hit the cap in BG1 and reach the upper-20's/lower-30's by the end of ToB.

SionIV

shawne said:

@SionIV: At a certain point, though, experience becomes a non-issue - even with the sidequest penalties, evil parties can still hit the cap in BG1 and reach the upper-20's/lower-30's by the end of ToB.

Yes i agree with you here, but as an evil party there are many quests early game that you wouldn't do. And most of these quests happen to be the easy ones where you run around and talk to people to get experience, so the early game is much easier for a good party. So they got an easier time to get the ball rolling when it comes to gear and experience, end game they pretty much end up on the same spot anyway.

I belive that this is the reason for the evil NPC's being so powerful, because the game isn't as easy for them. So it kind of balances out in the end, atleast this is my opinion.

enqenq

1) Memory might fail me

2) Annoying the wizards only works 8 times or so, then they stop sending enforcers. And frankly unless these guards are loaded with scrolls to a point that's eluded me all this time, I would say that stealing rare scrolls from guards instead of angering these enforcement parties would be comparably effective to questing vs killing those parties for exp.

3) If you're going to be so evil you don't quest at all then yeah it would be a lot of guard farming. I believe I mentioned quests. I only meant to say that the reputation system is no reason to hold back your evilness.

4) Matter of opinion. I had a blast.

SionIV

enqenq said:

1) Memory might fail me

2) Annoying the wizards only works 8 times or so, then they stop sending enforcers. And frankly unless these guards are loaded with scrolls to a point that's eluded me all this time, I would say that stealing rare scrolls from guards instead of angering these enforcement parties would be comparably effective to questing vs killing those parties for exp.

3) If you're going to be so evil you don't quest at all then yeah it would be a lot of guard farming. I believe I mentioned quests. I only meant to say that the reputation system is no reason to hold back your evilness.

4) Matter of opinion. I had a blast.

You can pickpocket level 7-9 scrolls of the normal guards that stand around and guard, even the ones you get when you're interrupted from rest can drop Time stop scrolls, which is quite amazing.

enqenq

Dang. Before I came to these forums I thought I'd completed the game so many times I knew everything there was to know.

I don't suppose I can make a brilliant comeback by claiming sleeping in the streets is the ultimate expression of evil?

SionIV

enqenq said:

Dang. Before I came to these forums I thought I'd completed the game so many times I knew everything there was to know.

I don't suppose I can make a brilliant comeback by claiming sleeping in the streets is the ultimate expression of evil?

I'll give that one to you, it is evil to sleep in the streets! What if a peasent fell over the body of a sleeping Korgan and then hit his head against a stone and instantly died. -5 Reputation right there.

Skullburn

I think I'll try for BGII to play Evil! Never player a BG playtrought evil and I completed both of them a couple of time!

Thanks for your opinion!

KidCarnival

the_spyder said:

3. Flooding the mines with the slaves (and Quayle) in it

Sorry to nitpick, but this isn't possible. You can't get Quayle into the mines.

the_spyder

SionIV said:

7.) Your turn undead sucks, sadly.

I have to call you on this point. With Viconia in my party, almost every undead encounter I have in the game ends up with half or more of the enemy joining my side. Sure you don't get to see them pop like grapes, but you do get a whole host of free converts which works great against opponents that level drain or otherwise make you wish you weren't taking a pounding by (a) controlling these monsters yourself, and (b) adding ranks of "Companions" that can take the majority of these hits for you.

When I went after Bodhi the first time, it was a cake walk primarily because most of her team became my team. Just sayin.

RnRClown

I remember watching a friend really struggle with an evil playthrough. Then again, he did go all out with chaotic lunacy, which led to guards hunting him at every turn. He abandoned that playthrough.

I have always played the good side of the coin. Although, I have grown to become more of a neutral as time goes by.

the8anarchist

Evil parties have all the powerhouse units, Dorn, Kagain, Edwin and Viconia, but what gets me when i try to do a neutral evil char(primarily motivated by making money and myself stronger) i dont mind the good rep, as shops give me a discount, but what gets me is why they leave when your rep gets too high.

Dorn- you're helping him get revenge on those who stabbed him in the back, as long as you're aiding him in this endeavor i see no reason why he up and leaves.

Kagain- lives to make more coin, and honestly helping people tends to give you gold( killing bassilus anyone?) as long as he gets a fair share of the loot he really cant complain about how the party goes about business .

Edwin- now this one REALLY irks me as he's lawful evil and in exchange for killing dynahier, he puts himself in your service for a year, now why after doing that would you leave, it kinda goes against alignment.

Viconia- ok this one is slightly trickier, you simply save her from a flaming fist goon and allow her to join you, other than that theres kinda not much of a reason for her to stick around in terms of high rep

Eudaemonium

They leave because broken game mechanics are broken. That's really all there is to it.

shawne

the8anarchist said:

Dorn- you're helping him get revenge on those who stabbed him in the back, as long as you're aiding him in this endeavor i see no reason why he up and leaves.

If your Reputation's going up, it's because you're stopping to help people every time you hear a sob story. And every time you do that, you're delaying Dorn's revenge.

the8anarchist said:

Kagain- lives to make more coin, and honestly helping people tends to give you gold( killing bassilus anyone?) as long as he gets a fair share of the loot he really cant complain about how the party goes about business .

Actually, killing Bassilus doesn't increase your Reputation - but one of the more common ways to get Rep boosts is to refuse rewards. Kagain wouldn't appreciate that.

the8anarchist said:

Viconia- ok this one is slightly trickier, you simply save her from a flaming fist goon and allow her to join you, other than that theres kinda not much of a reason for her to stick around in terms of high rep

She may be an atypical example of her people, but she's still a drow...

the8anarchist

shawne said:

the8anarchist said:

Dorn- you're helping him get revenge on those who stabbed him in the back, as long as you're aiding him in this endeavor i see no reason why he up and leaves.

If your Reputation's going up, it's because you're stopping to help people every time you hear a sob story. And every time you do that, you're delaying Dorn's revenge.

never said anything about stoping to help EVERYONE, just only in cases where it'd have been worth the time( money, magic items ect) and if my rep is up its cause i probably bribed a few temples, so merchants would actually give me a discount rather than charge absurd prices for goods.

and while killing bassilus doesnt give you any rep 5000 gold is nothing to scoff at, its well worth anyones time to put that lunatic down.

evil does not equal kill everything in sight regardless of who or what they are, its all about whats best for you, and well if whats best for me helps someone out on occasion good for them i couldnt give a crap, i got what i wanted and or needed

Kouga

I've been thinking about doing an evil playthrough, but I don't know.. Everytime I try to plan it out it seems to get stuck because of something that just doesn't work out.

Eudaemonium

All you really need to play evil is a love of headcanon (I believe KidCarnival stated this either in this thread or another), since you will probably have to pick the good option around 70% of the time anyway, which just means justifying it to yourself ("And you call yourself a villain. How do you even sleep at night?")

Keep your rep low-to-average, hang around with evil people, do things for selfish reasons. I find it funner almost because you're fighting against the game the whole way.

Also the darkside has all the best characters, by which I mean Edwin and Viconia (and now Dorn, and possibly Hexxat, who might be awesome), because Korgan sucks.