Dual-classed thieves have no backstab multiplier when language is not set to English

Blash

Just got back thieves skills after dualing Imoen and here's what happened:
- after luck spell she lost her proficiency points (known bug, and I'm having some trouble with EEKeeper to restore them..)
- she completely lost backstabbing: in the info sheet what I read is "backstabbing multiplier: x0"

I'm quite disappointed, I don't like messing with save files in a no-reload game.

Awong124

Does x0 mean that her backstabs do 0 damage? That would be worse than a normal attack, lol.

Blash

This is a game breaking issue.. no staff member posting?

Kouga

@Awong124 I suppose so. 3 damage multiplied by 0 is 0 afterall. Because you'll have 0 times 3.

Blash

Anybody out there?

Mathsorcerer

What I suspect is that the Luck spell bug with which you have been afflicted erased all her affects, which is where proficiency slots are stored in this game engine. Her backstab multiplier, although it is supposed to be externally handled via a .2da file, may be handled here, as well. It appears that you dual-classed her at thief 7 over to mage and now she is mage 8, yes? It is a relatively to fix this in Near Infinity by reassigning the affects. If you know how to do so then that will solve the problem; if not, then I don't mind doing it for you.

Blash

I thank you very much for your help but unfortunately, as I suspected, the problem is not related to the "luck spell bug".

This is how you verify it:
- Create a thief
- Set 40.000 exp via EEKeeper (level 7)
- Dual to mage
- Notice that while you still can read lockpicking, trap disarming etc. there is no trace of backstabbing in the character info page, and that is quite weird
- Set 90.000 exp via EEKeeper (level 8)
- Press on the level-up button and regain your abilities as a thief
- Notice that what's written is "backstab multiplier: x0" (I tried and backstabbing does NOT work, damage is normal, though not zero)

I hope a fix will be released soon.

Charan

I have the same problem but no luck spell was needed. My imoen can't disarm traps with 150% lockpicking. This really sucks as i was hoping for durlag's tower

TheGraveDigger

Charan said:

I have the same problem but no luck spell was needed. My imoen can't disarm traps with 150% lockpicking. This really sucks as i was hoping for durlag's tower

You use the Find Traps skill to disarm traps.

Mathsorcerer

Blash said:

This is how you verify it:
- Create a thief
- Set 40.000 exp via EEKeeper (level 7)
- Dual to mage
- Notice that while you still can read lockpicking, trap disarming etc. there is no trace of backstabbing in the character info page, and that is quite weird
- Set 90.000 exp via EEKeeper (level 8)
- Press on the level-up button and regain your abilities as a thief
- Notice that what's written is "backstab multiplier: x0" (I tried and backstabbing does NOT work, damage is normal, though not zero)

Unfortunately, I just duplicated the steps you listed--created a thief, jumped to level 7, dual-classed to mage, verified that thief abilities are listed but backstab is not, jumped to level 8, regained thief abilities, then checked the character record. My test thief -> mage has a backstab multiplier of x3.

I could not duplicate the error you are experiencing.

TheGraveDigger

Maybe EEKeeper is the problem? I just tested a dual thief/mage using the console commands to add experience and she turned out fine.

Blash

I noticed this issue before even downloading EEKeeper.. that's strange.. @Mathsorcerer, could you check the save file I provided in the first post with EEKeeper if backstabbing has actually disappeared from the character affects?

Mathsorcerer

Is it just me or do I not see a save game attached to your post?

Blash

The first post in this thread, there's a rar file with a save file inside

Mathsorcerer

Weird. I couldn't see it last night...and I didn't even have any scotch.

Yes--all of Imoen's affects have disappeared, which means that she has no weapon proficiencies *but* when I load that saved game her backstab multiplier is listed as x3.

Blash

Mathsorcerer said:

Weird. I couldn't see it last night...and I didn't even have any scotch.

Yes--all of Imoen's affects have disappeared, which means that she has no weapon proficiencies *but* when I load that saved game her backstab multiplier is listed as x3.

I'm not sure if I got what you said: backstabbing has disappeared but you read it anyway in the character page?

Blash

Ok, I made some other tests:
- I created a new character, thief of course
- Set 40 000 exp, dualed to mage, set 90 000 exp (using ONLY the console, NOT EEKeeper)
- Verified that "0" can be read as backstabbing multiplier (you can find a screenshot in the rar file.. it's in Italian but should be clear enough)
- Verified through EEKeeper that the "affects" table of the character is completely empty

So I can say:
- Luck spell was not involved at all
- EEKeeper was not involved at all (the save file was not modified)

I'm more and more surprised and annoyed by the fact that no staff member is showing a minimum of interest in this.

Mathsorcerer

This is insane. Your screenshot clearly shows a backstab multiplier of x0 but when I load the save game the character has both weapon proficiencies and a backstab multiplier of x3. You don't have any mods installed, do you? (you probably answered that already) Here is a screenshot of what I saw upon loading the game:

Blash

No mods installed, ever. Sorry if I didn't say it before :-)
If you open that savegame with EEKeeper, the character has backstabbing in the assets?

In the meanwhile, thanks for your help again ;-)

Mathsorcerer

The proficiencies are there but there is nothing under the "affects" tab. If you have Near Infinity can you use it to open BGEE and look for backstab.2da? It is probably there since you have no mods but it can't hurt to look. At this point, I would flag Dee to increase the likelihood that someone in an official capacity can begin looking at it. I don't have an answer for this.

Blash

I don't have Near Infinity nor do I know how to use it but I made further tests:

- Deleted baldur.ini
- Used the "repair installation" function
- Left English as language
- Created another character and advanced using the usual procedure

Backstab multiplier is now listed as "x3"

- Changed language to Italian and restarted game

Backstab multiplier is now listed as "x0"

- Changed language to French and restarted game

Backstab multiplier still listed as "x0"

- Changed language to English and restarted game

Backstab multiplier is now listed as "x3"


Something is fuc.. ehm, is terribly wrong.

Being the affects tab void actually means that the character has no backstabbing?
I tried starting the game with the pre-generated thief, not touching him at all, and EEKeeper still shows an empty "affects" tab. It should be that way?
I think this is the point, as this whole matter might be explained in something language-related.

@Dee, @Aedan, are you there?

Dee

Change the language to French, and then start a game with the Halen pregenerated character in the list. Then look at your record screen and see if the multiplier is listed as x2 as it should be, or if it's listed as x0.

Near as I can tell from reading this thread, the issue has to do with how the multiplier is being displayed; if you actually perform a backstab you should still get the correct multiplier.

(In the future, if you want to get the attention of one of the members of the dev team, tagging them like you did in your last post is much more effective; there are a lot of threads to sift through on these boards, and we can't always look at every thread that gets posted.)

Blash

I don't like the word "should" that much.. how can I discover if a backstab is being performed, instead of a normal attack?
Anyway, starting the game in French I read "x2".
If I start with a custom character I read "x2" and of course "x0" after having the character leveled-up.

Dee

To backstab someone, activate stealth mode, stand behind the target, and attack them. If backstab is working correctly, the combat log should say "Backstab-Triple Damage" or something like that.

Blash

I know how to backstab..

So, I did further testing, here are the results:
- Game started in English: backstab is correctly displayed and successful backstab is correctly reported in the game log. Resulting damage is consistent (screenshot 1.bmp)
- Game started in Italian: backstab is displayed as "x0" (screenshot 2.bmp), backstab is *NOT* reported in the game log. Resulting damage is consistent with a non-backstab hit: 13 damages instead of 21 (screenshot 3.bmp).

@Dee (I know how to get proper attention, I simply thought that the bugs section had a special care), I think this final proof shows that this matter deserves a particular attention from the game staff. I could not call it but a game-breaking bug. I really don't know what further test could I bring to your attention; indeed, this last one is quite clear, in my opinion. You can repeat it using French instead of Italian in the second try.

I'm waiting for this bug to be solved to start my playthrough.

Blash

Ok, I repeated the test with French language set.
You can see two screenshots, one clearly showing that there was no backstab.
The "8 damages" you can read I think are enough to show that backstab does not work.
The character was the same, strength was the same, proficiency was the same, weapon was the same.

Dee

Yep, that's clear enough. We'll take a look.

Blash

Man, that's what I wanted to read :-)

Dee

Okay, so I just tested it for myself with language set to Italian:

1. Create a new character, Thief. Ctrl-8 to give all 18 for ability scores
2. C: SetCurrentXP("25000") and level up character (should give the character x3 backstab)
3. Statistics pane shows x3 backstab as it ought to
4. Backstabbing tutor shows x3 backstab damage
5. Dual-class to fighter
6. C: SetCurrentXP("64000") and level up the character to regain thief abilities
7. Statistics pane shows x0 backstab

Notably, this only affects dual-classed characters. Before dual-classing the multiplier was working fine.

Blash

Yes, that's why I initially discovered this problem with Imoen.. before dual-classing, all was fine.
I suppose that this thread's title needs another little adjustment :-P

Blash

Any news on the matter?


P.S.: Edited title from "Thieves.." to "Dual-classed thieves..".