The super backline Archer / Cleric
Mungri
Member Posts: 1,645
This isnt a very popular build, and I dont know why.
Some people dont know that Ranger / Cleric is a valid multi and dual class, and that the Ranger kits can dual class to clerics too.
One great thing about dualing from a ranger to a cleric is that you get all the druid spells added to your spell book, as well as 1.5 attacks per round, and can place 2 proficiency points in your cleric weapon skills.
But what if you want to make a backline slinger Cleric? The Archer kit gains +1 to hit and damage every 3 levels with ANY missile weapon, slings included so +3 to hit and damage if you dual at level 9, plus you get 2 uses of called shot which would apply -1 Thaco and -1 saving throws vs spells to your targets.
And you still gain all the druid spells in your spellbook, with a single negative of only being able to wear leather armour, and though you can still only put 2 points into slings, your cleric is still going to be a much better backline slinger than any other.
And the missile bonuses from the 9 archer levels will also apply to Energy Blades too.
Some people dont know that Ranger / Cleric is a valid multi and dual class, and that the Ranger kits can dual class to clerics too.
One great thing about dualing from a ranger to a cleric is that you get all the druid spells added to your spell book, as well as 1.5 attacks per round, and can place 2 proficiency points in your cleric weapon skills.
But what if you want to make a backline slinger Cleric? The Archer kit gains +1 to hit and damage every 3 levels with ANY missile weapon, slings included so +3 to hit and damage if you dual at level 9, plus you get 2 uses of called shot which would apply -1 Thaco and -1 saving throws vs spells to your targets.
And you still gain all the druid spells in your spellbook, with a single negative of only being able to wear leather armour, and though you can still only put 2 points into slings, your cleric is still going to be a much better backline slinger than any other.
And the missile bonuses from the 9 archer levels will also apply to Energy Blades too.
1
Comments
Plain Ranger / Cleric is still gonna be better.
http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/24413/slings-get-bonuses-from-dex-and-str#latest
I'm not believing that this build would be weak, it seems powerful to me. The only class that can get grandmastery in slings anyway is a Fighter, and its a bad choice to be putting 5 points into on any fighter.
A GM fighter would do better with a sling than an archer because a level 9 archer doesn't have all that many bonuses. GM gives just as much damage as the archer bonus as well as an extra 1/2 attack. Heck an unkitted ranger would only do a bit less sling damage than the archer but be able to kick ass in melee and wear heavy armor as well while having the same casting abilities. Since slings get the strength bonus now the archer's +3 is even less important when 25 strength gives +14 and you really want to focus on hitting as many times as possible.
I think it's a cool idea, and I'm sure you will do pretty well as an Archer/Cleric, but I think a more melee focused Ranger/Cleric will deal more damage in the long run.
First consider a base level 9 elf ranger with longbow grandmastery and 19 dex (the strongest Archer build):
1 Thaco, 9-14 damage, 3.5 attacks per round.
Next is the 9 Fighter with sling grandmastery:
6 Thaco, 9-12 damage, 2.5 attacks per round.
Finally a 9 Archer with Sling specialization:
4 Thaco, 10-13 damage, 2 attacks per round.
So you just lose 0.5 attacks per round. You gain +2 Thaco, +1 damage roll, Called Shot and Druid Spells. I think the advantages far outweigh losing half an attack per round.
@GoodSteve I'm a big fan of Monty! At the start of the game his sling specialization + halfling bonus + strength bonus makes him surprisingly deadly at range.
Druid spells: like I said, I was just comparing the sling abilities, not the spellcasting abilities. The fighter was just to illustrate the value of grand mastery, not recommend a sling-using fighter>cleric as a class (I mean, come on).
The level 9 elf bow user illustrates just how much better bows are than slings. 1.5 APR over the sling archer is huge.
You're focusing too heavily on the sling side of the build, the intention for this is a cleric build with the added advatages of druid spells and more powerful slings over a vanila cleric.
Of course it's better than a regular cleric because it's a ranger/cleric. But really, what you should be comparing is what the archer kit nets you compared to the vanilla ranger (or some other kit like stalker). You get +3/+3/called shot with your sling, which while enough to make your previously crappy slinging abilities less crappy is not going to make you into a one-man siege weapon.
On the other hand, you're giving up melee specialization and metal armor, and resigning an amazing tank to a back-line role. Your regular ranger dual can plink away with rocks nearly as "well" as the archer (and a multiclassed R/C can probably do it better), but when it comes time to man up and stop being cute with the sling and deal some real damage he's going to come up short. Yes, being in the back means you take less damage but if your ranger/cleric is too delicate a flower to be standing in the front then who the heck do you have up there?
Ranger/Cleric multi is still infinitely times better. All the divine and druid spells in the game are available to you. You start with 2 points in Two Weapon fighting. You have access to some of the best weapons in the game (Flail of Ages, Crom Faeyr, Defender of Easthaven). You can wear the heaviest armors in the game; you get warrior-based thac0; access to Warrior and Cleric HLA's... I mean you have to basically have the crappiest rolls to make this class suck.
Granted Ranger/Cleric multi-class is practically a cheat, so if you don't want to use it on that principle, I won't condemn you for it... but it's so much more fun than Archer/Cleric.
And I agree with the general sentiment here: Archer->Cleric does not offer anything special to make it better than a regular Ranger/Cleric combination. So far your only argument seems to be "I want to use slings" - that's cool and all, but personal preference is just that, and not an argument. If you have an actual argument as to why an A->C would be better, I'd love to hear it.
Ranger / Clerics that try to melee cant cast a single spell because they are interrupt fodder.
I have no idea how people are even managing to stand around for 9 seconds in the middle of a battle to recast iron skin, it doesn't work if you actually try it.
This combination is working many times better when the Cleric can be kept away from enemies to actually cast its spells.
Recasting iron skin is not necessary if the enemy is dead by then.
And problems recasting spells in the middle of battle? Pretty sure R/Cs have several spells that can draw heat off of them (sanctuary, anyone?).
Unholy Smites, Insect Plagues, erm, actual HEALING spells.
The most important cleric spells are cast outside of combat, before combat or right at the start so just cast before you wade in. If you need to dispel then back off and dispel.
The whole point is that the Ranger/Cleric has the tools to *fight* everything on equal ground. Mages? Dispel and Insect plague spells. Groups of enemies? Smite AoEs. Undead? Turn their asses. Golems, or any other enemy? Buff yourself up with various cleric spells, cast Iron Skin, and *smash* them with dual-wielding fury.
Wield the Flail of Ages and Defender of Easthaven in both hands, using those free two points you have on Two Weapon fighting, and you're one of the tankiest tanks in the game. Several blunt weapons you can use can outright *DESTROY* different types of enemies. You eat undead for breakfeast; mages can't do crap against you unless they spend tons of time trying to disable you, and by then they have spells cast on them to disrupt them.
And you want to say that using Slings exclusively. *EXCLUSIVELY* is better than that. If you want to play that way, sure you can. Is it more effective? Hell no. Not in the slightest bit.
As for the Iron Skins - you rarely "tank" in this game, and if you do it's usually with a mage. IS's main use is to prevent incidental damage during times of low control, not as a main "tanking" tool. The majority of dangerous incoming damage is magical in any case.
The reason why I decided against slings was the ammo. In the BG2:EE you can find for example Arrows of Detonation (+6d6 fire) or Disspelling. That is more useful than some base damage, especially if you can fire 3 in one round.