archer any good?

meowzor

is archer a good class for charname? also which NPC is good at using bows?

Sceptenar

The archer is amazing in BG:EE, never played it in BG2 so I can't say how it fares later. With a composite longbow +1 and the bracers of archery you can rip through most enemies in no time.

Best NPC for bows is Kivan in my opinion.

jackjack

The kit, uh, loses some effectiveness late in the saga, particularly ToB.

meowzor

whys that?

jackjack said:

The kit, uh, loses some effectiveness late in the saga, particularly ToB.

jackjack

Late game enemies seemed to shrug off missile attacks when I played through with an archer. They are death incarnate early on, however.

etagloc

its still, really good in TOB. especially if you wana play "Hawk eye" and spend cash on some powerful arrows... your thac0 and damage is also really nice.. your weakness will ofc be piercing immune and resistant enemys. in BG 1.. its "OP"

meowzor

why do they shrug off missile attacks? is it because they have mantle spells and shit?

what about sorceror, or blade, are they any good

Sceptenar

The Sorcerer is very good, Blade is also a lot of fun.

meowzor

do sorcerers use int like mages? and will I have too much magic if I plan to pick up some mage NPCs?

also how does blade compare to kensai? they seem similar other than armor?

Elendar

meowzor said:

do sorcerers use int like mages? and will I have too much magic if I plan to pick up some mage NPCs?

also how does blade compare to kensai? they seem similar other than armor?

Sorcerers aren't dependent on any stat for their spellcasting.

Blades can cast spells where as Kensais cannot, and have the Bard song. Kensais however use the warrior THACO table, where as Blades use the rogue's. Blades also level up using thief progression which is faster than the fighter(kensai) progression.

Corvino

Protection from normal missiles is a very common spell thrown up by the AI. Missile resistance/immunity is also pretty common throughout the saga, especially on tougher enemies.

Elven Archers using Longbows have probably the best early THAC0 of any class though, and will wreck 99% of enemies in BG1.

meowzor

Elendar said:

meowzor said:

do sorcerers use int like mages? and will I have too much magic if I plan to pick up some mage NPCs?

also how does blade compare to kensai? they seem similar other than armor?

Sorcerers aren't dependent on any stat for their spellcasting.

in other words con is the most important stat? I plan to pick up the new wild mage or edwin or minsc's witch will I be too magic heavy?

Sceptenar

The sorcerer is supposed to use intelligence, yes. But from a gameplay standpoint it is essentially pointless as they get the same amount of spells regardless of their intelligence. Feel free to make a low intelligence sorcerer if you wish.

The kensai will be a better damage dealer overall as it is based on the fighter class, the blade is basically a very combat capable bard focusing on dual wielding, but it can't quite compare to a fighter, but has some fun things to do instead, like magic spells and some interesting abilities.

Sceptenar

meowzor said:

Elendar said:

meowzor said:

do sorcerers use int like mages? and will I have too much magic if I plan to pick up some mage NPCs?

also how does blade compare to kensai? they seem similar other than armor?

Sorcerers aren't dependent on any stat for their spellcasting.

in other words con is the most important stat? I plan to pick up the new wild mage or edwin or minsc's witch will I be too magic heavy?

Get your con to 16 and max your dexterity and you should do well.

Going in with two mages is doable, you will lack a bit of melee staying power, but make up for it in firepower.

Elendar

meowzor said:

Elendar said:

meowzor said:

do sorcerers use int like mages? and will I have too much magic if I plan to pick up some mage NPCs?

also how does blade compare to kensai? they seem similar other than armor?

Sorcerers aren't dependent on any stat for their spellcasting.

in other words con is the most important stat? I plan to pick up the new wild mage or edwin or minsc's witch will I be too magic heavy?

Sorcerers only benefit from Constitution up to 16 points, like any other non-warrior class. I'd say max dexterity, as that increases their missile weapons ability and their armor class. Strength for carrying capacity, WIS for things like good Wish spell options and Lore, INT for fighting mind flayers and such.

Frosty

meowzor said:

Elendar said:

meowzor said:

do sorcerers use int like mages? and will I have too much magic if I plan to pick up some mage NPCs?

also how does blade compare to kensai? they seem similar other than armor?

Sorcerers aren't dependent on any stat for their spellcasting.

in other words con is the most important stat? I plan to pick up the new wild mage or edwin or minsc's witch will I be too magic heavy?

Dexterity is the most important, Since it give you more AC and better THAC0 with slings/Darts. Has a Sorcerer you wont get any thing for having more then 16 constitution.

Corvino

Now that we're having Intelligence implemented as a limiting factor for spell level known, it'll be interesting to see how this is effects sorcerers. There's been nothing specifically said, but if your Int 10 Sorcerer suddenly can't learn level 6 spells we know what's happened.

Aranthys

Called Shot is pretty much the ultimate ability even in ToB.
You can pretty much kill anything with that ability alone - Archers have the lowest thaco ever, meaning you hit on every single shot, each shot lowering strength, thaco and save vs spells.
After a few hits, a single finger of death and the fight is over.

CoryNewb

OP: "archer any good?"
Me: "archer very good"

Not sure about end of bg2, but I have to imagine there are some bows in BG2 that will make the class still useful.

Drugar

If only because eventually, they fire craptons of arrows per round, nullifying Stoneskin in seconds.

In BG1 and most of BG2 they are absolute kill-o-matics.

Drugar

If only because eventually, they fire craptons of arrows per round, nullifying Stoneskin in seconds.

In BG1 and most of BG2 they are absolute kill-o-matics.

Sceptenar

Drugar said:

If only because eventually, they fire craptons of arrows per round, nullifying Stoneskin in seconds.

In BG1 and most of BG2 they are absolute kill-o-matics.

True, they tear through stoneskin. But the problem arises when you face mages using mantle, improved mantle or absolute immunity. It also gets hard when you're up against foes who require a weapon with a certain enchantment level to hit, because it's hard to get hold of arrows with higher than +2 enchantment.
The enchantment on the bow won't help there unfortunately since it is the enchantment on the arrows that determines what it can hit.

Lord_Tansheron

Use Bow of Gesen or Firetooth, both of which can be used without arrows and will use their own high enchantment level to hit. Firetooth also has the advantage of being available obscenely early in BG2.

As for immunities on mages, you basically need someone in the party to deal with that anyway for BG2, so that's not the biggest argument. Archers are actually one of the better classes against mages, because their elemental damage arrows pierce through Stoneskin. With Firetooth, you can even load un-enchanted bolts that go through Protection from Magic Weapons *and* Stoneskin (the fire damage from Firetooth still happens and goes through SS). Also there is quite a few Arrows of Dispelling in BG2, that you can use to great effect.

I've really grown to like Archers a lot! Their power only tapers off in late BG2 and ToB, but before that they are unreal damage dealers, and even afterwards can help a lot with their wide array of utility ammo.

Madhax

Power level aside, I find archers to be very boring to play as. I want my PC to be the strategic focus of my party, but an archer is most a fire-and-forget class.

Awong124

He should have a personal servant to fetch him a rug every time he kills someone.

Wilbur

I stopped playing an elven archer in BG:EE after finding it so overpowered. Min-maxing did have something to do with it though.

LordRumfish

meowzor said:

is archer a good class for charname? also which NPC is good at using bows?

First, in a word: yes.

Second, if we're talking about BG1, the best NPC archers are Kivan and Coran. Minsc and Dorn can become quite proficient as well and they don't sacrifice much since they favor two-handed swords. Unfortunately spellcasters usually can't use bows, if it's a high-concept party I recommend Garrick since he can become decent with a longbow or a shortbow. Imoen is an obvious choice as thieves go for bows, but if you get to Safana before she starts as level 4 you can easily give her shortbow proficiency and she's fine at it.

Elendar

LordRumfish said:

Unfortunately spellcasters usually can't use bows.

You mean single-classed spellcasters can't use bows. :P

karnor00

I think there are a few main reasons archers lose effectiveness in late BG2 compared to BG1.

Firstly bows give 2 attacks/round. That's equivalent to a dual wielding fighter in BG1. However higher level fighters get more attacks, swinging the balance in their favour. Improved haste swings it even further in their favour.

Secondly it's very easy to get high strength in BG2 whereas in BG1 many fighters don't get much of a strength bonus. In BG2 there are enough strength girdles for all the melee fighters to get at least 19 strength which is +7 damage/hit. Bows don't get strength bonuses to damage.

Thirdly the melee weapons in BG2 get a lot more powerful. BG1 melee weapons are +2 at best with no additional benefits. BG2 has things like the flail of ages : a +5 weapon with +10 elemental damage and a no-save slow on hit. The missile weapons on the other hand don't progress much from BG1 to BG2.

karnor00

Lord_Tansheron said:

With Firetooth, you can even load un-enchanted bolts that go through Protection from Magic Weapons *and* Stoneskin (the fire damage from Firetooth still happens and goes through SS).

Neat trick. Although don't enemy mages also use Protection from Normal Missiles as well which would prevent it working? Or doesn't PfNM stack with PfMW?

reedmilfam

The crossbowman alternate is a little more effective later on, as some enemies need higher magical bonuses to be hit, and bolts are more available at the high + to hit level. In order of preference for TOB:

1) Crossbow
2) Shortbow
3) Longbow

I still haven't seen if darts/slings get the archer's bonuses, but remember reading somewhere that they do. If that's true, darts would be amazing (although you'd have trouble carrying enough of them, as they'd be tossing 3 a round early, and that's before you start adding proficiency points.

Anyway, in BG1, the archer is borderline OP. Constant spell interruption (or death) for enemy spell casters and the archer doesn't need help felling opponents (so I assign the rest of the party to other targets). They get weak close up (melee), so that's the only downside.