I think there are a few main reasons archers lose effectiveness in late BG2 compared to BG1.
Firstly bows give 2 attacks/round. That's equivalent to a dual wielding fighter in BG1. However higher level fighters get more attacks, swinging the balance in their favour. Improved haste swings it even further in their favour.
Rangers (and thus Archers) are a fighter-type class. Their APR progress the same as regular fighters, and since ranged weapon base APR is basically the same as dual-wield, the only APR they lose is from using a +APR offhand. That can be mitigated by having a bow/xbow with +APR such as Tuigan Bow or Army Scythe. Improved Haste affects both classes similarly. In fact, given that IH "wastes" some of its value on dual-wielders by giving them a second off-hand attack, you could even argue that Archers benefit more from the APR gain of IH.
Secondly it's very easy to get high strength in BG2 whereas in BG1 many fighters don't get much of a strength bonus. In BG2 there are enough strength girdles for all the melee fighters to get at least 19 strength which is +7 damage/hit. Bows don't get strength bonuses to damage.
While it's true most bows don't benefit from STR bonuses, keep in mind that Archers do get a stacking passive damage bonus from their kit: +1 dmg/thac0 per 3 levels. They eventually match, and then surpass fighter STR bonuses in BG2.
Thirdly the melee weapons in BG2 get a lot more powerful. BG1 melee weapons are +2 at best with no additional benefits. BG2 has things like the flail of ages : a +5 weapon with +10 elemental damage and a no-save slow on hit. The missile weapons on the other hand don't progress much from BG1 to BG2.
With this I agree. While you can make great use of bows/xbows and their various ammo types in early to mid SoA, when you eventually acquire all the superpowered melee weapons it is very hard for ranged to compete. It's also true that basically all of the best ranged weapons can be acquired incredibly early in SoA - and one of them is, in fact, a BG1 weapon (Army Scythe).
Nevertheless, I find Archers useful and strong. Keep in mind that BG1 and early/mid SoA are not an insignificant part of the game. You need to *get* those busted endgame weapons first after all! And though Archers taper off in their effectiveness later on, they aren't useless. Their ammo can still be used to great effect and with great flexibility, and a little reduced endgame power is I think an okay trade for their complete and utter early/midgame dominance.
Basically, if you want a viable ranged combatant late in BG2, an Archer is the best way to go about it. The damage bonuses on bows and crossbows in BG2 are severely lacking (unless you count ammunition stacking), and so the damage bonuses from the Archer class are the only way to keep up; you don't get much in the way of useful utility effects from late game bows either, aside from the obvious utility of being able to attack at range, and there's the problem of only Gesen and Firetooth being able to hit at a +4 or better for damaging certain enemies.
Note also that the rate of gain for the Archer's hit and damage bonuses slows down after level 18. At that point, they'll be able to match the equivalent of 18/00 strength, but it will take them until level 28 (6 million exp) to match 20 Str for damage.
That said, as @Lord_Tansheron points out, an Archer will make BG1 and a good portion of SoA go much more smoothly, and if you want a ranged combatant in ToB to be useful at all, they pretty much need to be an Archer (or a Kensai thrower, or maybe a Swashbuckler) to keep up.
Why has no one mentioned the poor quality of arrows in BG2 yet?
In BG2, good magical arrows are harder to find than good magical swords. While you can get several types of +3 swords early in BG2 (Celestial Fury/Lilarcor/Blade of Roses), you don't get +3 arrows until Watcher's Keep/Throne of Bhaal. And even then, these arrows come in limited supply. This is very annoying, since it appears to me that higher + arrows are required for damage penetration. Because of this, many archers have to eventually switch to Bow of Gesen/Firetooth so they can do any damage at all.
It's not just the lack of good new magical arrows. The old arrows that used to be good in BG1 are now nerfed in BG2: Acid arrows - 2d6 acid damage lowered to d3 acid damage Fire arrows - 1d6 fire damage lowered to d2 fire damage
Archery is pretty weak in BG2. The Archer kit gets tons of bonuses to missile combat and is therefore competitive despite this fact. But other archer builds (e.g. thief/fighter) just aren't that strong.
@Silence Indeed, and it means that in many cases ranged damage goes down in BG2 relative to BG1. In BG1, you can pair, say, the composite bow +1 with Arrows +2 and get a consistent +5 damage to each attack (or use an elemental arrow for even more); in BG2 most bows give +1 damage (if that) and arrows better than +2 come in a limited supply (with elemental arrows nerfed), so part of those damage bonuses from archer are needed to just offset the damage loss between games.
How bizarre. Archery is so useful in BG1, it seems odd they would set you up for disappointment in BG2. Well, I can hope that the EE will fix this, ranged weapons, especially bows, are a classic staple of fantasy.
Dexterity is the most important, Since it give you more AC and better THAC0 with slings/Darts. Has a Sorcerer you wont get any thing for having more then 16 constitution.
I'd even go so far as to say 15 CON as there is a +1 Tome in game. Sure, you can use it on someone else, but what's the point in that? They (your NPCs) don't keep the stat bonus between BG1 and BG2 anyway, so might as well put it into your PC.
STR is also useful for carrying capacity. I wouldn't go 18 STR, but yeah. I wouldn't go 8 either. Finally, CHA is important because that increases your reaction adjustment to NPCs and at stores. So in descending order
DEX - go as high as possible CON - 15 max (or 16 if you want to use the Tome on someone else) STR - mid but not High unless you have points to burn CHA - Excellent for reactions WIS - for Wish spells later, although there are potions that do the same thing.
How bizarre. Archery is so useful in BG1, it seems odd they would set you up for disappointment in BG2. Well, I can hope that the EE will fix this, ranged weapons, especially bows, are a classic staple of fantasy.
If the allow strength to be added to damage with slings and thrown daggers like they did in BGEE, then those two categories will get a shot in the arm. The Boomerang and Fire Tooth (not to be confused with Firetooth) daggers were decent before; getting the strength bonus will put them in top tier. And slings in BG2 actually get damage bonuses commensurate with their magical +, unlike the bows and crossbows. If they bump the damage bonus of existing bows or add new ones with better effects, along with maybe preserving the variety and power of ammunition from BG1, archers will be in better shape.
It's not just the lack of good new magical arrows. The old arrows that used to be good in BG1 are now nerfed in BG2: Acid arrows - 2d6 acid damage lowered to d3 acid damage Fire arrows - 1d6 fire damage lowered to d2 fire damage
There is very little reason for that change, and I'm personally immensely puzzled by it. If anything, it should be the OTHER way round! Well, thankfully there are mods so I don't have to deal with it, but still...
I don't like the pure archer class woud have fighter/thief and use my traps Whou have Shoth bow no reson go long bow it got fast atack to. Arows that is use full: Arrow of dispelling Arrow of detonation Poisened Arrow And 3 Elemtal arrows.
But in bg 2 manny of moster is imune to percing atacks So you need to get hold of party mebers fill other weak ness that you have.
Second, if we're talking about BG1, the best NPC archers are Kivan and Coran. Minsc and Dorn can become quite proficient as well and they don't sacrifice much since they favor two-handed swords. Unfortunately spellcasters usually can't use bows, if it's a high-concept party I recommend Garrick since he can become decent with a longbow or a shortbow. Imoen is an obvious choice as thieves go for bows, but if you get to Safana before she starts as level 4 you can easily give her shortbow proficiency and she's fine at it.
Actually Khalid can become a great archer as well. He has a 16 Dex, so he loses 2 THAC0 from Kivan (+1 Dex, +1 Elf) but then gains +1 from getting 3 pips, so he only ends up 1 behind. The trade-off is that he can get WAY more hp than either Kivan or Coran, and he doesn't have to worry about swapping out armor to use other abilities. So he can't use Composite Long Bows - your primary archer should be using Bow of Marksmanship anyway.
Also, Alora should get a mention here, she is a better archer than Imoen, assuming you want a thief using the Eagle Bow.
No one can touch Coran for archery other than an elven Archer kit CHARNAME, but you can't use Coran EVERY time.
The thing that makes Kivan such a monster is not just his potential but the fact that he's so close to it already. He comes specialized in longbows and that alone means he's going to be ahead of anyone else for a long time. Being able to use composite bows is a huge boon because the Composite +1 is available right at the beginning (and dirt cheap as far as endgame weapons go) while you have to go through a lot of the game to get the Longbow of Marksmanship. Archery shines early on and Kivan especially, so for that reason I have to give the crown to Kivan.
I do like Coran better overall because he's more fun to have around and can backstab.
Also, the specialization thing means Montaron is surprisingly deadly in the early game. Halfling, sling strength bonuses and an incredibly cheap +1 sling add up to make him a pretty useful ranged fighter.
Also, the specialization thing means Montaron is surprisingly deadly in the early game. Halfling, sling strength bonuses and an incredibly cheap +1 sling add up to make him a pretty useful ranged fighter.
Anybody with fighter levels and specialization can be nasty with slings in BGEE, as Arla's Dragonbane is +3/+3, +2 bullets are plentiful, and you get to add your strength modifier to damage. Throw on the Gauntlets of Ogre Power and you've got 2 APR hurling 1d4+14 bullets with considerable accuracy.
Vanilla BG2 only let you add the strength modifier to damage with the Sling of Seeking, though, which meant that slings fell by the wayside except for that one example. If the ability to add your strength modifier to damage applies to any sling in BG2EE, the Erinne Sling will be a force to be reckoned with.
Also, the specialization thing means Montaron is surprisingly deadly in the early game. Halfling, sling strength bonuses and an incredibly cheap +1 sling add up to make him a pretty useful ranged fighter.
Anybody with fighter levels and specialization can be nasty with slings in BGEE, as Arla's Dragonbane is +3/+3, +2 bullets are plentiful, and you get to add your strength modifier to damage. Throw on the Gauntlets of Ogre Power and you've got 2 APR hurling 1d4+14 bullets with considerable accuracy.
Vanilla BG2 only let you add the strength modifier to damage with the Sling of Seeking, though, which meant that slings fell by the wayside except for that one example. If the ability to add your strength modifier to damage applies to any sling in BG2EE, the Erinne Sling will be a force to be reckoned with.
Definitely. In one of my games I gave Monty the belt of hill giant strength and he was as much of a terror at range as Coran. But the lack of base APR hurts, and sling ammo in BGEE is nothing compared to arrows of dispelling/detonation. Maybe it's something that will be addressed come BG2EE...
Archer is fantastic if you use the right weaponry. They have enough weapon proficiencies for it: Long bow for BG:EE, Short bow for BG2. In BG2, use the Tuigan Bow(!!!!) with the best quiver of plenty you can get as early as you can get it; this setup can rival the end-game bows until you get enough improved hastes and whirlwind attacks for it to matter. Supplement with more powerful expendable arrows, followed by two proficiencies in sling for those +4 requiring edge cases (you can start with this, if you don't mind wasting the slots for BG:EE, or you can throw a proficiency at a melee weapon if you must). Make sure you use the sling of seeking and get the erinne sling at some point for the said edge cases. If you plan to go all the way through with an archer (instead of multiclassing to cleric at level 12/15 or so for a slingcaster), start with short bow in BG:EE; it's not that much worse than the long bow (most of the effectiveness comes from ammo choices in BG:EE anyway).
Comments
Well... Robin Hood was apparently a good guy, and he was an archer.
Archer's killed thousands of knights in the battle of Crecy, Poiters and Agincourt.
But I can't stand the tights... Or the hat... Or the silly mustache.
So no.
Nevertheless, I find Archers useful and strong. Keep in mind that BG1 and early/mid SoA are not an insignificant part of the game. You need to *get* those busted endgame weapons first after all! And though Archers taper off in their effectiveness later on, they aren't useless. Their ammo can still be used to great effect and with great flexibility, and a little reduced endgame power is I think an okay trade for their complete and utter early/midgame dominance.
Note also that the rate of gain for the Archer's hit and damage bonuses slows down after level 18. At that point, they'll be able to match the equivalent of 18/00 strength, but it will take them until level 28 (6 million exp) to match 20 Str for damage.
That said, as @Lord_Tansheron points out, an Archer will make BG1 and a good portion of SoA go much more smoothly, and if you want a ranged combatant in ToB to be useful at all, they pretty much need to be an Archer (or a Kensai thrower, or maybe a Swashbuckler) to keep up.
In BG2, good magical arrows are harder to find than good magical swords. While you can get several types of +3 swords early in BG2 (Celestial Fury/Lilarcor/Blade of Roses), you don't get +3 arrows until Watcher's Keep/Throne of Bhaal. And even then, these arrows come in limited supply. This is very annoying, since it appears to me that higher + arrows are required for damage penetration. Because of this, many archers have to eventually switch to Bow of Gesen/Firetooth so they can do any damage at all.
It's not just the lack of good new magical arrows. The old arrows that used to be good in BG1 are now nerfed in BG2:
Acid arrows - 2d6 acid damage lowered to d3 acid damage
Fire arrows - 1d6 fire damage lowered to d2 fire damage
Archery is pretty weak in BG2. The Archer kit gets tons of bonuses to missile combat and is therefore competitive despite this fact. But other archer builds (e.g. thief/fighter) just aren't that strong.
STR is also useful for carrying capacity. I wouldn't go 18 STR, but yeah. I wouldn't go 8 either. Finally, CHA is important because that increases your reaction adjustment to NPCs and at stores. So in descending order
DEX - go as high as possible
CON - 15 max (or 16 if you want to use the Tome on someone else)
STR - mid but not High unless you have points to burn
CHA - Excellent for reactions
WIS - for Wish spells later, although there are potions that do the same thing.
Whou have Shoth bow no reson go long bow it got fast atack to.
Arows that is use full:
Arrow of dispelling
Arrow of detonation
Poisened Arrow
And 3 Elemtal arrows.
But in bg 2 manny of moster is imune to percing atacks
So you need to get hold of party mebers fill other weak ness that you have.
Also, Alora should get a mention here, she is a better archer than Imoen, assuming you want a thief using the Eagle Bow.
No one can touch Coran for archery other than an elven Archer kit CHARNAME, but you can't use Coran EVERY time.
I do like Coran better overall because he's more fun to have around and can backstab.
Also, the specialization thing means Montaron is surprisingly deadly in the early game. Halfling, sling strength bonuses and an incredibly cheap +1 sling add up to make him a pretty useful ranged fighter.
Vanilla BG2 only let you add the strength modifier to damage with the Sling of Seeking, though, which meant that slings fell by the wayside except for that one example. If the ability to add your strength modifier to damage applies to any sling in BG2EE, the Erinne Sling will be a force to be reckoned with.