Baldur's Gate 3 - What do you want out of this game?
wariisop
Member Posts: 163
I will list a few things I really want out of this game.
1.) Isometric strategy maintained, not excuses like Dragon Age II
2.) Secrets...real secrets that may require some puzzle figuring, Legend of Grimrock has spoiled me.
3.) At least 20+ character kits and Race possibilities. Make each class unique to the point of even changing strategies. This may require a lot of reading of different D&D books.
4.) Use current rules for everything but random rolls. I really hated when they did the generic add point system, it takes away from the idea that your main character is special, and is the leader of heroes for a reason.
5.) Put real effort into counterattack and opportunity animation, keeping the player immersed by offering clicking options during combat.
6.) If there is a war, make it about war, I want armies. One thing I loved about TOB were the battles were huge, much like IWD 2, which had you in the middle of long, hard, chaotic battles. I love story, but a little action goes a long way to testing your party in a jam. Also, make rescuing people and saving lives change possible character options or availability.
7.) Secret characters, that may require choices to decide whether you get the character or not. I loved going on personal quest in Brigandine and finding a wandering swordsman/master wizard.
8.) Give Evil a chance, joining assassin guilds, thief guilds, evil Temples would be nice. Also, maybe the hardest thing of all, give Neutral characters a reason to exist, very few games have ever done this, but it would be great for Druids and Bards.
9.) Make a stronghold available at some point to house all the collected characters and weapons currently not in use. This could be a teleporting castle, given as a prize from your God/Clan/Organization.
10.) This one might not be liked by many, but it makes games fun to replay, time sensitive events. Missions that either expire with the changing days or hours. This would stop sleep spamming and really force hard choices on gamers, maybe even make a failed mission matter which will cause a change in the story. Again very few games have implemented this properly, but when done those games really make a difference.
11.) Make this game Skyrim huge, not in hours obviously because the BG series already does that, but in locations. There are millions of location in D&D, which gives this Dev a chance to bring wonder back to RPG's, I want to feel awe with some of the created areas, IWD did this well, it would be great to see BG do this also.
1.) Isometric strategy maintained, not excuses like Dragon Age II
2.) Secrets...real secrets that may require some puzzle figuring, Legend of Grimrock has spoiled me.
3.) At least 20+ character kits and Race possibilities. Make each class unique to the point of even changing strategies. This may require a lot of reading of different D&D books.
4.) Use current rules for everything but random rolls. I really hated when they did the generic add point system, it takes away from the idea that your main character is special, and is the leader of heroes for a reason.
5.) Put real effort into counterattack and opportunity animation, keeping the player immersed by offering clicking options during combat.
6.) If there is a war, make it about war, I want armies. One thing I loved about TOB were the battles were huge, much like IWD 2, which had you in the middle of long, hard, chaotic battles. I love story, but a little action goes a long way to testing your party in a jam. Also, make rescuing people and saving lives change possible character options or availability.
7.) Secret characters, that may require choices to decide whether you get the character or not. I loved going on personal quest in Brigandine and finding a wandering swordsman/master wizard.
8.) Give Evil a chance, joining assassin guilds, thief guilds, evil Temples would be nice. Also, maybe the hardest thing of all, give Neutral characters a reason to exist, very few games have ever done this, but it would be great for Druids and Bards.
9.) Make a stronghold available at some point to house all the collected characters and weapons currently not in use. This could be a teleporting castle, given as a prize from your God/Clan/Organization.
10.) This one might not be liked by many, but it makes games fun to replay, time sensitive events. Missions that either expire with the changing days or hours. This would stop sleep spamming and really force hard choices on gamers, maybe even make a failed mission matter which will cause a change in the story. Again very few games have implemented this properly, but when done those games really make a difference.
11.) Make this game Skyrim huge, not in hours obviously because the BG series already does that, but in locations. There are millions of location in D&D, which gives this Dev a chance to bring wonder back to RPG's, I want to feel awe with some of the created areas, IWD did this well, it would be great to see BG do this also.
5
Comments
Another thread.........
@Tanthalas merge?
You can continue posting in this one, but its getting merged tomorrow once I'm at my PC.
While similar, I am not claiming this is what needs to happen, I am asking as a board, what do people want from this game, even if they say they don't want a sequel, like the first poster in this thread. I can see many saying they don't want a sequel, but then what type of game would they want instead of BG 3. Do people want a spiritual successor instead. I know I WANT more isometric style games as I am sick of the 3D hack and slashes with bad facial animations.
Trent summered it pretty well:
TrentOster said: "My ideal party-based RPG'S is D&D, isometric and a 2D/3D mix. Great characters, voice acting on an epic story, set in an open world"
I go with his vision. :-)
I pretty much agree with all of it, except #5 which I feel would work poorly with the underlying turn-based combat system. I like being able to pause, get an overview and weigh different decisions, and I feel like "sitting ready" to counter-click an attack would detract from that.
I wouldn't really change anything about the combat system of the previous BG games.
Then take a look at IWD and avoid that as well. it is the rpg equivalent of a rail shooter.
Do not take a look at Temple of elemental evil because it is boring.
Whatever BG3 will be, it had better not go far from the source material. Just a new and improved infinty engine with similar feel as the old Baldurs gate.
For more info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baldur's_Gate_III:_The_Black_Hound
However, I would VERY much like to see a game with a story that predates the story of Bg1.
Perhaps play as Gorion himself, or one of his trusted friends, either a Harper or some other person, who worked with Gorion in trying put their collective noses in the business of Bhaal. A story that'd really flesh out the already existing games and really show us the brutalities and what must be the engrossing story of Bhaal's doings.
http://mwtactics.com/media/view/192
http://mwtactics.com/media/view/108
http://mwtactics.com/media/view/107
This is probably what BG 1&2 would have looked like if the source art wasn't lost...damn you Bioware!
4. Your main character is already special just by getting stats higher than 11. The average civilian is 11 and lower in every stat.
5. No. This isn't the Witcher or Soul Calibur. Giving moment to moment orders to your party members in order to meet the demands of a situation is fine. It's not D&D if you have to spam a key to parry enemy swords.
Everything else sounds good.
Isometric, keep the style!
Other than that, i first and foremost hope that BG1 and BG2 EE generate a good revenue to at least properly reward the courage of Overhaul to enhance the originals. Anything additional will come if and when it comes. Enhancing Icewind Dale for example has not been completely ruled out for example, and personally I could live with "just" enhanced versions of the great games we all know and fell in love with.
Heck, just the enhanced BG1 makes me happy!!
You begin near Baldur's Gate(possibly in Candlekeep) as you leave your home to become an adventurer. However, before long you find yourself being hunted by two groups- a mysterious cult, and a holy order (as a bonus to old BG fans, it could be the Radiant Heart, lead by one of Keldorn's descendents). You and the companions you find along the way continue your adventures while trying to discover why you're being hunted.
Eventually, you discover the truth- you are told the story of the Bhaalspawn saga, but with a new twist- after Charname rejected the power, it didn't just fade away. Bhaal had a backup plan- if he wasn't reborn through his children, his power would gather and find a mortal to use as a vessel. Eventually, that mortal would become powerful enough to reach godhood, and Bhaal's taint would attempt to take over, restoring Bhaal as the Lord of Murder. You are Bhaal's vessel, and the order is trying to kill you so Bhaal cannot return through you. It could be implied, if not stated outright, that Bhaal has attempted this before, and his previous vessels were successfully hunted down and killed by the order.
Later on, you discover the cult's plot- they are worshippers of Cyric, who wishes to claim all of Bhaal's power that he didn't get during the Time of Troubles. Cyric's high priest seeks to capture you and give your soul-and with it, Bhaal's divinity- to his god.
Eventually, the two groups discover each other's efforts, and, deciding their missions contradict each other's, end up going to war. It all comes to a head when the cult gets the upper hand and attacks Baldur's Gate to destroy the order's headquarters. In the end, you'll need to make a choice- come to the aid of the order, saving them and allowing you to convince them to accept an uneasy peace while you look for another way to stop Bhaal (good option), or take the opportunity to wipe out both of your enemies, leacing yourself free to do as you will (evil path). Either way, it ends as you defeat Cyric's high priest, and is left open for sequels with Cyric still wanting your power and Bhaal still trying to return.
Anyways, I'm sure the writers will be able to come up with far better, I just wanted to give an example to show that a true sequel to the Bhaalspawn saga is possible, even if it has a new protagonist and is set in the current day- 150 years later. I'd like to see Baldur's Gate 3 go a similar road, but I'm sure I'd love it even if it is something completely new instead.
1. The Story
This is one of the big advantages of BG, the story was good, and well carried through multiple games. If you take a list of some of the most popular RPG's, (Planescape, Mass Effect, NWN, FF games, etc) they almost universally have a good tale to tell. With a few twists and turns in the plot. This has historically been one of Bioware's strong-points, and since we have some of the original crew involved, I am not terribly worried about it. They have done fantastic work in the past, and I look forward to seeing more of it (adventure Y, BGIII, whatever) But still, it bears repeating: for a new game, make certain there is a good yarn at its core, or don't make it at all.
2. The Characters
This was another keystone of the BG series, and with good reason. And is one of the key reasons BGII is generally considered better than its predecessor. The characters came alive. Trying to strip away the nostalgia glasses, I would venture that a few of the characters were a little cliche, but still, a ton of fun and they interacted in ways you do not normally see. (i.e. fighting with each other, having a companion of their own, etc.) Of course, there are others games with excellent character development, (again, this is one of the old Bioware teams strongest suits: e.g. ME, PST) But there are a few things that I have missed about the old BG characters personally:
a. They were fun. This is fairly simple, but worth putting first. The characters were different, (ranging from the noble to the deluded or insane to brilliant, stupid, evil, innocent, etc.) No matter what type of group interested you, there was someone who fit the bill, and was reasonably well developed.
b. They addressed you. Most current games have the characters essentially standing around waiting for you to initiate dialogue with them. I understand why, (It gives the player total control over who he wants to talk to, and when.) I think this misses something however, a character seems a little more artificial if the only reason they speak to you on their own is to convey a location critical plot point. I like having someone speak up just to talk to me. This is especially true where romances are involved.
c. You could help them. I have always been a fan of characters who your actions can change. I enjoy trying to redeem those who have fallen or help heal the broken. BGII had many such characters (Viconia, Sarevok, Anomen, Aerie, even Imoen to a lesser degree [or with some mods, a greater degree]) It most current games Dragon Age, ME, etc. that isn't really an option. (or is a very limited option, but only if you romance the character) I like it when the protagonist can be more than the chief of killing things. (I know some will disagree on this point, but so be it.)
d. Romance. The romances of BGII were, and still are, unique. hence their own little subsection in what is rapidly turning into word vomit post. They are fondly remembered by many different people. And I will venture my own opinions as to why.
-Non formulaic. Obviously, there is a certain amount of formula and pattern in any romance, but some are more color-by-numbers than others. e.g. In Mass Effect, the romance essentially boils down to: I like you? Do you like me/still like me? Yay! we will sleep together in cut-scene right before the climax of this game. rinse and repeat 3x. (I know that is a little unfair, but I don't think it is entirely inaccurate either.) In BGII, the question was more complicated than "Do we like each other?" That was known (yes), and the characters moved past that to deal with personal issues of trust, loyalty, or just messed up morality.
-Slow. The BGII and its expansion was a long road, and the romances took advantage of that. Especially using the characters ability to initiate dialogue, already discussed, so the entirety of the romance didn't happen in a few segments between missions.
-Went past the intercourse. This bothers me in movies, games, etc. Romance is generally assumed to climax in the bedroom, and then they simply stop talking about it. (again ME did a notably poor job here, but DA, and most other games, are not much better) They had a nice long segment to move on, discuss the future, have a child, etc. This is a fairly unique trait, and a good thing.
3. The world.
It was big, it was long, it was full of secrets (as in actual secrets, not "Oh, you found one of the clues, now just follow your mini-map markers to the rest of the clues and the 'secret' treasure!") kind of secrets. I like that, I enjoyed playing through a third time a finding things I hadn't seen before. I remember finding the Twisted Rune completely by accident and getting DESTROYED. This is fun, a world that has dozens of little things you can miss, and doesn't feel the need to ensure that everything is scaled to your level and clearly marked on your map so you don't forget it. Make it so that 'Run away and come back later' is sometimes the only Viable option. (anyone else do the Firkraag mission first, and then try to take him?)
4. The combat.
Lets be honest, you will spend more time wandering around and fighting than doing anything else in this game, so that needs to be solid. And in BG, it generally was. The enemies were generally HARD, this is good. Every class had it uses, and every one was different. This became less so when the shift to D&D 3 came around. (Let's face it, with prestige classes, you could get a character to do pretty much everything with few disadvantages) But BG had it where the traps were lethal, and really did need to be disarmed. The warriors were massively better at melee than everyone else, The mages were murderous, and the thief back stabs equally brutal. Each class type really did play differently (in contrast to DA, where a rogue is essentially a fighter that tries to stand behind the target, and mages get a perfectly viable standard attack and armor) Also, this is harder to explain, but BG has always been more tactical, (In part because of this) I spent more time pausing, and trying to figure out how to stay alive, that in any other game. This is a good thing as well.
-subset, cool loot. So often, the loot in games essentially boils down to weapon/armor +X, and the goal is just to find the biggest X. (ME1 had nothing else) In BG, some of the items had actual bonus beyond just +X. (A sword that could cast spells, armor that a mage could wear, rings and cloaks that could do/cast who knows what.) In a game where you collect astronomical amounts of loot, make certain at least some of it is interesting.
5. MODS
This is the last entry here, but perhaps one of the most important. A major reason that people still care about the BG series today is that it could be modded. Mods bring life to a aging game and hope to those dislike something. The developers never have the time or money to do everything perfectly, and so there are always things that could/should be different. Mods allow that, those who feel the game is too easy, mod it to make it harder. Those who can't stand the silent characters in BG1? Add a banter pack (I am honestly a little surprised the developers said they would not add one to BGEE) Those who want more Jon Irenicus? download the Longer Road. (which I sincerely hope will be made compatible when the time comes. Again, I like redeeming characters.) For anything that is trying to learn from the BG franchise, mods are not optional.
I suppose that wraps up my immediate thoughts. This got a little longer than I expected. Anyway, Excelsior.
1) Infinity engine or similar.
2) Not a direct continuation of the Bhaalspawn saga but something with similar scope.
3) A mixture of BG1's wide open gameplay with BG2's dungeon design & chatty NPCs.
4) Multiple ways of completing some quests depending on class/alignment
Done. I'll buy it regardless, but there will be less whinging if the above boxes are ticked
2) Same level of attention to detail
3) 4E
Also I'd like the game to be as close to BG1/2 mechanically as possible. The thing I hate most about the NWN/ME/DA franchises is how much the games change game play and mechanic wise with each iteration.
If they continued with a new story, I would like to see a more diverse world. The first 2 to me were famous for there far reaching areas, but I'd like to see BG3 take it a step further. Maybe have BG1 and BG2's areas both accessible, so you would have to travel from Athlataka to Baldur's Gate.
I liked the idea they had for Baldur's Gate: The Black Hound. From what I remember it had a fairly solid story.