Share Your Wild Mage "Best Practices" For The Class

marceror

In all the years I've played BG I've never run a Wild Mage, until now with Neera. I just hate the idea that I could potentially lose most/all of my money any time I cast a spell, among other negative possibilities. On the other hand, a lot of players love Wild Mages and swear that they are overpowered.

So all you Wild Mage experts out there, help me (and anyone else in my position) to understand how to make the most of my wild mage.

Is it just about the fact that they get an extra spell per level, with no prohibited class (albeit with a 5% chance of spells going haywire).

Is it the fact that they can cast Nahal's Reckless Dweomer, and potentially cast high level spells with a first level spell slot? This spell is described as a "last resort" but is this actually a staple spell used by a lot of Wild Mage players? Do most Wild Mages run with Chaos Shield up to minimize the chance of harmful wild surges?

It seems like a Wild Mage would be a lot more effective in Shadows of Amn/ToB since their caster level will be so much higher. So is it the high level Wild Mage that really shines, and I shouldn't expect too much out of them in BGEE?

Spill please! I'm ready, at last, to really give this class a close look. And even though Neera is nearly level 7 in my game, I really don't know if I'm playing her abilities to the fullest. I tend to cast a Chaos Shield before tough fights, but otherwise just use her as a regular mage (who sometimes doesn't come through on her castings).

Class is officially in session!

Alexisisinneed

About using Nahal's Reckless Dweomer, I wouldn't have it take up the majority of 1st level spell slots. Because even with Chaos Shield bad stuff tends to happen early on. But as you level up it becomes more stable, but it really is suppose to be used as a last resort. I tend to use it if I ran out of despell's or need to do some kind of major damage to foes and I'm all out of my good spells. I've had times when Neera saves the day using NRD and times when she kills the party. Also I don't even us NRD until I can cast Chaos Shield. It's really not worth the risk at that point in the game. My only other piece of advice unless you're playing a no reload game is to save often.

CoryNewb

Quick save is a wild mages best meta.

Silverstar

marceror said:

but is this actually a staple spell used by a lot of Wild Mage players? Do most Wild Mages run with Chaos Shield up to minimize the chance of harmful wild surges?

I have about half her level 1 spells as Nahal's. I use it actively to launch fireballs or, more importantly since I have Compulsory Mapping Disorder, Clairvoyance. Sure things go bad every now and then, but that's what [Q] and [L] are for (quicksave/quickload). Chaos Shield I do not use at all; in combat the wild surges make things interesting and outside of combat I have quickload if something goes bad.

I can't recommend using wild mages this way, but I have fun with it personally. And having fun is what games are all about

marceror

So what makes them "overpowered"? I can see how Nahal's has that potential, but if you are as likely to kill your party as the enemy, that's a pretty hefty drawback to the power.

And what is it about Wild Mages that makes people love playing them? I still think I must be missing something.

Alexisisinneed

marceror said:

So what makes them "overpowered"? I can see how Nahal's has that potential, but if you are as likely to kill your party as the enemy, that's a pretty hefty drawback to the power.

And what is it about Wild Mages that makes people love playing them? I still think I must be missing something.

I don't find them to be any more powerful then any other mage, but I think it's the whole chance feature that's part of their power that puts a bit more tension on the game then an average wizard does.

Corvino

There are things like stacking 3 improved chaos shields in a sequencer of some kind that gets the bonus to stack. This with a mid-level wild mage gets rid of 90% of bad surge results for NRD. At this point you can just use your level 1 spells as timestops, pretty much.

OperativeNL

Well for me the chance to lose all your gold, change gender or not make the spell go off is actually a good thing. After playing the game for so long, every time relying on thinking of the perfect character build and getting things done the right way, it's quite refreshing to just sit back and watch the chaos happen when it does. At least it keeps me on my toes

Lateralus

The smart players realize that reliability is much more valuable than unpredictability, when it comes to fireballs. So, if you're going to bring Neera along, you need to keep her away from the rest of the party. Because, she can wipe out your archers. Protect charname with fire rest., a ring of prot. from fire, icing death, helm of defense, potions, spells, and scrolls. If you can't meet the above conditions, than have her use only wands and scrolls.

Ygramul

Additional constraint for the exercise (for those willing to play):
NO-RELOADS.

(Since Power Word:Reload can undo any Wild Surges, you may as well not play a Wild Mage otherwise.)

Here is the lowdown of your chances:

DO. NOT. CAST. IN. PUBLIC. Really,
what are you gonna do if you get a Gate in Beregost, or a
Fireball:self amid Flaming Fist headcourters. Cast only at the enemies
(and do not ever buff the charname with a wild mage!)

This is just with Neera, by the way. I doubt anyone ever finished a
no-reload run with a Wild Mage charname:
Here are the odds:
there are about ~10/100 wild surges that act as "kill the caster" at
low levels (even at high levels, "Petrify:self" will usually kill you,
even if you might survive a fireball to the face then)
If you cast 1000 spells through a no-reload run, you will have about
50 surges and your survival chance throughout the run comes to about
0.5% -- yep, just half a percent, even if you play an otherwise
perfect game.
(0.1 chance of death per surge -> 0.9^50 = 0.0052 chance of surviving 50 surges)

Severon

Im playing a Cleric/Wild Mage at the moment. Its hilarious. I never know whats going to happen with any spell I cast. Makes my game much more interesting.

Flashburn

You can use NRD as a substitute for Improved Alacrity. Using it after casting a spell gets rid of the pause between casting another one. You could even chain castings of NRD one after the other if you wanted to, though thats extremely dangerous.

Kneller

I like wild mages for the risk factor. The nice little surprises you get from the wild surges keeps things fresh and interesting. I wouldn't say that that the are overpowered unless you reload like mad. That's a loser move, though. Wild Surges are not a game over. They might set you back a bit, but you can survive. Also, when I play a wild mage, ALL my level 1 spells are NRD and I almost never use the Chaos Shields. On top of that, my wild mages' favored spell is always NRD.

Eudaemonium

Severon said:

Im playing a Cleric/Wild Mage at the moment. Its hilarious. I never know whats going to happen with any spell I cast. Makes my game much more interesting.

Does doing this add wild surges to your cleric spells as well? O_o;;

onan

My best strategy is to stay away from wild mages. The pit fiend incident... is still very fresh.

nano

Ygramul said:

Here are the odds:
there are about ~10/100 wild surges that act as "kill the caster" at
low levels (even at high levels, "Petrify:self" will usually kill you,
even if you might survive a fireball to the face then)
If you cast 1000 spells through a no-reload run, you will have about
50 surges and your survival chance throughout the run comes to about
0.5% -- yep, just half a percent, even if you play an otherwise
perfect game.
(0.1 chance of death per surge -> 0.9^50 = 0.0052 chance of surviving 50 surges)

That's not really true... petrify only happens when you're casting on yourself or you manage roll the double effect target self+petrify. If you take precautions you can greatly reduce the chance of a wild surge killing you (eg get a second caster to cast protection from petrification on you).

50 wild surges is a lot. That's 1000 spells. I definitely don't cast that many in one game of BGEE.

mylegbig

They're quite powerful if you're willing to reload. I often used Neera to cast Cloudkill with NRD, which can wipe out just about anything in BG1.

Heindrich

Hmm... I must say I am somewhat disappointed by the answers to OP, who pretty much asked what I was planning to ask before my next BG EE run.

I really wanna try out Neera and hopefully stick with her throughout BG 2 EE, cos it'd be nice to have a pure class non-evil mage in my mostly goody-goodie party. However it sounds as if Wild Mage (along with trap-setting and pickpocketing thieves) almost encourages Save/Load by design, whereas I regard it as basically cheating.

@Ygramul

If I take the precautions as you mentioned, is it at all possible to complete BG EE with limited reloads? I haven't decided 'how limited' yet, but I want each death to have some consequence, maybe in terms of gold loss and/or Ability Stat loss... Is Neera is gonna be a huge liability?

I guess my question is... Can you get the perks of a Wild Mage without exploiting Quick Save/Load? And is the downside manageable? I try to roleplay my games, so I will take precautions where possible, as if Neera and company cared whether she blew up everyone in the middle of Beregost.

Actually can somebody clarify if I understand Wild Mages correctly... their two special spells are Nahal's Reckless Dweomer and Chaos Shield. Chaos Shield reduces the risk of a Wild Surge, NRD increases it... But you have no control over the result of a Wild Surge... which begs the question, when/why would you ever WANT a Wild Surge?

Ygramul

I have OCD about reloads:

There is HUGE difference between never reloading vs having any kind of reload, even once.
No-reloads means you don't ever take chances that kill you.
(Think about the real life analogy there.)

For a Wild Mage: you can probably finish the game still after your mistaken Pit Fiend slaughters Beregost. Maybe. But the possibility will likely keep you from trying silly things often. (Seriously, buffing charname with Neera is just asking for it. *You* wouldn't do it if it was your life at stake.)

Trinab

NRD ALWAYS gives you a wild surge, with the aim of casting a specific spell. So if you have Chaos Shield and Improved Chaos shield on, you have a high chance of a good spell result. A roll of 100 means the spell is cast normally. So you basically can cast -any- spell in your spellbook by using a level 1 slot.

Ygramul

Incidentally, that also means almost never trying Nahal's Reckless Dweomer.

... unless you know you are about to die and it is a true last resort:
e.g.
Charname is incapacitated; all other party members dead; Neera has a memorized Chaos spell (lvl 5; needs char lvl 9) even though Neera is herself lvl 3. As a last resort you may try Nahal's Reckless Dweomer to cast Chaos -- in the event it goes out you may still win the encounter.

At high levels (say in BG2EE, with Neera at lvl 20 and under Improved Chaos Shield, this can become viable reliable strategy -- not in BGEE.)

nano

I think you guys are overestimating the danger of wild surges. Last time I used Neera the only surge I reloaded from was an early fireball and even then it wasn't a game ender. I wouldn't recommend using NRD but she certainly works as a mage even if she isn't very good. The worst part is not so much the surge itself as the fact that the spell doesn't go off.

marceror

I can say that I have been casting with Neera since I got her, and haven't had anything drastic happen. I have only cast NRD once, and I was actually successful in getting off a 3rd level spell with it. But otherwise I only have 1 memorized at character level 6 and just generally don't ever use it. Nothing too horrible has happened with her regular 5% wild surge chance that she has on any spell she casts. A few spells have gone batty, but no serious damage done... yet. Really thinking NRD will probably see more use in BG2EE, due to the reduced chance of bad effects. Maybe by ToB I will be able to use it with I. Chaos Shield fairly reliably.

But yeah, still not hearing from the "Wild Mages are Overpowered" crowd that I've seen posting around the Net for so many years. Funny that they seem to disappear when I start asking for strategies. So far the OP claim seems to be largely baseless, due to the huge drawbacks the class has.

AstroBryGuy

Heindrich1988 said:

Hmm... I must say I am somewhat disappointed by the answers to OP, who pretty much asked what I was planning to ask before my next BG EE run.

I really wanna try out Neera and hopefully stick with her throughout BG 2 EE, cos it'd be nice to have a pure class non-evil mage in my mostly goody-goodie party. However it sounds as if Wild Mage (along with trap-setting and pickpocketing thieves) almost encourages Save/Load by design, whereas I regard it as basically cheating.

@Ygramul

If I take the precautions as you mentioned, is it at all possible to complete BG EE with limited reloads? I haven't decided 'how limited' yet, but I want each death to have some consequence, maybe in terms of gold loss and/or Ability Stat loss... Is Neera is gonna be a huge liability?

I guess my question is... Can you get the perks of a Wild Mage without exploiting Quick Save/Load? And is the downside manageable? I try to roleplay my games, so I will take precautions where possible, as if Neera and company cared whether she blew up everyone in the middle of Beregost.

Actually can somebody clarify if I understand Wild Mages correctly... their two special spells are Nahal's Reckless Dweomer and Chaos Shield. Chaos Shield reduces the risk of a Wild Surge, NRD increases it... But you have no control over the result of a Wild Surge... which begs the question, when/why would you ever WANT a Wild Surge?

Wild mages have two random effects: caster level and wild surges.

Whenever a wild mage casts a spell, her caster level can vary by up to +/-5 from her actual level. So, at 7th level, Neera might cast 5d6 fireball or a 10d6 fireball!

Wild mages also have a 5% chance of a Wild Surge with any spell they cast. The Wild Surge table generally has the "bad" surges at the low end of the table and the "good" surges at the high end of the table (see link below), with "spell casts normally" being result 100 (or above).

http://www.planetbaldursgate.com/bg2/character/classes/tables/wildsurge.shtml

Chaos Shield/Improved Chaos Shield don't reduce the risk of a wild surge, they improve the chances of a good result on a wild surge by adding a modifier to your wild surge check.

Nahal's Reckless Dweomer allows the wild mage to attempt to cast any spell in her spellbook, but it guarantees a surge. However, it adds the caster's level to the wild surge check, meaning that a high level wild mage has a real chance of getting the "spell casts normally" or other "good" result (especially if she's got Chaos Shields up).

The best use of a wild mage is AoE spells cast at enemies. Since many of the wild surges affect the target, that reduces the chances of harming party members directly. I wouldn't take a wild mage on a no-reload game, but you can do a minimal reload game (e.g., no reloading unless Neera kills the protagonist).

Some recommended spells for Neera: Chromatic Orb (random caster level = random effect!), Spook (Spook + wild surge to 60' radius = fun!), Glitterdust, Web, Fireball (of course!), Slow. Stay away from buffs! Get her the Shield Amulet.

Have fun storming the castle!

nano

marceror said:

But yeah, still not hearing from the "Wild Mages are Overpowered" crowd that I've seen posting around the Net for so many years. Funny that they seem to disappear when I start asking for strategies. So far the OP claim seems to be largely baseless, due to the huge drawbacks the class has.

It's not "overpowered" until you can start making use of NRD, and you can't make use of NRD until you get more levels, so until then your best strategy is just to try not to blow yourself up. There's really no shortcuts I can give you. Just take the necessary precautions to minimize the weaknesses until your strengths come into play.

I wouldn't call it overpowered, though, and I've not seen anyone else claim it either - while her theoretical power is immense, as you've noticed it comes with certain drawbacks. You can mitigate them but many people still find they outweigh the benefits.

Kneller

Heindrich1988 said:

I guess my question is... Can you get the perks of a Wild Mage without exploiting Quick Save/Load? And is the downside manageable?

I've played Wild Mages more than any other class in this game. I'm sure I've used NRD more than most players and I can count the times I've used Chaos Shield on one hand. I have yet to have a holy-sh*t-we're-all-screwed-I-absolutely-have-to-reload experience. I mean, I've had things go pretty bad, but in a fun way.

marceror

I once lost all my gold while playing in Watcher's Keep, in one of the levels where wild magic occurs. I had a lot of gold. I was not amused.

That as much as anything has turned me off to the class over the years. Maybe it was really bad luck that I had that effect.

nano

marceror said:

I once lost all my gold while playing in Watcher's Keep, in one of the levels where wild magic occurs. I had a lot of gold. I was not amused.

That as much as anything has turned me off to the class over the years. Maybe it was really bad luck that I had that effect.

Yeah, I came across a thread where the consequences of that particular effect were being hotly debated. Personally I don't think it's all that crippling as I try to spend my money before it gets high... and if you're just going to hoard money, does it really matter if it disappears? There's only that one place where you need money to continue and if you plan around it you can eliminate the risk. But if you're not aware of it, you can certainly shoot yourself in the foot. In any case, that's neither here nor there as many people argued that it was too harsh and I think it might have been changed for BGEE. Maybe? Something like 1/6 of the money disappearing, since that's what one character is carrying.

Night_Watch

Ever memory + NRD = all sorts of fun and games

I usually never reload when playing a wild mage. The only time I do is if charname dies (which is often D=)

It's really entertaining in BG:EE since the low levels mean higher chances of madness occurring. My first level spell slots have only NRD =p

marceror

nano said:

marceror said:

But yeah, still not hearing from the "Wild Mages are Overpowered" crowd that I've seen posting around the Net for so many years. Funny that they seem to disappear when I start asking for strategies. So far the OP claim seems to be largely baseless, due to the huge drawbacks the class has.

It's not "overpowered" until you can start making use of NRD, and you can't make use of NRD until you get more levels, so until then your best strategy is just to try not to blow yourself up. There's really no shortcuts I can give you. Just take the necessary precautions to minimize the weaknesses until your strengths come into play.

I wouldn't call it overpowered, though, and I've not seen anyone else claim it either - while her theoretical power is immense, as you've noticed it comes with certain drawbacks. You can mitigate them but many people still find they outweigh the benefits.

Well, I know I've heard it claimed many times, but it seems not to be the case. I won't look for Neera to be overpowered. While I've picked up a few nice tips in this thread (thanks), it sounds like my original feelings about the class more or less stand.

Wild Mage isn't a class that I'll likely ever run for my protagonist, but I'm enjoying having Neera as a way of giving it a try, likely the first and only time I will do so, I expect.

Anyhow, once again, my appreciation to the "instructors" who stepped up to provide their wisdom on this topic!

dreamrider

Without going into my definitions of "Bad" and "Good" are other than to say that Bad includes dying/killing party, and Good includes the spell going off (mostly) normally, here are the actual proportions of effects from the BG:EE Wild Surge table (before applying Chaos Shield):

24 Bad results
46 Good results
6 Spell fail, but beneficial after combat results
24 Spell fail, otherwise neutral results

Many of the potential "Bads" can be guarded against via proper party/character prep, and proper tactics.

Nahal's Reckless Dweomer+Improved Chaos Shield+lvl 10 (+35 to WS table roll) reduces Bad results to ~12, none of them directly lethal.

Further note. The Lose Gold effects, party or target, are now 20% gold. Further, you can protect a lot against this by never cashing in your best gems, etc, until you need the cash, and - well - caching them.

From about Level 10 on up, this class is a powerhouse, if managed correctly. Below that definitely requires restraint and tactical planning of spell selection, protections, target selection, and caster positioning.

Like many have said, I wouldn't buff with a low-level WM, but pre battle buffing at Level 10 and above should be pretty safe. (Except - see below :-D .)

BTW, the demon summoning result is #54, so in high stakes late game you should be safe from it. That result currently reads, "Summon demon to attack target". Not sure if that means free action for the demon after the target is down or not, but at least there should be a little time to run. :-)

For those who have complained in this thread about how many immediately fatal results there are on the WS Table, please be aware that there are no IMMEDIATELY lethal effects on the WS Table, and no petrification. There are 8 POTENTIALLY lethal results, depending mainly on the Wild Mages HP and spell level roll, and only 2 of those are north of #31.

FWIW, despite the orientation of Adoy's Belt, fire resistance is wa-a-ay more important for a Wild Mage than protection from petrification/polymorph, especially if the party includes another caster.