Kit Concepts You Would Like To See
recklessheart
Member Posts: 692
A general discussion topic rather than a request, as this is really intended to be a ballpark thread for people to chat about interesting character concepts. So what would you like to see? For the purposes of streamlining the discussion and preventing too much digression, the following guidelines are advised:
1) Try to keep them realistic, and tailored to be applicable to the protagonist as much as any other character (eg. a tribal shaman kit; a Chultan ranger kit; or a Rashemi Durthan kit concept all seem like redundant areas of discussion).
2) Constructive criticism or notes on other posts made in this section should be respectfully and politely provided
That said, hopefully this discussion can be a really interesting read for other forum participants!
With the introduction of the Dragon Disciple, I thought another nice idea for the Sorcerer would be to introduce a Fey Sorcerer; one who gains benefits based on a Fey origin that focuses on subtlety, misdirection, and guise to compensate for the Sorcerer's frailty, or perhaps, their impeded ability to use offensive magic.
For Bards, I always quite liked the idea of a kit that would enhance the arcane aspect of their mechanics. Perhaps some kit-unique abilities that brought together the bard song utility with magical damage or debilitation effects similar to those of some Mage/Sorcerer spells. The consequence of these benefits could be limited weapon abilities, the inability to gain the 'style' weapon proficiencies, or maybe some other inconvenient quirks to balance out these additional arcane abilities.
And maybe some new Cleric kits, equally as simplistic as those already provided? An additional kit for each alignment would be nice for flavour, as I generally opt to advance in the class without a kit due to the limited options available. I thought popular deities might include:
Good - Ilmater, Deneir, Mystra
Neutral - Tempus, Shaundakul
Evil - Bane, Umberlee
I avoided Selune and Shar as developers would obviously have difficulty (if not complete impossibility) trying to implement these two deities when they cannot alter the current content of the games (namely Viconia, a prominent and popular NPC).
Deneir and Mystra are legitimate Gods for a child raised in Candlekeep, and would facilitate the Cleric's capacity to deal with illusions and spellcasters - perhaps even granting them a pseudo-arcane ability.
Ilmater would enhance healing, and provide a nice antithesis to the dogma of Bhaal.
Tempus is a popular deity among RPers, and would allow a pure-class Cleric more battle confidence.
Shaundakul I am uncertain what to do with, though he certainly seems like he could be an interesting choice (I avoided Silvanus and Mielikki as I see no need to overlap with Druids). Perhaps skills like Shadow Door, Spell Turning, or Glitterdust could be made accessible to a Cleric of Shaundakul?
Bane is kickass.
Umberlee seems like the only other feasible evil deity when one takes out the possibility of Shar, and realises that 2nd Edition cannot really cater for a Cleric of Mask because Clerics can't even use blades - the idea just seems so silly.
Over to you guys!
1) Try to keep them realistic, and tailored to be applicable to the protagonist as much as any other character (eg. a tribal shaman kit; a Chultan ranger kit; or a Rashemi Durthan kit concept all seem like redundant areas of discussion).
2) Constructive criticism or notes on other posts made in this section should be respectfully and politely provided
That said, hopefully this discussion can be a really interesting read for other forum participants!
With the introduction of the Dragon Disciple, I thought another nice idea for the Sorcerer would be to introduce a Fey Sorcerer; one who gains benefits based on a Fey origin that focuses on subtlety, misdirection, and guise to compensate for the Sorcerer's frailty, or perhaps, their impeded ability to use offensive magic.
For Bards, I always quite liked the idea of a kit that would enhance the arcane aspect of their mechanics. Perhaps some kit-unique abilities that brought together the bard song utility with magical damage or debilitation effects similar to those of some Mage/Sorcerer spells. The consequence of these benefits could be limited weapon abilities, the inability to gain the 'style' weapon proficiencies, or maybe some other inconvenient quirks to balance out these additional arcane abilities.
And maybe some new Cleric kits, equally as simplistic as those already provided? An additional kit for each alignment would be nice for flavour, as I generally opt to advance in the class without a kit due to the limited options available. I thought popular deities might include:
Good - Ilmater, Deneir, Mystra
Neutral - Tempus, Shaundakul
Evil - Bane, Umberlee
I avoided Selune and Shar as developers would obviously have difficulty (if not complete impossibility) trying to implement these two deities when they cannot alter the current content of the games (namely Viconia, a prominent and popular NPC).
Deneir and Mystra are legitimate Gods for a child raised in Candlekeep, and would facilitate the Cleric's capacity to deal with illusions and spellcasters - perhaps even granting them a pseudo-arcane ability.
Ilmater would enhance healing, and provide a nice antithesis to the dogma of Bhaal.
Tempus is a popular deity among RPers, and would allow a pure-class Cleric more battle confidence.
Shaundakul I am uncertain what to do with, though he certainly seems like he could be an interesting choice (I avoided Silvanus and Mielikki as I see no need to overlap with Druids). Perhaps skills like Shadow Door, Spell Turning, or Glitterdust could be made accessible to a Cleric of Shaundakul?
Bane is kickass.
Umberlee seems like the only other feasible evil deity when one takes out the possibility of Shar, and realises that 2nd Edition cannot really cater for a Cleric of Mask because Clerics can't even use blades - the idea just seems so silly.
Over to you guys!
Post edited by recklessheart on
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Comments
If I were to come up with a kit idea of my own, it'd probably be a version of the Barbarian, the Frostrager, that has cold-themed benefits while raging. No damage resistance, backstab immunity, or fast movement, but gets bonuses to unarmed hit, damage, and APR and gets an AC bonus, cold damage immunity, and +X cold damage on melee attacks while raging.
For bards, a chorister that gets a few divine spells and is possibly linked to a deity, like the cleric "kits" (i.e. a different effect song for each alignment).
Special ability to summon demon.
Stronger demon every x lvls.
* Name changed from Warlock.
As for Warlock, if based on the 3.5 Ed, it would probably do better as a sorcerer kit.
You mention additional cleric kits @recklessheart, how about adding the various heads of racial pantheons, possibly with appropriate racial restrictions? Moradin and Corellon Larethian spring to mind as both get name-dropped at some point.
Charlatan
"Charlatans are masters at manipulating people. Using their high Intelligence and understanding of human nature, Charlatans prey upon the foolish, overconfident, and greedy people around them. Charlatans often seem bold and boisterous, but they always maintain self-control. The profession of swindling others and making them feel good about it is an age-old practice and none are better at it than Charlatans. The Charlatan’s profession has its downside, too. When a Charlatan’s facade is pierced, he is in grave danger, for no one likes to be conned. Then the Charlatan’s quick feet may serve him better than his quick wit." (description adapted/stolen from Complete Book of Bards)
The Charlatan got an initial +15% to Pick Pockets at first level (the 'Swindler' bonus), and gained only 1/2 Lore. They got the abilities 'Charm' (works as Charm Person) every four levels and 'Detect Fakery' (works as a combined Detect Illusion and Know Alignment) every three levels. Their Bard Song was lost and replaced by an ability called Masquerade.
Masquerade
The Charlatan attempts to masquerade as one of the enemy, convincing them that they are a friend. Foes within range of the Masquerade must roll a saving throw against paralysation or be fooled, suffering a -2 penalty to all saving throws, THAC0 rolls, and AC while the performance is in effect. However, those that pass their save see through the subterfuge, gaining the reverse in bonuses for one round.
At 9th Level Masquerade becomes more effective, giving the enemy a -3 penalty to saving throws, THAC0 and AC, and forcing the enemies to suffer a -2 penalty to their paralysation rolls. Should the enemy pass their saving throw, they still gain the +2 bonuses for one round.
At 15th Level a successful Masquerade gives a -4 penalty to the enemy and increases the penalty to their initial saving throw by -3. Furthermore, if the enemy passes their saving throw, their bonus is reduced to +1.
I know you asked for not many details, but I just copy-pasted this from a word file and couldn't be bothered to edit it.
Barbarian seems like an obvious choice to expand: it's the only base class that doesn't have a kit of any sort. How about a guerrilla rager? +4 (instead of +2) speed, -2 on all weapon delay, +1 to hit and damage, and can't wear armor heavier than leather armor. The kit specializes in hit-and-run tactics.
Sorcerer could also use more kits. Let's combine the demon/devil idea from earlier into a sorcerer kit, give it a name like hellcaller. I would also like to see an aberration-themed kit or an ooze-themed kit for a spellcaster; since mages get all the fun toys anyway, they can be sorcerer kits. The sorcerer may start to gain weird powers as his body transforms, such as partial resistance to physical damage for an ooze-themed sorcerer or some weird polymorph options for an aberrant sorcerer.
Monk could also use another kit or two. How about a monk who is more sturdy, hits harder and isn't as fast, either for running or for number of attacks? There are lots of things you can pull out of the monk kit to make this balanced.
Finally, how about a new base class like factotum from Dungeonscape? I did a very simple mock-up of them as a 2nd edition class once, they could use mage items like scrolls even from level 1, they had lay on hands to give them a tiny bit of healing utility, they had a few rogue skills (climb walls, find/remove traps, open locks and maybe detect noise) to give them an edge in dungeons, a d8 hit die, cleric THAC0, fighter saves, open proficiencies (no specialties), chain mail was the best armor they could wear but they had the option of using any type of shield. Essentially, a jack-of-all-trades that can perform some of your needed functions on an adventure but doesn't specialize in any one area.
Changing name to Demonologist.
The Barbarian class is, mechanically speaking, nothing but a fighter kit to begin with. I'd hazard a guess this also means it can't have kits of it's own. Though maybe you could place additional barbatian-themed fighter kits in a Barbarian submenu? I'm not sure how the interface works. 3.5 Warlocks certainly have a lot to do with demons, as it is pretty much the second most common entity to make a deal for power with (the most common being Devils). Fiendish (whether demonic or diabolical) heritage is also one of the few origins (and once again the mist common) of non-pacted warlock powers.
Very few spell known spells per level (but can forget and learn new ones from scrolls whenever, they simply can never know more then 3 per spell level at a time), but uses the spell point system, giving them absolute flexibility of what they can use, when. But like Psions, their spells don't automatically become better with level and extra strength has to be paid for.
Just a minor example.
Fireball as a 3rd lvl spell, would cost a base of 3 spell points, and deal 1d6 fire damage for base cost. To deal more damage then that, it would cost extra. And you can't spend more points on a spell then you have class levels, so a 10d6 Fireball would cost 12 spell points, and take level 12 to cast.
They also lose charisma and gain vulnerabilities as they raise in level due to the magic coursing through them changing them physically over-time, but gain additional abilities and immunities as well. (examples such as having perfect visibility even in magical darkness, growing a pair of wings, charm or fear gaze, able to turn into a gaseous form, extra vulnerable to holy spells, become vulnerable to turning, weakened in sunlight, etc. It's basically just a huge tiered list and you pick 1 benefit and 1 penalty of a tier each time you reach certain levels).
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Technically, a shaman is a VERY different class then any kit currently available. They're basically just druids who turn undead instead of shapeshifting, and can use lesser necromancy sphere spells. But the key difference being, the bulk of their power comes from calling on or outright summoning spirits to aid them. Rather then from nature, their spells come from channeling lesser spirits of their tribe. And they can actually call up the spirits of their tribe's ancestors and heroes to aid them.
They're kind of like a BG Totemic, except instead of animal spirits, they summon the spirits of actual people to aid them and can perform just as members of that class would. (Though the spirits are spirits of their respected ancestors and heroes, so they will generally be more simple and tribal then typical adventurers. Such as the warriors (barbarians) wearing leather and preferring spears and clubs to other weapons, their rogues (scouts) being more scout-oriented with with high stealth and find trap, moderate set trap, and low open lock), and their mages (witch-doctors) preferring less flashy spells focusing more on illusions, alteration, enchantment).
The main difference being, the shaman must act as an anchor for the spirit, and is completely helpless while channeling the spirit (it also costs them some health via ritual blood-letting to help give the spirit form). And the process is very tiring, preventing them from doing it very often, though they do gradually get better at it and as their power grows they gain the respect of and can call on stronger spirits.
And they tend to have extremely strict vows, no armor, limited to just daggers, quarterstaves, and slings, and suffer a penalty when using magical items (30% spell failure) due to the magic of the items disrupting their connection to the spirits.
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@Scriver
Barbarian kits are only available to actual Barbarians (the racial culture), rather then some outsider trying to be one (the class). There's a lot of overlap though. The Marauder is basically a berserker, the Skald is...a skald...the forest warden is a ranger or possibly stalker, the wizard slayer is the primitive equivalent of an inquisitor, they have several kits similar to druid kits, shamans and other tribal classes, some clerics (but worshipping almost exclusively Uthgar (THE god of Barbarians, in the form of his 11 different totemic aspects), or occasionally Tempus or Chauntea)
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As for these restrictions, its completely impossible for the PC to be a druid, barbarian, or ranger, those things CANNOT be learned from books, and using Candlekeep's status as THE ultimate library as an excuse allows ANYTHING to work.
And it's literally impossible due to the writing of the story itself for the PC to be anything aside from a human, half-elf, or half-orc.
Therefore...in order to be anything else you have to completely ignore your in-game canon background and story-railroading and make up your own, which allows anything.
You could've only been at Candlekeep for 5 years, and raised by your home culture to near maturity, mastering most of your class training during that time, before being rescued by Gorion at the ritual site and either repressed the memories surrounding that event or had them modified by magic.
(look here http://dndtools.eu/classes/duskblade/)
(I know there in the Sword and Fist mod, but the implemantion is not the way I want it. Its ok for BG 2 but not much abilitys are usable in BG1).
Duskblade:
Advantages:
- Warrior Thac0 maybe Cleric Thac0 to keep from getting to powerfull.
- Spellbook up to Level 5 spells on level 17 and if possible spells are handled like a sorcerer)
- Arcane Attunement (some minor Spells
- Armored Mage (can cast in light armor and with small shields)
- Can use Mage items (Scrolls, Robes etc.)
Disadvantages (the same as Sword and Fist mod):
- May only Specialize (2 stars) in weapons.
- May not dualclass.
- May not use bows or missile weapons
- Can only wear armor up to and including splint mail
I'm not sure if it is possible to make them a seperate spellbook, But I would love to see this kit.
So you can have Shar and Selune kits without giving Viconia the kit.
I'd propose a slightly different idea. An Artificer, thief kit, any alignment possible including lawful good. They're not thieves but rather trained as locksmiths, engineers, clockmakers and the like. Great at tinkering, inventing and lateral thinking, but without the street-smarts or sneakiness of an actual thief. They lose their backstab multiplier, stealth and pickpocket skills in exchange for significant bonuses to find/remove traps, open locks, detect illusions and set traps. There's also the potential for special abilities like alchemy to create potions, fashion enhanced ammunition, trap bonuses and so on, giving them a lot of out-of-combat versatility.
I'm am fairly certain what recklessheart was referring to was dialogue and interaction with Viconia, which is what can't be changed, rather than her class.
There is no Barbarian "race". In BG, as you very well know, Barbarian is a class. You need to start differentiate between the PnP rules you love and what is actually in the game. Especially when what is being discussed is the actual mechanics of the implementation of the class/pseudo-class kit Barbarian.
Pretty much all of that is easily do-able (just implement as a sorcerer kit and change the progression rates around)...the only thing I'm not sure about is the armored casting, but I think people have implemented stuff similar to that before so it should be possible. (though light armor is armor that is 6 base AC or worse)
Must've missed my request for implementing the Barbarian race as a human sub-culture. Which would then make it in-game.
And no, this topic has nothing to do with barbarians the class, it has everything to do with adding new stuff, in which case, adding the barbarian cultural race, that can then take certain kits/classes that closely replicate the barbarian kits is the best possible action. Since it's easier to just add one new race (that is still functionally human) except gains new abilities but also has new penalties, since the barbarian "kits" would simply be different named re-hashes of most current kits across a broad spectrum of classes.
In short, it's less work on the developers to just add 1 new race that can simply be flagged as human, and can use existing kits, which are functionally identical to most of the barbarian kits.
The current barbarian kit cannot go any further, it's a dead-end fighter kit, and has no where else to grow towards. The Sorcerer at least had an entirely unique mechanic to build around. But the current barbarian is just a different flavor of berserker.
id also very much like to see a Halfling only kit
necromancer mage with special abilities
better shapeshifter between shapeshifter rebalanced and origianl shapeshifter so he won't be so OP
better bards zanath probably knows everything about them
Bards should have a kit where pickpocket is replaced by a thief skill of there choice, and one that can backstab.
Mage kits need to have better advantage/disadvantage. (I.e. Special abilities, but stat penalties, like the avenger.)
Specialist sorcerers.