Complete newcomer
Finitevus
Member Posts: 7
Hello everyone
I have been a fan of rpg games for a very long time, but to my everlasting shame I have never had the chance nor time to dabble in Dungeons and Dragons. I picked up Baldurs Gate on steam very recently, since I heard so many good things about the game and that it was based off of DD.
I just started playing it yesterday, and as you may have guessed some things have me somewhat flummoxed. I should add I sort of jumped into this head first, without reading many(any) guides or FAQ's.
I made my hero a swashbuckler, and put a point into duel wielding since the classes pro's mentioned it, and it sounded like a fun way to play a glass canon thief. However, I cant actually find out how to make him have two daggers at once? I notice theres two slots for weapons on the inventory screen, but they appear to just be and on hand and offhand weapon...
In addition, I have no idea how experience works. After four hours, my partys druid received a single level up, and no one else has. Does landing the last blow mean you get more exp? My main character has been forced to stay far out of trouble, since he hits so low and only has 6 HP....
Any tips for leveling a swashbuckling thief?
I have been a fan of rpg games for a very long time, but to my everlasting shame I have never had the chance nor time to dabble in Dungeons and Dragons. I picked up Baldurs Gate on steam very recently, since I heard so many good things about the game and that it was based off of DD.
I just started playing it yesterday, and as you may have guessed some things have me somewhat flummoxed. I should add I sort of jumped into this head first, without reading many(any) guides or FAQ's.
I made my hero a swashbuckler, and put a point into duel wielding since the classes pro's mentioned it, and it sounded like a fun way to play a glass canon thief. However, I cant actually find out how to make him have two daggers at once? I notice theres two slots for weapons on the inventory screen, but they appear to just be and on hand and offhand weapon...
In addition, I have no idea how experience works. After four hours, my partys druid received a single level up, and no one else has. Does landing the last blow mean you get more exp? My main character has been forced to stay far out of trouble, since he hits so low and only has 6 HP....
Any tips for leveling a swashbuckling thief?
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In 2nd Edition D&D (which is the ruleset used in Baldur's Gate) thieves are quite different to their more modern incarnations. They're less glass-cannon damage dealers than out-of-combat utility characters. Swashbucklers are better in combat, but take quite a few levels to get going.
For starters, on character generation you probably want to aim for Maximum Dexterity (helps with Armour Class, thief skills and ranged weapons), 16 Constitution (for better HP. Fighters,Rangers & Paladins get benefits from above 16 but noone else does) and as much strength as you can muster (for better to-hit rolls and damage in melee).
Dual wielding is tricky for swashbucklers. It's completely useless unless you have at least 2 points in Two-weapon fighting style. Once you have 2 points in it, it becomes pretty good. The problem is that Swashbucklers gain proficiency points very slowly, and so you'll only likely be able to use it effectively at level 4 or 8. Until then you're probably better off either with a ranged weapon or using a buckler in your shield slot.
If you want an easier character to start with then I'd suggest a Fighter/Thief multiclass. The playstyle is very similar but you get 4 proficiency points at character creation allowing you to dual wield immediately. They're also a bit tougher than Swashbucklers, and will do better in melee at low levels.
*Edit* If you're still learning the rules (and there are many) then I'd suggest trying a Paladin or Ranger to start with. Both are good in melee and can equip heavy armour, which means they'll survive better. They also get a few special abilities to play around with. It may also be worth changing the difficulty form Core to Normal as well.
With regards to Levelling up, it'll start slowly. All XP is shared equally between party members, so small parties will level up faster. Once you get a "level up" icon on a character portrait then go to the Record screen (press R) and press the level up button.
Fast levelers: Thief, Bard
Medium Leveler: Cleric/Druid/Fighter
Slow Leveler: Mage
Anyway, the guides have the actual progression, if that interests you.
Hope this helps.
Its too bad about swashbucklers being slower at early levels, I hope I havent made my game too difficult... And not so good till LV.4-8?! That sounds crazy with how slow the leveling has been going... Am I perhaps doing something wrong? Ive basically been following the main quest and resting and then fighting random encounters around towns. I just now got the wild mage NPC...
Ive been using a crossbow right now since I couldnt get the daggers to work, and after reading a through a few advice for noobies threads ranged seems like the way to go in the early levels.
About thieves being mostly utility, is this their strongest point or only way to play them? If at all possible I would love to run a damage based thief, ignoring utility since I have the childhood friend NPC with me...
Thank you very much for the help, any and all advice is very appreciated!
First, if you made a human Swashbuckler, it will be a good idea to Dual-class to Mage in BG2 (I recomend to do so after lvl 16
Also, have you read the manual?? It is a very helpful thing, even if you know a lot about CRPGs.
Druids do not need much XP, you'll level up when you gather enough XP to do so (Duh!), you can get a lot in Beregost by completing some quests there.
Then, in BG1, the amount of XP is more than enough (no, really, its a lot) the needed to reach the Experience Cap that the game has (you can remove it, here http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/10212 you can find an easy way to do so, but removing it is maybe not worth the trouble).
I highly recommend spending your next Proficiency point in "Short bow" (you'll find out why
Then a lower AC (Armor Class) is better, and THAC0 (To Hit Armor Class 0) is better when lower too.
If your main PC is leading he'll get more XP than the others (a thing you won't notice unless you played the game 200 times checking the XP you have every half n' hour), just be sure you have enough Charisma to make a good impression to others (and your party!).
If you search, there are many VERY good guides in the internet, they tell you from which NPCs to carry to when you shall eat in your real life (actually, not so much but :P ).
Whenever I play as a Swashbuckler, I spend my Proficiencies in Single Weapon Style, but using Two-weapon Style is a good idea through, it is your own choice and it will go very well also.
xD
Its good to know thieves LV up fast, grinding is a big concern to me, but after looking again around these forums, it seems most training is done via quests, rather then random encounters? I was worried if I waited around too long npc's would leave, since they were starting to get rowdy.
Using a crossbow at present, but I put my proficiencies into dagger and two weapon style... Really Im just having difficulty keeping my main hero useful. I cant send him into combat without him Take grievous damage very quickly, and I havent actually noticed him doing any damage at all with his crossbow. Somewhat worried I created a Frankensteins abomination that will be squishy + under leveled for ever after.
If you grabbed Neera, be sure to memorize some Sleep (CHEESE, CHEESE for everybody YAY!!!
Just keep playing. Its a nice game you would like to play many times.
I will for sure, thanks for the advice and help! Going to go and try out some you guys suggestions, thanks again everyone!
^_^
http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/1992/basic-game-tips-for-new-players/p1
Good luck, @Finitevus. Baldur's Gate is not an easy or forgiving game for new players, but there's a reason so many people still play it 15 years after the original release
Lv. 1 = tutorial enemies
In BG -
Lv. 1 = Avoid angering housecats.
Since you start with only 2 weapon proficiency points, you will either get penalty from missing two-weapon fighing points or your weapon points.
I suggest you to play Stalker (Ranger Kit) if you like dual-wielding. You get free ++ to two-weapon fighting and start with another 4 points to spend.
Also you will start with x2 backstab multiplier instead of forever x1 of Swashbuckler.
Thieves level up much faster than mages in BG2 and BG1, with 3 million XP you become around lvl23 or 24 Thief (or Bard!).
However, as others have said, two-weapon fighting is not really a good option for swashbuckler in BG1. You need at least one melee weapon and at least one ranged weapon, using up both your starting specialty pips. You probably then want to put your third pip into the melee weapon again to make it much more useful. Since you will only get four pips in total, and a single pip in two-weapons is useless (as others have said), you are probably better off putting the fourth pip into your ranged weapon.
My recommendation is saving the two-weapon fighting for BG2, when you are already specialized in a melee weapon and your hit rating will be much higher, making it feasible even at one pip in two weapons to start using duals.
:S
Will it be feasible at any level to duel wield daggers, or will I always be bursted down instantly?
If you want to be a butcher of the battlefield I would recommend going fighter/thief, you can become one of the greatest archers in the game and able to fight toe-to-toe with whatever melee weapon you prefer against veteran warriors. But if you play a pure thief you can still be a pest to your enemies, if you succeed with your ability ''Hide in Shadows'' (you'll be stealthed then) and you go behind an enemy with a melee weapon equipped, you can backstab them for critical damage, build yourself up with decent weapons and stats and you'll find yourself oneshotting your enemies with a backstab, for the rest of the fight I'd advise to get away from your enemies and continue your assault with melee weapons, or you can go further away out of your enemies range and try to hide in shadows again and do another backstab. Though seeing as you play a swashbuckler you lose the backstab perk, but swashbucklers make very decent fighters at higher levels and thief skills like find traps and open locks is greatly useful.
I started out this game as a pure fighter, problably the easiest class in the game and you can build yourself up to be immensely powerful and then you can learn about all the other classes with NPCs you pick up to join your party. I've found this guide (http://www.gamefaqs.com/pc/258273-baldurs-gate-ii-shadows-of-amn/faqs/8566) to be very useful in explaining the basics of 2nd edition AD&D In Baldur's Gate.
And yes, some NPCs that join your party has a quest that you must fulfill if you wish to keep them, and if you're spending days and weeks not doing the quests they will eventually leave.
I hope you luck and if you ever have more questions just post them!
@Finitevus: Crossbow is a useful proficiency in the BG series. There is one great Crossbow in BG1 that you can use, the Light Crossbow of Speed (Thunderhammer Smithy, Beregost). This weapon deals excellent damage, especially if you use bolts of Lightning (available many places, including High Hedge). In BG2, there is an excellent Crossbow early in the game: the Firetooth +4 (Watcher's Keep). This Crossbow is highly effective at penetrating enemy armor as it is considered a +4 weapon and generates its own ammunition. More importantly, it does elemental damage which can: 1) interrupt spells on mages protected by Stoneskin; 2) kill disabled trolls.
If you're looking to deal more damage in spite of lacking backstab, you can use the Set Snares ability. This takes a few levels to develop but is devastating. However, if you are the only thief in the party, you may want to avoid this skill and develop Open Locks/Find Traps instead. Still, Set Snares is great for boss encounters, power leveling, and luring enemies.
A strength of 17 or 18 will give you another +1 to your hit rating. Dexterity of 17 or 18 gives a +2 to your hit rating with ranged weapons only, which is probably why you are hitting more often with your crossbow.
Now, swashbuckler gets an extra +1 bonus to hit rating at level 5 and 10, with both ranged and melee. If you put two pips into a single weapon (like dagger), you get an extra +1 bonus with that specific weapon. So let's say you are a level 10 swashbuckler specialized in dagger with a +2 dagger and drink a potion of strength to get to 18. You will now have 16 base THACO -1 (for str 18) -2 (for +2 weapon) -2 (for swashbuckler bonuses) -1 (for dagger specialization) . That puts you at 10 THACO, very respectable for a non-fighter, and you will hit armored foes about half the time, non-armored foes almost all the time.
So how does two weapon fighting fit into this? If you wield two weapons with NO pips in two weapon style, you lost 4 hit rating on your main hand and 8 hit rating on the offhand. That puts you at THACO 14/18 for level 10, you're basically missing everything. Putting one pip in two weapon style reduces the penalty to lose 2 main hand lose 6 offhand, or 12/16. Still not great. With the second pip, you now have NO PENALTY for main hand and only 4 penalty for offhand, or 10/14. At this point you are really losing nothing by dual wielding because your main hand hits like normal and you will land the offhand once in a while with no downside. The third and final pip in two weapon fighting keeps the main hand penalty to 0 and reduces offhand again so it's just lose 2 hit rating.
In BG1, a thief only gets a total of four pips to spend. If you put two into dagger and two into two weapon fighting, you will be a solid two weapon fighter with daggers only by the end of the game. However, this means that you will be ineffective with ranged weapons. Especially in the early parts of BG1, ranged weapons are almost essential to keep you alive.
The reason I suggest holding off on two weapon fighting until BG2 is because you'll have further hit rating bonuses. You'll gain one hit rating every odd level and another swashbuckler bonus every five levels. So by level 15 you'll have an additional +4 hit rating, and probably a +3 weapon. This makes the penalties for two weapon fighting much less severe.
I hope this all made sense!
I did indeed find a group of skeletons that seem to respawn if i slept near the original group, and dropped about 20-40 throwing daggers each time. One stack got me through the gnoll fortress very handily! Had to switch back to the crossbow when I ran out of them, but I will be sure to pick up some more next chance I get.
@Time4Tiddy
Thanks so much for the great breakdown! I understand most of what you said, but the bit where you said only 4 pips ever worries me a lot. If there was no level cap and I could get 5 or so eventually, I wouldnt worry putting a pip into ranged off the bat, but if I only get 4 ever shouldn't I save them for the proficiencies Im really interested in? I dont want to get the last boss and just barely be able to use a dagger, and be cursing that single pip put into a crutch weapon I only needed for the first third or so of the game...
:S
So when you're creating a character plan what you want to do with it, do you want to dual-wield, do you want to fight ranged, and what kind of weapons do you want to use through-out the game. BG2 is alot more forgiving since your level cap is at 40 and you get alot of spare proficiency points. If you've really messed up but don't want to start a new character, you can download ''EE Keeper'', a program that will let you configure your save file, you can re-roll your proficienies and stats there however you like and then just return to your game being totally respecced.
as others have said I would have recommended fighter/thief. I am currently playing it and it is really effective, though a little bit slower leveling. I think it still makes a better swashy than a swashy will ever be, especially due to the apr (attacks per round) level bonuses and apr bonus for 2 pips.
if there is anything you want to change from previously, you can also get a save editor called EEkeeper. If you want to respect to bows for the early game then use later pips to go dual wielding that is fine. my current game I leveled Imoen a level too far so I put her back to dual her to mage then gave her back the experience she had.
btw don't worry about the frustrations, as I think we have all been through this. Everybody is a noob at one point or another. I remember many deaths in my first time going through the first dungeons, but now I make it through without a rest. I kind of wish I could be having your experience. Those were good times
When I play completetionist runs and do *all the quests* I still avoid them, because they're that bad.
You won't have four pips forever, just four pips at the end of BG1. You get another pip every four levels, so you'll get another at level 12, 16, 20, etc. I am currently working on a swashbuckler getting ready for BG2 release, and I have two pips in short swords and two pips in shortbow. I will take two weapon style at 12, 16, and 20, and then probably start working another type of melee weapon into the mix.
My swashbuckler is elven, so I get an extra +1 to THACO when wielding swords or bows.
I would encourage you to keep playing with the character you've gotten this far with. You have learned a lot so far, and will learn more. The only way to truly "waste" a specialization pip on a swashbuckler is to put it into sword/shield style - every single weapon you can choose can be effective, and even two-handed weapon style can have its place in a strength focused build.
My last recommendation to you was mentioned by someone earlier - the Dagger of Venom. This is one of the best weapons in BG for a melee thief and you can get it as soon as you have enough money, from the armory in Beregost.
On another note, does anyone have any good recommendations for a tank like evil party member? Right now I have my protagonist swashbuckler, Dorn, Edwin and Neera. Im flittering between the neutral/good couple you get in the friendly arm inn and the sunshine monk that just tried to join me, but both options are equally unappealing.
Also, uh, where do npc's go when you remove them from the party and change zones? Are they gone forever or do they return to their original meeting spot...?
As far as the best evil tank - you will want to get Kaigan. He is an evil dwarf fighter you can find in Beregost in a shop just north of Feldepost's Inn. He has a 20 Con, which means he not only has more hit points than any other character in the game, but also regenerates health, slowly. He is pretty much the go-to tank for any evil party, and you can get him now.
Kagain is a great tank, meaning he will never die, you've already played through Nashkel mines so you can't get montaron but he is otherwise pretty suitable for tanking, and if you want a good tank you can try Yeslick, he does things pretty decent.