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Fighter\Thief build

Hey i would appreciate if someone helps me get the best build for: Thief\Fighter having some proficiency in darts and using quarterstaff for backstabbing. I saw a few topics but i just dont know where to start. Whats the best way. Multi or Dual? Start as fighter or thief? till what level? I read halfing is prefered dart wise, but i am not sure its the best race for thief skills. Anyone with enough Bg Lore to clarify this?

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Comments

  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,456
    Obviously it depends most on what you hope the build to do? What do you imagine the character is like?

  • LeonLeon Member Posts: 83
    The best dart slinger in the west :PP, plus hiding and backstabbing with quarterstaff. I am not sure what class gives you most proficiency points. Dart proficiency>thief skills>quarterstaff proficiency. Not sure if i should build Fighter or Thief and to what levels advance. Plus the race thing.. any suggestions?

  • SuiboonSuiboon Member Posts: 86
    I suggest multiclass, because then you don't have to worry or plan ahead as much as you would with dual classing. You will grow in power through the game(s) and will eventually have access to both classes' HLA's if you take the character that far. For race it really doesn't matter all that much, but personally I'd go with dwarf because of the improved saving throws and extra constitution. The 17 dex shortcoming can be rectified with the dexterity tome. The other option would be to start as a fighter kit and then dual to a thief at level 7, 9 or 13.

    LeonthespaceDragonspear
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,456
    Well, let's say being the best dart slinger means five pips in darts. You can achieve this with a Fighter 3 -> Thief 9 dual the easiest.

    Start with a human fighter with at least 15 STR and 17 DEX (realistically, you want 18 both). Put 2 pips in dart 2 pips in quarterstaff. At level 3 put your pip in darts, then dual to thief. Put your thief point one in two-handed weapon style one in where ever, daggers maybe. At level four thief you regain your abilities and put the fourth pip to darts. At level 8 thief you get your fifth pip in darts, ending up with

    ***** Darts
    ** Quarterstaff
    * Dagger
    * Two-handed weapon style

    You can dual at Fighter 7 and still reach Thief 8 but that's going to take forever. It'll be more powerful though.

    Leon
  • CorvinoCorvino Member Posts: 2,269
    edited October 2013
    Fighter/Thief multis are usually pretty fun, and let you do what you want to do from the very start. You don't have any downtime, advance fairly quickly throughout BG:EE, ending up at level 7 fighter/8 thief at the level cap. At the end of BG2 you'll also get High Level Abilities available to both classes rather than just one. You should be able to get 100% move silently and hide in shadows by the end of BG:EE with 1 other skill close to maximum. If you use the shadow armour and boots of stealth you can neglect stealth skills a bit to pad out your lockpicks and find traps. In BG2 you'll have more skillpoints than you need.

    An Elf or Halfling will offer you the possibility of very good dexterity for ranged THAC0 bonuses from the very start as well as natural bonuses to stealth, though Halflings have strength penalty.

    Personally I'm not a huge fan of fighter->thief duals. While Kensai->Thieves can get very powerful in mid-late BG2 you're stuck with a character who is annoyingly squishy and non-thiefy for more than half of the saga.

    thespacechickenhed
  • mjsmjs Member Posts: 742
    Heh, I did an Elf F/T multi not long ago using QS and darts. Damn she was bad-ass.

    There's probably three ways you can go with this

    #1 F/T multi
    Halflings will give you those extra thieving points that you lack compared to a straight thief, because your thief skills half as quick, but you're missing out 19 strength after using the tome of strength, which really makes your backstabs pack a wallop! Elves are good. You still hit 19 strength, you get high racial dex and the slight loss of Con isn't so bad

    #2 Dual Fighter->Thief: Perfect for beefy thieves, more HP, better on the frontline, higher APR, use more items.
    WS->Thief: Not recommended. You only benefit from the WS's miscast magic on hit ability, but lose out on tonnes of useful magic items until UAI in ToB
    Kensai->Thief: For super powerful backstabs, combine with kai. Earliest dual at lvl 3 for the +1 damage and extra pip. You can go higher of course.
    Berserker->Thief: More of a tank thief than the K->T. When you're not thieving, put full plate to become a regular front liner. Dual at 3 for the extra pip or wait for another berserker rage before dualling to thief

    #3 Thief->Fighter: Great if you don't want an active thief. Some players think that beyond a certain level, thieves become irrelevant, as they already have enough skill points to do everything the need to. Earliest dual at 3 or 4, to put 100% into Find Trap. Open locks and Stealth can be worked around using, Knock or potions etc
    BH->Fighter: Not recommended. BH abilities scale
    Assassin->Fighter: Dualling at 4, might just get you enough find traps points and you get +1 damage and hit and poison ability. Pretty decent.
    Swashbuckler-> Fighter: Same as T->F, but without backstabs

    Annnnnd i think that's it, just my thoughts, I'm sure others will offer their input too

  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,456
    Guys, kensais and berserkers can't be the best dart throwers :/

    EudaemoniumLordRumfishZaferick
  • LeonLeon Member Posts: 83
    wow thanks for the answers! I will start as fighter\berserker and in level 4 pr 7 i will dual to regular thief. I always wanted to try the dart concept so thats my main goal in this playthrough. I know darts are not good damage wise, always need to refill ammo - but the concept of the dart killer is just awesome :) Thanks again for answers, If you add more lore, it would be helpful as my BG lore is almost lost(

  • KidCarnivalKidCarnival Member Posts: 3,747
    Multiclass, and race depends on what weapons you want. I went with elf for longsword, but if you want darts and quarterstaff, you can as well take the shorty saving throws. With a focus on darts/ranged weapons, I'd take halfling rather than dwarf for the dex. You can use the strength tome to get to 18 in late game and BG2 and dex tome for 20; with a dwarf you can get 19 str/17 dex.

  • LeonLeon Member Posts: 83

    Guys, kensais and berserkers can't be the best dart throwers :/

    If i dual fighter at level 4, i will regain fighter levels when i reach thief level 5? If i dual earlier, am i going to lose more thief skills then dualing at level 7?

  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,456
    @Leon do not roll a berserker, they cannot put more than 1 pip in darts.

    Also yes, you regain abilities when your new class level surpasses the old. You only gain thief skills when leveling up as a thief, so you don't lose or gain points from dualing earlier/later.

  • PibaroPibaro Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 2,989
    It's easy.

    1) Multiclass fighter/thief. You can use thieving abilities at the very beginning of the game. It will be one of the best in using darts. Probably best option for BGEE
    2) Assassin kit. You can use thieving abilities at the very beginning of the game. It will be the best in backstabbing, but not a good dart thrower.
    3) Bounty hunter kit. You can use thieving abilities at the very beginning of the game. It will be the best in scouting and in placing traps, but not a good dart thrower.
    4) Swashbuckler kit. You can use thieving abilities at the very beginning of the game. It will be a good melee fighter, but not a good dart thrower.
    5) Shadowdancer kit. You can use thieving abilities at the very beginning of the game. Good in scouting, but we still don't know his definitive backstabbing progression, also not a good dart thrower.
    6) Fighter dual to thief. Could be the best dart thrower and the best melee fighter, the best scout and very good in placing raps, it will have many thieving points..... but you'll have to wait a lot to gain thieving abilities. Best option for BG2EE.
    7) Thief dual to fighter. Interesting character. Could be the best one in many things, but it's mainly used for a backstabber (you'll have less HP but in the end a better thac0 than the fighter/thief dual). You have to choose in wich thieving abilities you want to specialize him.

    Leon
  • LeonLeon Member Posts: 83
    Dualing to thief in level 4 means to the end of the game i will be fighter? damn forgot how all this dual thing works.. If i want to be master at darts but be thief most of the game should i dual at 4 or 7? Also as far as i understood reading old threads.. dart user is basically useless ir BG2, or i am wrong?

  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,456
    You are dualing from fighter to thief, so you're going to be a thief for the rest of the game. Like I said in my post, you'd end Fighter 4/ Thief 9

    Leon
  • LeonLeon Member Posts: 83

    You are dualing from fighter to thief, so you're going to be a thief for the rest of the game. Like I said in my post, you'd end Fighter 4/ Thief 9

    And i am still going to get mastery in darts and profiecency at quarterstaff? http://www.playithardcore.com/pihwiki/index.php?title=Baldur's_Gate:_Progression_Charts#Proficiency_Benefits what about changing class in bg2ee later? is that possible if i dual at level 4? or that leaves me thief for the rest of TOB(which is weaker then fighter)? Thanks

  • LeonLeon Member Posts: 83
    Oh and what do you think about multiclassing rogue for example? it allows me to have the same Proficiency points in darts and quarterstaff just as dueling? I plan on taking only 2 Npc's with me so the experience is going to be easier to get.

  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199
    Multi-Class F/T's can only put 2 Pips in a weapon proficiency, whereas Dual-Class Fighter>Thieves can put up to 5 due to a... glitch in the system, I guess, but certainly one worth exploiting. I am currently running a Fighter dualled to Thief at level 7, and she, well... murders very efficiently. If you are only running a party of 3, you might want to consider this because it will reduce the downtime quiet considerably, and you end up with (if playing with max HP rolls) a minimum of 70 HP + Con bonuses from your Fighter levels, which is very nice, as well as an extra APR.

    My Charname is the true Lord of Murder. Sarevok was beaten to death with a stick.

    LeonPibaroKidCarnival
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,456
    Leon said:

    You are dualing from fighter to thief, so you're going to be a thief for the rest of the game. Like I said in my post, you'd end Fighter 4/ Thief 9

    And i am still going to get mastery in darts and profiecency at quarterstaff? http://www.playithardcore.com/pihwiki/index.php?title=Baldur's_Gate:_Progression_Charts#Proficiency_Benefits what about changing class in bg2ee later? is that possible if i dual at level 4? or that leaves me thief for the rest of TOB(which is weaker then fighter)? Thanks

    Yes, as I explained even a Fighter 3 -> Thief 9 can reach ***** in darts. If you dual in BGEE you cannot change classes in BG2EE; you can only dual class once.
    Leon said:

    Oh and what do you think about multiclassing rogue for example? it allows me to have the same Proficiency points in darts and quarterstaff just as dueling? I plan on taking only 2 Npc's with me so the experience is going to be easier to get.

    Multiclassing does not allow the same proficiency points as dualing. Multiclass fighters can only get ** darts.

    If you're only running with a couple of NPCs then yeah, a later dual is possible. Fighter 7 -> Thief will be great even in BG2EE.

  • LeonLeon Member Posts: 83

    Multi-Class F/T's can only put 2 Pips in a weapon proficiency, whereas Dual-Class Fighter>Thieves can put up to 5 due to a... glitch in the system, I guess, but certainly one worth exploiting. I am currently running a Fighter dualled to Thief at level 7, and she, well... murders very efficiently. If you are only running a party of 3, you might want to consider this because it will reduce the downtime quiet considerably, and you end up with (if playing with max HP rolls) a minimum of 70 HP + Con bonuses from your Fighter levels, which is very nice, as well as an extra APR.

    My Charname is the true Lord of Murder. Sarevok was beaten to death with a stick.

    Hehe awesome. I just wait for the patch and i will start with Xan and Eldoth(never tryed playing with Skiee, i think i will try 1 time). Mine serverok is going to die by darts ;) Really sad that glitch in the system doesnt allow to be multi.. Never like human and only they can Dual.(?). I guess i will pass the rogue, with all the bonuses to the hide and shadows and saving throws and will be human-dart-killa. Thanks all for your answers

  • doomdoomdoomdoomdoomdoom Member Posts: 89
    edited October 2013
    I would say the deadliest dart thrower with thief abilities is Assassin, especially early on.
    Poison Weapon delivered with 3-4 APR is very nasty.
    Assuming BG1 only, Assassin6/Fighter8, although if you want to continue playing that char in BG2 too, that wouldn't be the most optimal build.

    chickenhed
  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199
    Leon said:

    Multi-Class F/T's can only put 2 Pips in a weapon proficiency, whereas Dual-Class Fighter>Thieves can put up to 5 due to a... glitch in the system, I guess, but certainly one worth exploiting. I am currently running a Fighter dualled to Thief at level 7, and she, well... murders very efficiently. If you are only running a party of 3, you might want to consider this because it will reduce the downtime quiet considerably, and you end up with (if playing with max HP rolls) a minimum of 70 HP + Con bonuses from your Fighter levels, which is very nice, as well as an extra APR.

    My Charname is the true Lord of Murder. Sarevok was beaten to death with a stick.

    Hehe awesome. I just wait for the patch and i will start with Xan and Eldoth(never tryed playing with Skiee, i think i will try 1 time). Mine serverok is going to die by darts ;) Really sad that glitch in the system doesnt allow to be multi.. Never like human and only they can Dual.(?). I guess i will pass the rogue, with all the bonuses to the hide and shadows and saving throws and will be human-dart-killa. Thanks all for your answers
    If you wait for the patch, then you can get a mod that will allow you to dual or multi with any race (you can't change this in the game presently, but they have externalised the files that let you change these things in the new patch).

  • LeonLeon Member Posts: 83
    Eudaemonium can you post link to this mod?

  • AstroBryGuyAstroBryGuy Member Posts: 3,415
    Leon said:

    Multi-Class F/T's can only put 2 Pips in a weapon proficiency, whereas Dual-Class Fighter>Thieves can put up to 5 due to a... glitch in the system, I guess, but certainly one worth exploiting. I am currently running a Fighter dualled to Thief at level 7, and she, well... murders very efficiently. If you are only running a party of 3, you might want to consider this because it will reduce the downtime quiet considerably, and you end up with (if playing with max HP rolls) a minimum of 70 HP + Con bonuses from your Fighter levels, which is very nice, as well as an extra APR.

    My Charname is the true Lord of Murder. Sarevok was beaten to death with a stick.

    Hehe awesome. I just wait for the patch and i will start with Xan and Eldoth(never tryed playing with Skiee, i think i will try 1 time). Mine serverok is going to die by darts ;) Really sad that glitch in the system doesnt allow to be multi.. Never like human and only they can Dual.(?). I guess i will pass the rogue, with all the bonuses to the hide and shadows and saving throws and will be human-dart-killa. Thanks all for your answers
    The glitch isn't that multi-class fighters can't get more than two-pips. The glitch is that a dual-class fighter->thief shouldn't be able to use thief class proficiencies to increase his proficiency in a weapon to grand mastery.

    Leonthespace
  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199
    http://www.gibberlings3.net/bg2tweaks/ - here you go. It will only work if you have the Beta or wait for the Patch to be officially release, however.

    Leon
  • LeonLeon Member Posts: 83

    http://www.gibberlings3.net/bg2tweaks/ - here you go. It will only work if you have the Beta or wait for the Patch to be officially release, however.

    Thanks! now we just need to wait for the patch (DOH)

  • CorvinoCorvino Member Posts: 2,269
    Multiclass fighter/thieves generally get better THAC0 and and APR compared to fighter->thief duals that dual before level 7. Grandmastery is nice and all, but a fighter 3/thief 9 is going to have the same APR and worse THAC0 than a fighter 7/thief 8 multi. The multiclass will continue to get better THAC0 and APR as well, while a low-level dual essentially gets thief THAC0 with grandmastery bonuses toward the end of BG1.

    thespace
  • thespacethespace Member Posts: 1,039
    edited October 2013
    Corvino said:

    Multiclass fighter/thieves generally get better THAC0 and and APR compared to fighter->thief duals that dual before level 7. Grandmastery is nice and all, but a fighter 3/thief 9 is going to have the same APR and worse THAC0 than a fighter 7/thief 8 multi. The multiclass will continue to get better THAC0 and APR as well, while a low-level dual essentially gets thief THAC0 with grandmastery bonuses toward the end of BG1.

    Very well said. That, and the nuisance of the downtime it takes to duel + having to be a human (no bonus skill points).

    I ran with the concept it seems @Leon is considering, and did it as a halfling f/t, and as a human dueled from fighter 7 to thief. The halfling multi was a lot more fun for me. Halflings get +1 with darts, and have the most thief skill points of any race. Having 1 less point in STR is nothing in a game filled with giant STR potions.

    Yeah you can use duel-classing glitch to cheat in extra proficiency points, but I don't need a way to make the game any easier. Winning isn't satisfying when I know that I've cheated.

    Here's what my halfling fighter/thief looks like at end BG1:

    Finn - Fighter 7/Thief 8

    STR 18
    DEX 20
    CON 19
    INT 14
    WIS 12
    CHA 16

    Skills with no gear enhancements! 46 MORE POINTS THAN END GAME BG1 SINGLE CLASSED HUMAN THIEF (level 10) IMOEN!

    M. Silently - 100
    F. Traps - 86
    P. Pockets - 40
    O. Locks - 70
    H. I. Shadows - 100
    D. Illusion - 0
    S. Traps - 15

    ** Quarterstaff
    ** Darts
    * Longbow (mostly for effects arrows)
    * Two-handed Weapon Style

    Post edited by thespace on
  • LeonLeon Member Posts: 83
    Nice build. I know grandmastery in certain weapon is def. worth it by the end of TOB. Darts are The perfect mage disruptor.. well aside from poison.. and backstabbing.. and criticals.. ee nvm :) thespace, so you didnt use BG2 tweaks? And if something is wrong ingame, using mod to fix it- isnt considered a cheat to me. And i use to re-roll for days) instead of using Ctrl8 and software. Now the question is, how much do i need to spend in P.pockets to steal Algernon cloak)

  • luskanluskan Member Posts: 269
    Leon said:

    Now the question is, how much do i need to spend in P.pockets to steal Algernon cloak)

    Before the patch, Imoen or Garrick could do it at level 1 with enough reloads. After the patch, you'll need 50.

  • thespacethespace Member Posts: 1,039
    edited October 2013
    Leon said:

    thespace, so you didnt use BG2 tweaks? And if something is wrong ingame, using mod to fix it- isnt considered a cheat to me. And i use to re-roll for days) instead of using Ctrl8 and software. Now the question is, how much do i need to spend in P.pockets to steal Algernon cloak)

    I don't know what BG2 tweaks is. I'm simply playing BGEE on a Mac with no mods. I don't know if it's possible to "Ctrl8" for rolling stats on a Mac.

    I don't spend any points in P. pockets so far. I simply gulp down a potion of mastery thievery or 3 before snatching Drizzit's scimitars :) Rarely I play a bard, and just have good pick pockets, however, I have lost interest in bards after playing Charnames with more umph (love fighter/thieves & stalkers).

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