Charisma and the Bard
FinaLfront
Member Posts: 260
I'm a long time fan of the BG series, and it's great to be able to play these games again with enhanced features. Back when I first played this game, I never visited forums or asked questions about this game. I know a lot about the game from sheer first hand experience, multiple play throughs and hours logged. But I don't know everything. One of the questions that's always eluded is exactly what charisma does. I have a few questions about the bard in general as well. I decided for this play through, to roll a vanilla bard which I've never done before.
So, when allocating stats at character generation, charisma reads something to the effect of: "yada yada yada, this stat is important for bards"
Why exactly? All I know charisma to really do is change a few dialogue options, and certain outcomes. Are there any other hidden benefits to charisma in this game?
My next question is just for feedback on bards. The stats I started with are:
10 str
17 dex
15 con
17 int
15 wis
18 cha
due to low str, he mostly wields a xbow. This obviously isn't a powerbuild, and more rp oriented. Any suggestions on how to play with this setup?
Lastly, did they change how bard song worked in BG? IIRC bard song increased thaco, dmg and saves by +1. Now it just seems to remove fear.
So, when allocating stats at character generation, charisma reads something to the effect of: "yada yada yada, this stat is important for bards"
Why exactly? All I know charisma to really do is change a few dialogue options, and certain outcomes. Are there any other hidden benefits to charisma in this game?
My next question is just for feedback on bards. The stats I started with are:
10 str
17 dex
15 con
17 int
15 wis
18 cha
due to low str, he mostly wields a xbow. This obviously isn't a powerbuild, and more rp oriented. Any suggestions on how to play with this setup?
Lastly, did they change how bard song worked in BG? IIRC bard song increased thaco, dmg and saves by +1. Now it just seems to remove fear.
0
Comments
If you go to this link you'll see exactly how: http://playithardcore.com/pihwiki/index.php?title=Baldur's_Gate:_Races_and_Stats#Charisma
There is no particular benefit strictly for Bards from having a high charisma. Having an 18 Charisma will give you greater quest rewards throughout the game aswell, and it has to be at least 18 for this to trigger.
Moreover, there are some quests that will get you better rewards if you have around 18 charisma.
- Fuller in Candlekeep will give you his Dagger+1
- The Noble man in Candlekeep will put his jewelry into the locked container upstairs (so you can go and plunder it)
- The guy fleeing from a Mountain Bear in the area north of Gnoll Fortress will give you some +cold resist boots
- SIlke offers 400 gold instead of 300 if your charisma is high
With 21 charisma, Petrine's father gave me the Cloak of Protection +1 as reward for killing the cat.
Also, if you have 18 CHA, your reputation needs to be only 9+ in BG1 and 18+ in BG2 for all the best responses. When you'll find the tome +1 to CHA, yuo'll have 19 CHA so your reputation will need to be only 6+ in BG1 and 9+ in BG2. Thus, with such high CHA you shouldn't care about your reputation much.
BTW, with a certain cloak later in the game you'll be able to get the best (the lowest) prices without casting the Friends spell. It's very convenient.
In BG:EE the Bard Song has the following effects:
1st Level: +2 morale per round
15th Level: +1 luck, +2 morale per round
20th Level: +2 luck, immunity to fear, immunity to morale loss.
The Skald's song is different from the typical Bard's and varies with level:
1st level: Grants allies a +2 bonus to hit and damage rolls, and a -2 bonus to AC.
15th level: Grants allies a +4 bonus to hit and damage rolls, a -4 bonus to AC, and immunity to fear.
20th level: Grants allies a +4 bonus to hit and damage rolls, a -4 bonus to AC, and immunity to fear, stun, and confusion.
Personally is find the remove fear ability very important. As soon as someone casts horror, just sing. Voilà. One of the most dangerous enemy spells is not so dangerous any more. WIth SCS, it helps even better.
Your stats are decent enough, I don't like OP characters. An Xbow is an excellent choice, it has rather a high damage and there're deadly bolts you can buy.
With you high INT and WIS combined with natural Lore bonus you'll identify magical items easily.
You can raise your STR with a 2nd level spell and a certain item later in the game. If you want, of course.
My advice: Just be a support caster/missile threat from the back. Use wands frequently. At the 10th level with the Greater Malison Spell and the Chromatic Orb spell you'll have a very good chance to kill Sarevok single-handedly. Till then, just Web-Web-Web your enemies and finish them with your Light Crossbow of speed.
I once did an all spell casters run - my charismatic bard + Imoen, +Xan, +Xzar +Dynaheir +Edwin. That's right, I was able to play the entire game with both Dynaheir and Edwin in my party. How cool is that?
@OP: Your biggest concern as a bard is the armor. The only way to get Elven Chain (aka the only armor you can cast in) is in Dorn's quest, and you can only get it after Cloakwood Mines. If you play a good party or don't want Dorn for any other reason, I recommend to pick him up after finishing Cloakwood Mines. His quest should trigger very soon and you can quickly rush through it to get the armor.
Before that, your bard can either go the tedious route (put armor on before fights, use utility spells like knock and identify outside battles) or the expensive route (shield amulet, spells/scrolls like Shield, Armor, Blur).
once you enter in Baldur's Gate..you can immediately have access to Sorcerous Sundries (spelling~); there, with the BGEE (well tested and (ab!)used under v2014 at least!), you have access to an INFINITE number of 'spirit armor' scrolls (infinite lv4 scrolls.. bug?!) ; with a good charisma+friend spell, +2 CH cloak (etc).. you can get CH20+ very easily with a bard. Get your reputation at the best level you can (me, i try always to be at at 20^..) : CH20+ + REP20 = best possible prices...
those 'spirit armor' scrolls are then more than very easily affordable.. and en masse, then^
(the same can be said with wands btw.. another extremely useful bard ability to use&abuse it seems..^).
..i always try to get 30 of them (v2014) before a long run (ex; Durlag).. put the stack in one of the 'quick slots'.. and voilà.. a very easy way to always get a 'best possible' AC (for the toughest fights) 'spirit armor = AC1, + 3 bonus on spell saving throws..saving throw bonus cumulative too btw (bug?)... in the end, with only the elven armor, my bard lv10 (DEX18-->19 at the end, +2 ring, balduran cap, etc), has a default AC=-2.. with the spirit armor AC=-6 (elven chain on or not). correct.. And with a defensive spin (bard blades) on top of that can get up to -16 then..and more with blur/blessed etc on top of that if wished too.. up to -20 i noticed once! and under the defensive spin, can launch spells and/or use throwing weapons/bows/other attack scrolls/wands/etc without problems too..^(!)
PS:
the most important factor to get the absolute best final prices in shops seems to be the REPUTATION (see the hardcore charts indeed), though ; The CHA comes just after that apparently. from my tests, there is a final better difference between a 20 and 18 REP than with a CH19 and CH25(with friends spell)..! Consecutively, that's very important to temporarily exclude Viconia (for exemple!) when you want to shop : you regain +2 REP instantly, can pass again from REP18 to REP20..and get back Viconia at the end of the shopping only; she always accept to reenter your party (you just get a -2 malus once she is in again). Shar Teel seems to be the only other 'easy going evil' NPC regarding high levels of REP (>18) ; as long as you won your duel with her initially (so she accepted to join your party..), that's the only other evil char that apparently seems not to be unjoinable with a REP>18 (always accepting to go back even with a REP20!)..all that to say; REP is really important to get the best possible prices too..
but all that basically to say too ; a bard (blade) (or not!) with even the 'minimal' initial CH16/15(?) 'only' -mainly concentrating on STR/DEX/INT initially..) ; CH16/17 after the very easy to get CH+1 tome in the gnoll fortress)+cloak CH+2+friends spell=CH25 without problems! +REP20 = quasi all the 'spirit armor' scrolls you ever wish after a little moment (with of course the good thieving capacities & tactics to get the constantly flowing money; sell, steal, resell to Black Lily the unused extras, etc....just one good thief is enough for that, for exemple Alora even just temporary, in BG shops; not even needed to use a single master thievery potion then!^).. and the absolute best prices (and money too) for everything else assured too. ^^ *)
Of course, you don't really need to be THE character with the high CH in the party anyway; even Emoen (CH16) can do the trick without you to have a high CH (or even less forced to be a bard for that^)... but to get the best prices/best NPCs reactions, must be the leading Char in the group...you will have just not to forget to switch the NPC leaders in the group (for Imoen for ex)..personally, i like to be the leading dude for that...less tricky and lesser risks to forget the NPc switch when needed(!)...why i also like the bard blades that are perfectly fit for the front end fighting tasks too..if necessary..))
Just a thought too..)
With 18 charisma at creation, OP will reach 21 anyway - tome +1, cloak +2; or with Friends spell. That might even be the smarter route. Charname is ranged, so Dorn makes a good party leader with the cloak (and possibly even tome) for NPC reactions, while the bard can shopface for best prices with Friendship.
PS:
The only thing, with Dorn as leader (or any other evil char in the team).. you will never be able to get REP>18, so not the best (absolute) possible prices. And even REP18 (with an evil char in the team other than Viconia or Shar Teel!) is tricky; just one (unexpected) REP reward point here&there, and your evil char will leave immediately (REP>18..).. Dorn will go back to the FAI (and refuse to return till you don't get back <18!) and some other can even disappear for good (ex: Kagain!)..so with evil chars in the team, the safest road might be to never pass the REP16/17 barrier max to be safe (maybe). So, not the best prices guaranteed (/REP20), but could be a very correct compromise too, yes).
No time to replay a full new v1.2 game right now(!), but i could quickly reverify some of the points above using the nice console tricks just after the creation of a new test char
the unlimited number of scrolls / wands has indeed been fixed in v1.2! (new clean games!) [scrolls/wands 20/10 max now). The wands(&others) can always be sold & rebought/stolen though, to be max recharged at 25/50/100 always, so less important for those ones, always as useful for bards possible tactics; just 1 or 2 can always be enough for the whole game like that..