And how can you be so sure you won't be harming anyone else? When you're high or stoned, your actions sometimes become unpredictable. You never know what you will be doing.
Ignoring that is in fact not usually the case with marijuana, how does that differ from alcohol? Are you advocating the illegalisation of alcohol?
And your family, girlfriend/wife, friends (those with some healthy common sense, of couse) will certainly like seeing you ruin yourself.
You have an unrealistic, presumably media-driven idea of what marijuana is like. Kitteh, I'm Canadian, and Canada has some of the highest marijuana usage rates in the world. I will tell you, and this is true, that back a very long time ago when I was in grade 12 of high school, I literally (a word I use knowing what it means) did not know anybody that did NOT smoke marijuana. Not that they didn't exist, just that everyone I knew well enough in my graduating class in high school to say did it. I have many friends and family members that I know smoke marijuana (I don't myself, BTW, although I've tried it before).
They were not all people that "ruined themselves". In fact, only one person I know of suffered deleterious effects from marijuana consumption (beyond a heightened risk of later lung cancer), and it was a worsening of a preexisting mental condition (paranoia), and also required years of very heavy consumption (far more than most people) before their mental state had an obvious downturn from it.
Marijuana is not completely harmless, but you have wildly unrealistic fantasies about how dangerous it is. Smoking marijuana will almost certainly not "ruin" you. People do not tend to smoke marijuana and then run around doing wild stunts and crazy things (very occasionally it reacts badly with a preexisting mental condition, as above, but even so it's still far less dangerous than alcohol statistically). It tends to make people get giggly and eat a lot and find things fascinating that they'd never normally notice or care about. It's not a very addictive drug (and it isn't physically addictive), and really, you are tilting at a windmill that I would say you were silly for dwelling so much on were I not aware that your viewpoint is being shaped by decades of scaremongering propaganda.
I don't blame you for that, but scaremongering propaganda is all it is. Marijuana isn't harmless, yes. But it's also not very dangerous, to the best current scientific knowledge on the subject. It is a lot less harmful than many legal substances. Given that, there is no factual basis for it being illegal even if you think the government has a right to legislate what a human being can put in their own body.
Besides, legalizing such shit only promotes its use for people who have problems. They will drown themselves in drug abuse instead of actually getting some help in solving their problems. Taking drugs will become triple as easy now. The seduction will become so much bigger. Feeling depressed? Just take some good shot of marijuana! You'll feel better like never before! But don't expect it to solve any of your problems! Sorry, but that just makes me sad.
I already pointed this out, but you're wrong; decriminalisation and education actually lower drug addiction levels (as well as greatly lowering deaths from crime, adulterated drugs, needle sharing, etc.).
Plus, marijuana's not exactly an obvious drug to take for depression, as it's a depressant itself (although googling shows some scientific studies show it causes depression or worsens it, and others contradictorily seem to indicate it can help treat it, which at a random guess I would put down to the fact depression can have different causes).
And of course, yet again, I'll point out your scary scenario about turning to drugs instead of trying to fix your problems also applies just as well to alcohol, and indeed many, many people abuse alcohol as a crutch to deal with stress and depression in life. So once again: are you advocating alcohol being made illegal? And if not, how can you say your viewpoint is consistent?
@Kitteh_On_A_Cloud - Try to look at it this way: Weed is a resurgent drug in which more and more people are smoking recreationally every day. It has very few negative factors, especially when you compare it to say: Alcohol. It does however have medical benefits that many find eases the pain of some serious diseases.
As long as weed is illegal, people will find a way to buy it illegally (still the case in Maine it looks like), and as long as people are buying it illegally there will be gangs, violence, crime and murder.
It has been proven in the past and in countries such as Holland (friendliest and happiest country I have ever been to) that legalising such popular substances limits crime and removes a powerful source of wealth from potential crime syndicates.
Remember what alcohol prohibition brought the USA: Al Capone. It also ended up being one of the most expensive and pointless law operations in US history.
Here's a fun fact for you: The only reason it is illegal in most countries is because it is difficult to regulate. It is difficult to regulate because if weed is legalised people will start growing it in their shed with a few seeds and UV lamps. If it is difficult to regulate: Governments cannot apply a tax to it and if more people start recreationally smoking pot, less people will buy the heavily taxed substance known as alcohol. The hit to government resources will be substantial. (I don't necessarilly think it will work this way, but as far as I know: That's the big fear.)
I say all of this as an unbiased person who doesn't smoke marijuana.
Oh please. If you're gonna reply to my comment, please do so in a mature way. Marijuana, like any other drug, can cause serious harm to your body. Or maybe you like your body to be full of injection marks? Maybe you like to cause your nose to bleed after sniffing it? When seeing such things, I can only shake my head in disbelief, how some people can be so incredibly stupid to ruin their body. What about kids now? What example does this pose to them? That addiction is something you do for recreational fun? I can already see the youth walking stoned through the streets. I know drugs will be always there, that it can't be stopped. Yet I feel legalizing such shit just is immoral. It's like the government doesn't even try anymore. There will always be shit to put in your body...but you only have one body in this life.
Seriously, where did you learn about these things? It's not heroin, it's not cocaine, it's not meth, it's freakin' marijuana. Drinking coca cola is worse for your health than that. Youth will be walking stoned through the streets as much as they're walking drunk through the streets now; very rarely unless it's party nights.
It's been said a dozen times, but yes, alcohol is way more dangerous and yet it's not destroying the children (alcohol use has actually gone down over the last few decades, though the Media of course want you to believe every teenager is drinking themselves to death every weekend). It's rate of addiction is lower than Baldur's Gate's and to overdose on it would literally mean you've been chain-smoking it for days without rest.
Your worries have no basis in reality. They really, really don't. I'm not saying this because I disagree, I'm saying this because you're simply wrong in your estimation of how dangerous marijuana is. The fact that you believe it can be injected or snorted shows you have no idea what you're talking about. Calm down, don't get offended by people disagreeing with you and read up on the subject before passing judgement.
If it wasn't for the fact that smokers usually doesn't give a single fuck about non-smokers (smoking in public places, like near the enterance to universities, shops, while walking throught small narrow bridges, thus affecting all nearby passerby) I wouldn't mind at all if it was legalized everywhere. It' just that I don't want to be forced to feel "relaxed" or however they call it.
Addiction is a myth to a point and that point is dt shock and correct me if I am wrong but I think the only drugs that cause dt shock is Alcohol and heroin.
You should also keep in mind most drugs just emulate natural process of the body.
All that being said if they legalized good Hallucinogens I would be allot more chipper about it pot is like giving a computer a virus it takes some lsd, lsa, or dmt if you want to reboot the system. Though the world as we know it would fall apart if everyone could think clearly.
I also think pot though only a mild hallucinogen is a great tool for self reflection.
Next is the Magic Mirror Gate. Atreyu must face his true self. So what? That won't be too hard for him. That's what everyone thinks. But kind people find that they are cruel. Brave men discover they are really cowards. Confronted with their true selves... ...most men run away screaming.
and this is what they are referring when they talk about reefer madness or a bad trip and it is a very real thing, but the drugs are not to blame.
I don't get it. Why would something so lethal for your health get legalized?
I think we should also ban cars, cigarettes, alcohol and Lineage of course, because Koreans are specialist at dying while playing Lineage (and Startcraft and WoW and...any other game too )
Oh please. If you're gonna reply to my comment, please do so in a mature way. Marijuana, like any other drug, can cause serious harm to your body. Or maybe you like your body to be full of injection marks? Maybe you like to cause your nose to bleed after sniffing it? When seeing such things, I can only shake my head in disbelief, how some people can be so incredibly stupid to ruin their body. What about kids now? What example does this pose to them? That addiction is something you do for recreational fun? I can already see the youth walking stoned through the streets. I know drugs will be always there, that it can't be stopped. Yet I feel legalizing such shit just is immoral. It's like the government doesn't even try anymore. There will always be shit to put in your body...but you only have one body in this life.
I would say keeping marijuana illegal is immoral. Certainly at least if its anything more than a bylaw or commercial regulations. How many people have been thrown in jail or have had their lives seriously changed because they received a criminal conviction from selling or smoking a plant?
Besides, at least in Canada 73% of the money spent regarding drug policy is spent on enforcement. Only a handful of that is spent on treatment (around 14%). That was in 2004-2005, so since the conservatives have been in I'm guessing that would have shifted more towards enforcement than treatment but thats still just a guess. Even if Marijuana was horribly addicting (and I'm not saying it is) far more money is going towards enforcing against its sale and not towards treating those relative few that have had problems with it. There is also nothing to suggest that enforcement is more effective at preventing drug use than other methods. So from a cost-benefit standpoint I have to question why it is still illegal for individual users even if it was as harmful as you say.
Perfect. But just wait until your kids come home with a bag of marijuana. Maybe you'll react differently then. Or when your daughter's baby is suffering from mental and physical problems because your daughter was stupid enough to fill herself up with shit. Or when a friend of yours dies from an overdose. The examples you mentioned (chocolate, tea, etc) are still nowhere as dangerous and risky as real shit like softcore and hardcore drugs.
You are under the assumption that its a gateway drug. That notion has been thoroughly disproven. Sure some people who try marijuana go on to using harder drugs, but that doesn't mean the Marijuana caused them to do so.
Denver did this many years ago, and the state has since moved forward with full legal recreational use- don't move to Portland, come to Colorado!
It still blows my mind that I could actually light up sitting on my porch while waving politely to a passing beat cop and literally nothing would happen. In a few months, I'll be able to say the surreal phrase, "let's head down to the store and pick up some special brownies" with a straight face. Crazy.
Even though I'm actually not a big fan of the stuff myself, it's a relief to know that my friends and other people in the community aren't going to have their lives ruined anymore for getting caught with a substance less harmful than alcohol.
I don't get it. Why would something so lethal for your health get legalized?
Well, aside from what's already been pointed out about the relative dangerousness of marijuana compared to things that are legal:
Why exactly is it the government's business what I, as a legal adult sound in mind, choose to put into my body? If I want to take a recreational drug that may harm me, I don't see why that's anybody else's business unless I'm putting other people at risk; e.g., smoking pot and driving.
And how can you be so sure you won't be harming anyone else? When you're high or stoned, your actions sometimes become unpredictable. You never know what you will be doing. And your family, girlfriend/wife, friends (those with some healthy common sense, of couse) will certainly like seeing you ruin yourself. Besides, legalizing such shit only promotes its use for people who have problems. They will drown themselves in drug abuse instead of actually getting some help in solving their problems. Taking drugs will become triple as easy now. The seduction will become so much bigger. Feeling depressed? Just take some good shot of marijuana! You'll feel better like never before! But don't expect it to solve any of your problems! Sorry, but that just makes me sad.
Whoa, didn't see that this thread had become a debate about legalization.
The thing is, the people that you're worried about abusing substances are abusing those substances anyway. With legalization, we can focus on getting them help rather than throwing them in prison and marginalizing them for the rest of their lives .
For the sake of intellectual honesty, you should probably come out and say that you believe alcohol and cigarettes should be illegal. Then at least you would be ideologically consistent and we could debate the merits of legalizing/criminalizing controlled recreational substances in general. Given that it is easier to overdose on both nicotine and alcohol then it is to overdose on cannabis (essentially impossible to OD on), wouldn't it make sense to start there?
But nobody wants to suggest that... because we've already tried making alcohol illegal and that failed miserably. Just like the criminalization of cannabis.
Finally, if it is possible to take marijuana in the form of a "shot," please tell me how because I have some friends who would be totally interested in trying it out.
If it wasn't for the fact that smokers usually doesn't give a single fuck about non-smokers (smoking in public places, like near the enterance to universities, shops, while walking throught small narrow bridges, thus affecting all nearby passerby) I wouldn't mind at all if it was legalized everywhere. It' just that I don't want to be forced to feel "relaxed" or however they call it.
absolutely, 100% agree. even in a non smoking building, they always just stand right there at the door and I need to walk by. If there is a long line to a restaurant I may be standing outside right next to them for an extended duration.
I am not a smoker and no desire to be a smoker. However, I do agree also in the legalising reducing crime and providing taxes. really since they are around I would love for all of us to benefit from it as well and help with all this debt. however if it were legalised here then cigarette AND marijuana smokers will be standing there in public forcing me to take in the effect.
if we can make them legal for use in their own home then that is great. but i think it should still be illegal in public and punishable so that I don't need to be affected by their choices.
BG:EE + good weed results in utter confusion. "Why don't I remember where I have to go, I've played this game hundreds of times...wait where am I going? What was I doing? What class am i?". Much safer to stick to chocolate.
I know there is an intense "Drugs are bahd/drugs are gurd" debate going on in this thread at the moment, but I've said my piece.
For now, I am going to reminisce about my good old university years.
An XXL pepperoni passion pizza, a reclining armchair, 'The Big Lebowski' on DVD and random conversations that went something like: "Mate, if there was a fire - Would it burn through the wall before the fire door? or the fire door before the wall?" - and then phoning your room mate who studies architecture to settle the dispute.The answer was inconclusive and inconsequential.
If it wasn't for the fact that smokers usually doesn't give a single fuck about non-smokers (smoking in public places, like near the enterance to universities, shops, while walking throught small narrow bridges, thus affecting all nearby passerby) I wouldn't mind at all if it was legalized everywhere. It' just that I don't want to be forced to feel "relaxed" or however they call it.
absolutely, 100% agree. even in a non smoking building, they always just stand right there at the door and I need to walk by. If there is a long line to a restaurant I may be standing outside right next to them for an extended duration.
I am not a smoker and no desire to be a smoker. However, I do agree also in the legalising reducing crime and providing taxes. really since they are around I would love for all of us to benefit from it as well and help with all this debt. however if it were legalised here then cigarette AND marijuana smokers will be standing there in public forcing me to take in the effect.
if we can make them legal for use in their own home then that is great. but i think it should still be illegal in public and punishable so that I don't need to be affected by their choices.
Current legalization laws generally make it legal for home use only (eg you can't light up a joint outside of a bar). These laws regulate cannabis like alcohol: if it's illegal to walk down the sidewalk chugging from a bottle of vodka, it's illegal to walk down the sidewalk smoking a joint. All public inebriation laws etc apply similarly.
Since legalization in Colorado, I have *never* been exposed to cannabis smoke outside of someone's private property.
Unfortunately, the trend in some countries is the opposite, due to misinformed people I suppose.
I can see where they're coming from for the more dangerous stuff, but people will imbibe/smoke/snort/inject dangerous stuff regardless. Making such things legal keeps jails less of a massive drain and provides additional tax revenue, sounds like win-win to me.
Yes, but the more dangerous stuff is already non-legal. What I mean by an opposite trend is that tobacco, alcohol and (medicinal) drugs are getting more and more regulated in some countries, as opposed to the lifting of restrictions on drugs in other countries.
I have resisted the temptation to wade into this rather intense (and largely one-sided) debate, because I don't feel particularly informed about the specifics. But I would like to make some points:
Most of you are speaking as (probably) young Westerners, for whom 'pot' might be largely harmless, and public attitude to even harder drugs is relatively relaxed. Hell celebrities even publicly admit to taking drugs, part of the 'cool rock n' roll' lifestyle, which later provides some material for autobiographies where they explain how they 'grew up and got better'...
I am no expert, maybe cannabis isn't very harmful, and for sure I have no problems with its medicinal use... However, the way I see it, because it is seen as an illicit drug, never mind how dangerous it may or may not be, legalising it just sends out the wrong message about recreational drug use.
And for those of you who think recreational drug use should be legalised...
Let me remind you that for most of human history, a succession of Chinese empires accounted for between 1/4 to 1/3 of world GDP. Even in 1820, the Chinese Qing Empire's economic output was significantly greater than all of Western Europe combined, and still accounted for nearly 1/3 of global GDP, despite the Renaissance and Industrial Revolution in Europe. Less than 100 years later in 1913, The Qing Empire had collapsed into anarchy and Chinese GDP was now just 4.6% of global GDP.
What happened?
Opium.
Opium had been around for centuries, but never in large enough quantities to threaten social stability and welfare. However the British Empire conquered India in the late 18th Century, and decided to convert Indian farmland into poppy fields, to mass produce opium for the massive Chinese market (never mind that millions of Indians died of famine as a result). Of course the explosion in opium supply caused an explosion in opium use in China, where the authorities did not initially appreciate the scale and severity of the problem.
By the time Qing authorities realised the problem, it was too late. The Chinese economy had been crippled by a massive trade deficit caused by the opium trade, and around half of all Chinese men (much greater proportions in the coastal regions) were addicted to the drug, with crippling effects on society, the famous Civil Service, the Imperial Army etc. When the Qing Empire tried to end the British Opium trade and enforce prohibition laws, the British Empire launched the Opium Wars, which they won with ease, partly because the much of the Qing officer corps of the Imperial Army were also opium addicts, and the Qing Army and Navy barely functioned as a fighting force.
Chinese people today think of the Opium Wars as the beginning of our Century of Humiliation. Recreational drug use is rather central to that story and it is why China today has a zero-tolerance policy on drugs, and why I generally support it.
The truth is, recreational drug use IS harmful to individuals and societies.
@Heindrich1988 That's interesting, but opium is a "hard drug" and not a recreational drug. Ergo, I must conclude your argument is intriguing but invalid
'Recreational drugs' is any chemical stimulant intended to enhance whatever you are doing or feeling. Whether it is 'hard' or 'legal' are relatively arbitary distinctions based on cultural norms and local legislation.
For example alcohol and tobacco are as much of a recreational drug has cannabis or opium, but they are regarded as less harmful because they have so much social acceptance that they are viewed as part of the norm of social interactions. There are good cases to be made for prohibiting them as well, but most cultures and countries could never feasibly enforce a blanket alcohol/tobacco ban. (Though alcohol is largely banned in the Islamic world, something which seems draconian for non-Muslims).
I don't get it. Why would something so lethal for your health get legalized?
I think we should also ban cars, cigarettes, alcohol and Lineage of course, because Koreans are specialist at dying while playing Lineage (and Startcraft and WoW and...any other game too )
Oh please. If you're gonna reply to my comment, please do so in a mature way. Marijuana, like any other drug, can cause serious harm to your body. Or maybe you like your body to be full of injection marks? Maybe you like to cause your nose to bleed after sniffing it? When seeing such things, I can only shake my head in disbelief, how some people can be so incredibly stupid to ruin their body. What about kids now? What example does this pose to them? That addiction is something you do for recreational fun? I can already see the youth walking stoned through the streets. I know drugs will be always there, that it can't be stopped. Yet I feel legalizing such shit just is immoral. It's like the government doesn't even try anymore. There will always be shit to put in your body...but you only have one body in this life.
2. To mitigate black market and tax the hell out of it
To take the black market out of your country, you can esily use one of those zillions of Nukes that were created during the Cold War. Or use USA's giantic army to catch those guys, and the hung them in the parks, so everybody knows that it is a bad thing to do. If you do not agree with my Middle Age types of dealing with people, you will see it with my E-11 blaster rifle (in real life, I'm not violent, but Law is there, not to be broken, to be accomplished without pride and questions). I can say the worst trouble is with teenagers and kids since society tells them that "the pot is good" (society, based on thing that are not needed at all, its more dangerous than liquid hidrogen or anything you could find in the earth) most of them will start smoking, drinking and all those activities they consider "cool", like going to a casino, loosing all your money and spending the night with a girl that you never met before. As a teenager (somebody is impressed?? I ever say, if hummanity is evil, I'll surely more evil than it, wishing to have a world without it) I can say most of my friends would consider this good, I never could do such a thing, think about me as I am Lawful Good?? You must be thinking about somebody else, I am both Chaotic Good and Lawful Evil, if you want to simplify, I'm True Neutral, but I'm very concerned about what happens, and I do not want order, I want the things as I want them to be (I can say I would like to have an Empire, one day...) And about coffee, it is very addictive (I realized that after drinking a large number of cups), but if you use a pretty thing called "brain" that you have in your head, you'll know you can have a cardiac attack, and, most people in this time, when thinking about what I call "Self Mind Control" think about don't looking over a pretty woman, studying, and such menial tasks, but it is a real thing when you can still running with your leg bleeding over 0,5 Liters per minute, use your mind to stop thinking about something that hurts (I eat some skin from my fingers since I'm very young, and now it is difficult for me to feel pain in my hands (all other things are felt the same way) and, I don't bleed (some time ago I got unconsious at school, and when the medics tried to get some blood to analize my level of "Sugar in the blood" (duh, I can't remember the damned word), they have to make A CUT (not very little) to grab one or two drops) and that I've born with a very white and thin skin. Then, when you feel you can't keep running, why to stop?? I'm not very good in Sports, and I do not like running, but smoking pot to keep running, or using other drugs?? Accept how you are (it took me a while) and try to be as you'd like, not as others like you (if someone says "that shirt looks bad on you guy" he'll get a response of the "why should I care, why should I care (5:15!!!!!)" or some thing like "I won't hear such an idiot like you, pike off!"), well, unless your girlfriend tolds you she'll leave you... Well, that's different. So first try to do what YOU think is right, if you want ro follow the Laws, do it (I do not ever follow rules (only when I do not find them smart enough to be accomplished or followed) and some of those things (call be foolish or Chaotic, your opinion is also YOURS), but it is only because I do not like to be treated as a lower thing that does whatever they've tell him to do) but if you aant to go and live alone in an island, do it, of they tell you're mad, ask them why are they following a community that makes few sense and do not follows its own rules when the topic cames to money.
NOTE: this is a judging by MY OWN personal opinion, and it shouldn't be taken as an insult or as something that tries to be agressive or offensive.
I don't get it. Why would something so lethal for your health get legalized?
*facepalm*
Pot isn't lethal, its an urban myth. To OD you would need to take like 200 doses. Alcohol and COFFEE are both more addictive and damaging to your health than "the pot". Saying pot is dangerous for your body is like saying water is lethal.
Perfect. But just wait until your kids come home with a bag of marijuana. Maybe you'll react differently then. Or when your daughter's baby is suffering from mental and physical problems because your daughter was stupid enough to fill herself up with shit. Or when a friend of yours dies from an overdose. The examples you mentioned (chocolate, tea, etc) are still nowhere as dangerous and risky as real shit like softcore and hardcore drugs.
Right. Because everything related to Marijuana is inherently unhealthy...
Oh wait...If you want anymore evidence read Dr. Sanjay Gupta who believed the same as you for decades until scientifically investigating it and determining that pot might actually be *gasp* good for some people.
@Heindrich1988 - Opium is pretty heavy man. You're looking at unrefined heroin here. A highly addictive substance that has roots in the form of a highly powerful sedative. It's kind of like taking morphine - so to say that it won't have an overly intense effect with severe consequences cannot be true. Those that try to quit taking opiates will go through severe withdrawal symptoms. The pain for these people is often unbearable and your looking at a few weeks of fever, cold sweats, vomiting an diarrhoea. This is why quitting is unthinkable for so many addicts.
Marijuana on the other hand is a non-physically addictive drug that has practically no withdrawal symptoms. I know a load of people who have very good jobs and lead very productive lives and still light up on the weekends for a little bit of fun.
It really is impossible to compare the two. They are on a completely different level.
@Heindrich No, they are in fact not arbitrary, but based on physiological and psychological effects. Opium is a hard drug based on its effects on the body and mind, just as cannabis is a soft drug based on the same criteria.
Comments
They were not all people that "ruined themselves". In fact, only one person I know of suffered deleterious effects from marijuana consumption (beyond a heightened risk of later lung cancer), and it was a worsening of a preexisting mental condition (paranoia), and also required years of very heavy consumption (far more than most people) before their mental state had an obvious downturn from it.
Marijuana is not completely harmless, but you have wildly unrealistic fantasies about how dangerous it is. Smoking marijuana will almost certainly not "ruin" you. People do not tend to smoke marijuana and then run around doing wild stunts and crazy things (very occasionally it reacts badly with a preexisting mental condition, as above, but even so it's still far less dangerous than alcohol statistically). It tends to make people get giggly and eat a lot and find things fascinating that they'd never normally notice or care about. It's not a very addictive drug (and it isn't physically addictive), and really, you are tilting at a windmill that I would say you were silly for dwelling so much on were I not aware that your viewpoint is being shaped by decades of scaremongering propaganda.
I don't blame you for that, but scaremongering propaganda is all it is. Marijuana isn't harmless, yes. But it's also not very dangerous, to the best current scientific knowledge on the subject. It is a lot less harmful than many legal substances. Given that, there is no factual basis for it being illegal even if you think the government has a right to legislate what a human being can put in their own body. I already pointed this out, but you're wrong; decriminalisation and education actually lower drug addiction levels (as well as greatly lowering deaths from crime, adulterated drugs, needle sharing, etc.).
Plus, marijuana's not exactly an obvious drug to take for depression, as it's a depressant itself (although googling shows some scientific studies show it causes depression or worsens it, and others contradictorily seem to indicate it can help treat it, which at a random guess I would put down to the fact depression can have different causes).
And of course, yet again, I'll point out your scary scenario about turning to drugs instead of trying to fix your problems also applies just as well to alcohol, and indeed many, many people abuse alcohol as a crutch to deal with stress and depression in life. So once again: are you advocating alcohol being made illegal? And if not, how can you say your viewpoint is consistent?
As long as weed is illegal, people will find a way to buy it illegally (still the case in Maine it looks like), and as long as people are buying it illegally there will be gangs, violence, crime and murder.
It has been proven in the past and in countries such as Holland (friendliest and happiest country I have ever been to) that legalising such popular substances limits crime and removes a powerful source of wealth from potential crime syndicates.
Remember what alcohol prohibition brought the USA: Al Capone. It also ended up being one of the most expensive and pointless law operations in US history.
Here's a fun fact for you: The only reason it is illegal in most countries is because it is difficult to regulate. It is difficult to regulate because if weed is legalised people will start growing it in their shed with a few seeds and UV lamps. If it is difficult to regulate: Governments cannot apply a tax to it and if more people start recreationally smoking pot, less people will buy the heavily taxed substance known as alcohol. The hit to government resources will be substantial. (I don't necessarilly think it will work this way, but as far as I know: That's the big fear.)
I say all of this as an unbiased person who doesn't smoke marijuana.
Youth will be walking stoned through the streets as much as they're walking drunk through the streets now; very rarely unless it's party nights.
It's been said a dozen times, but yes, alcohol is way more dangerous and yet it's not destroying the children (alcohol use has actually gone down over the last few decades, though the Media of course want you to believe every teenager is drinking themselves to death every weekend). It's rate of addiction is lower than Baldur's Gate's and to overdose on it would literally mean you've been chain-smoking it for days without rest.
Your worries have no basis in reality. They really, really don't. I'm not saying this because I disagree, I'm saying this because you're simply wrong in your estimation of how dangerous marijuana is. The fact that you believe it can be injected or snorted shows you have no idea what you're talking about.
Calm down, don't get offended by people disagreeing with you and read up on the subject before passing judgement.
Addiction is a myth to a point and that point is dt shock and correct me if I am wrong but I think the only drugs that cause dt shock is Alcohol and heroin.
You should also keep in mind most drugs just emulate natural process of the body.
All that being said if they legalized good Hallucinogens I would be allot more chipper about it pot is like giving a computer a virus it takes some lsd, lsa, or dmt if you want to reboot the system. Though the world as we know it would fall apart if everyone could think clearly.
Next is the Magic Mirror Gate.
Atreyu must face his true self.
So what? That won't be too hard for him.
That's what everyone thinks.
But kind people find that they are cruel.
Brave men discover they are really cowards.
Confronted with their true selves...
...most men run away screaming.
and this is what they are referring when they talk about reefer madness or a bad trip and it is a very real thing, but the drugs are not to blame.
Besides, at least in Canada 73% of the money spent regarding drug policy is spent on enforcement. Only a handful of that is spent on treatment (around 14%). That was in 2004-2005, so since the conservatives have been in I'm guessing that would have shifted more towards enforcement than treatment but thats still just a guess. Even if Marijuana was horribly addicting (and I'm not saying it is) far more money is going towards enforcing against its sale and not towards treating those relative few that have had problems with it. There is also nothing to suggest that enforcement is more effective at preventing drug use than other methods. So from a cost-benefit standpoint I have to question why it is still illegal for individual users even if it was as harmful as you say. You are under the assumption that its a gateway drug. That notion has been thoroughly disproven. Sure some people who try marijuana go on to using harder drugs, but that doesn't mean the Marijuana caused them to do so.
It still blows my mind that I could actually light up sitting on my porch while waving politely to a passing beat cop and literally nothing would happen. In a few months, I'll be able to say the surreal phrase, "let's head down to the store and pick up some special brownies" with a straight face. Crazy.
Even though I'm actually not a big fan of the stuff myself, it's a relief to know that my friends and other people in the community aren't going to have their lives ruined anymore for getting caught with a substance less harmful than alcohol.
The thing is, the people that you're worried about abusing substances are abusing those substances anyway. With legalization, we can focus on getting them help rather than throwing them in prison and marginalizing them for the rest of their lives .
For the sake of intellectual honesty, you should probably come out and say that you believe alcohol and cigarettes should be illegal. Then at least you would be ideologically consistent and we could debate the merits of legalizing/criminalizing controlled recreational substances in general. Given that it is easier to overdose on both nicotine and alcohol then it is to overdose on cannabis (essentially impossible to OD on), wouldn't it make sense to start there?
But nobody wants to suggest that... because we've already tried making alcohol illegal and that failed miserably. Just like the criminalization of cannabis.
Finally, if it is possible to take marijuana in the form of a "shot," please tell me how because I have some friends who would be totally interested in trying it out.
I am not a smoker and no desire to be a smoker. However, I do agree also in the legalising reducing crime and providing taxes. really since they are around I would love for all of us to benefit from it as well and help with all this debt. however if it were legalised here then cigarette AND marijuana smokers will be standing there in public forcing me to take in the effect.
if we can make them legal for use in their own home then that is great. but i think it should still be illegal in public and punishable so that I don't need to be affected by their choices.
For now, I am going to reminisce about my good old university years.
An XXL pepperoni passion pizza, a reclining armchair, 'The Big Lebowski' on DVD and random conversations that went something like: "Mate, if there was a fire - Would it burn through the wall before the fire door? or the fire door before the wall?" - and then phoning your room mate who studies architecture to settle the dispute.The answer was inconclusive and inconsequential.
You all know what I'm talking about
Since legalization in Colorado, I have *never* been exposed to cannabis smoke outside of someone's private property.
Most of you are speaking as (probably) young Westerners, for whom 'pot' might be largely harmless, and public attitude to even harder drugs is relatively relaxed. Hell celebrities even publicly admit to taking drugs, part of the 'cool rock n' roll' lifestyle, which later provides some material for autobiographies where they explain how they 'grew up and got better'...
I am no expert, maybe cannabis isn't very harmful, and for sure I have no problems with its medicinal use... However, the way I see it, because it is seen as an illicit drug, never mind how dangerous it may or may not be, legalising it just sends out the wrong message about recreational drug use.
And for those of you who think recreational drug use should be legalised...
Let me remind you that for most of human history, a succession of Chinese empires accounted for between 1/4 to 1/3 of world GDP. Even in 1820, the Chinese Qing Empire's economic output was significantly greater than all of Western Europe combined, and still accounted for nearly 1/3 of global GDP, despite the Renaissance and Industrial Revolution in Europe. Less than 100 years later in 1913, The Qing Empire had collapsed into anarchy and Chinese GDP was now just 4.6% of global GDP.
What happened?
Opium.
Opium had been around for centuries, but never in large enough quantities to threaten social stability and welfare. However the British Empire conquered India in the late 18th Century, and decided to convert Indian farmland into poppy fields, to mass produce opium for the massive Chinese market (never mind that millions of Indians died of famine as a result). Of course the explosion in opium supply caused an explosion in opium use in China, where the authorities did not initially appreciate the scale and severity of the problem.
By the time Qing authorities realised the problem, it was too late. The Chinese economy had been crippled by a massive trade deficit caused by the opium trade, and around half of all Chinese men (much greater proportions in the coastal regions) were addicted to the drug, with crippling effects on society, the famous Civil Service, the Imperial Army etc. When the Qing Empire tried to end the British Opium trade and enforce prohibition laws, the British Empire launched the Opium Wars, which they won with ease, partly because the much of the Qing officer corps of the Imperial Army were also opium addicts, and the Qing Army and Navy barely functioned as a fighting force.
Chinese people today think of the Opium Wars as the beginning of our Century of Humiliation. Recreational drug use is rather central to that story and it is why China today has a zero-tolerance policy on drugs, and why I generally support it.
The truth is, recreational drug use IS harmful to individuals and societies.
'Recreational drugs' is any chemical stimulant intended to enhance whatever you are doing or feeling. Whether it is 'hard' or 'legal' are relatively arbitary distinctions based on cultural norms and local legislation.
For example alcohol and tobacco are as much of a recreational drug has cannabis or opium, but they are regarded as less harmful because they have so much social acceptance that they are viewed as part of the norm of social interactions. There are good cases to be made for prohibiting them as well, but most cultures and countries could never feasibly enforce a blanket alcohol/tobacco ban. (Though alcohol is largely banned in the Islamic world, something which seems draconian for non-Muslims).
Then, when you feel you can't keep running, why to stop?? I'm not very good in Sports, and I do not like running, but smoking pot to keep running, or using other drugs?? Accept how you are (it took me a while) and try to be as you'd like, not as others like you (if someone says "that shirt looks bad on you guy" he'll get a response of the "why should I care, why should I care (5:15!!!!!)" or some thing like "I won't hear such an idiot like you, pike off!"), well, unless your girlfriend tolds you she'll leave you... Well, that's different. So first try to do what YOU think is right, if you want ro follow the Laws, do it (I do not ever follow rules (only when I do not find them smart enough to be accomplished or followed) and some of those things (call be foolish or Chaotic, your opinion is also YOURS), but it is only because I do not like to be treated as a lower thing that does whatever they've tell him to do) but if you aant to go and live alone in an island, do it, of they tell you're mad, ask them why are they following a community that makes few sense and do not follows its own rules when the topic cames to money.
NOTE: this is a judging by MY OWN personal opinion, and it shouldn't be taken as an insult or as something that tries to be agressive or offensive.
Pot isn't lethal, its an urban myth. To OD you would need to take like 200 doses. Alcohol and COFFEE are both more addictive and damaging to your health than "the pot". Saying pot is dangerous for your body is like saying water is lethal. Right. Because everything related to Marijuana is inherently unhealthy...
http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/07/health/charlotte-child-medical-marijuana/
Oh wait...If you want anymore evidence read Dr. Sanjay Gupta who believed the same as you for decades until scientifically investigating it and determining that pot might actually be *gasp* good for some people.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/08/health/gupta-changed-mind-marijuana/
Marijuana on the other hand is a non-physically addictive drug that has practically no withdrawal symptoms. I know a load of people who have very good jobs and lead very productive lives and still light up on the weekends for a little bit of fun.
It really is impossible to compare the two. They are on a completely different level.
So much slippery slope and non sequitur lol. I'd reanalyze your argument, beginning with: I'm pretty sure if you used nukes you would take out the black market AND the city it was in, so probably not the best idea.