Rate BG2:EE out of 10

ajwz

Based off your impressions so far.
I'm limited to 10 poll options so there is no 0 option, but if you vote for 1, I think we will get the point.

Mungri

7 atm due to too many new bugs that weren't even in the original game.

ajwz

If you are interested, this is what the results for BG:EE looked like when it was released

EnterHaerDalis

6 because of the game breaking framerate issues. Sadly the posted system requirements do not allow you to play the game smoothly.

ChildofBhaal599

too many bugs but it is still a 10 out of 10 game with some enhancements so it would be higher if I wasn't frustrated by them

AdventSign

If the bugs were fixed, it would be a 9. I don't believe any game deserves a 10 because it is impossible to define what makes a "perfect" game. It is what I hoped for and what I expected...the UI is a bit different though but that is just personal tastes.

Flashburn

At the time, BG1EE was 8/10 and you can see that's what I voted for. Now that all of its bugs are fixed its definitely 10/10. I'm thinking the same thing will happen with BG2EE. It's definitely an improvement over the original but there are bugs that have been introduced that need re-fixing.

elminster

I've really only experienced a handful of bugs but others have apparently gotten much worse. So until they are resolved I can't really give it a 9/10.

Akihiko

I give it an 8, because I truly felt that bg2 needed a thief that every party could use, not one that would be a stretch for any non-evil character to justify taking. But please, this is just my opinion, and I've no wish to turn this thread into a Hexxat argument. Lord knows there are enough of those threads around.

Aron740

I do not want to rate the game yet since I am not done with my playthrough. But so far if I look away from the amazing new hawt companion and the new content, it's actually looking very grim indeed because of the over six crashes I had in the past two hours.

Still I want to remind that content wise this is an amazing game(and I love the new companion!).

Schneidend

Haven't encountered any bugs so far, Hexxat is cool and really useful, and between her and Dorn I have a full Evil party now!

Although, I probably should have gone with a nine since Hexxat's female-exclusive romance keeps the game just shy of perfect.

ChildofBhaal599

Schneidend said:

Haven't encountered any bugs so far, Hexxat is cool and really useful, and between her and Dorn I have a full Evil party now!

Although, I probably should have gone with a nine since Hexxat's female-exclusive romance keeps the game just shy of perfect.

lol that could sure use a spoiler tag as I was thinking about it and now I don't even get to be disappointed in game this kind of makes me think of that one thread where the OP was hoping Hexxat would be turnable from evil to romance her, so I guess he got shot down in another way

Mungri

Akihiko said:

I give it an 8, because I truly felt that bg2 needed a thief that every party could use, not one that would be a stretch for any non-evil character to justify taking. But please, this is just my opinion, and I've no wish to turn this thread into a Hexxat argument. Lord knows there are enough of those threads around.

Everyone can use Jan, but that's pretty much the only option you previously had. Imoen is still capable as a good thief once you get her back, and her locks / traps points were buffed. I don't get why they left Nalia unchanged though.

GoodSteve

I like the new content but it's still got a few bugs keeping it from being truly great. All in all it is a improvement over the original BG2 but with the current state I wouldn't give it higher than an 8.

Akihiko

@Mungri I understand that, but all I really want is a pure thief. (Plus, Jan kinda annoys the crap outta me) Honestly, even back in the day when I played original BG2 I was quite unhappy that they decided to make Imoen into a dual-class mage, since I used her as a thief throughout BG1. Also, my party already consists of Nalia, Aerie, Neera, and my hero is a blade. I think my party would be a biiiiit too fragile if I added Immy to that.

Mungri

Huh? Immy and Jan are both far stronger than a pure thief.

Pure thiefs are the weakest class in the game.

Akihiko

Thieves get armor.

Mungri

Mages get spirit armour, stoneskin, mirror image and protection from magical weapons which makes them near invincible in combat.

I'm pretty sure that Spirit armour is also stronger than any armour that a thief can wear, but unfortunately its a bit bugged atm and blocks saving the game for its entire duration if you fail a save against it.

Schneidend

Mungri said:

Huh? Immy and Jan are both far stronger than a pure thief.

Pure thiefs are the weakest class in the game.

Pure Thieves level up faster and will thus have more skill points and be better at archery and backstabbing.

Mungri

Spells > Archery (especially melfs meteors and energy blades)
Mislead and all the other invisibility spells make backstabbing far easier.

So no, pure thieves are actually the 'weakest' class in the game, it makes no sense to think that a thief is stronger than a thief / mage.

TheElf

7 so far, will go up after some bug zapping. Haven't personally experienced anything major, just a glitchy late night vamp encounter and I'm pretty sure Dorn resurrected himself.. I've seen a decent amount of the new content, and so far I've enjoyed it all.

Schneidend

A mage/thief can turn invisible, sure, but whether or not he'll actually hit anything with the backstab is still up in the air until you start getting to higher levels. Hexxat pretty much can't miss unless you Crit Miss. She also does waaaaay more damage.

Sure, mage/thieves are strong, thanks in large part to arcanists being woefully overpowered in 2E, but they're not as good at actually being Thieves as single-class Thieves.

Mungri

I have Hexxat at level 13 (800,000 exp) vs my main chararacter which is a 10 swashhuckler / 11 mage (160k + 375k).

And everyone of hexxats backstabs miss while my swashmage is cleaving away in the front line, plus she dies in just one or two hits compared to a thief / mage being a capable front line tank.

Thieves get terrible Thaco, they only reach a max base of 10 at the same time a mage reaches 13, and that is easily overcome with tensers transformation.

And to top it off, an unkitted pure thief is worse than a bounty hunter, assassin or shadowdancer.

GoodSteve

Schneidend said:

A mage/thief can turn invisible, sure, but whether or not he'll actually hit anything with the backstab is still up in the air until you start getting to higher levels. Hexxat pretty much can't miss unless you Crit Miss. She also does waaaaay more damage.

Sure, mage/thieves are strong, thanks in large part to arcanists being woefully overpowered in 2E, but they're not as good at actually being Thieves as single-class Thieves.

While it is true, that a mage/thief multi or dual wont be as good a Thief as a pure classed one (staggered progression for skills, backstab, Thac0 etc.) in the long run the access to arcane spells make the multi and dual versions much more potent and useful. It also adds a whole new world of versatility to the character. Come up across something immune to backstabs? Zap it. Come up against something immune to zapping? Backstab it. You are also a far more valuable member of the team because you can do all the outside of combat utility stuff people love thieve's for but you can also buff/debuff enemies. For all of the toughest fights I've always been far more happy I had a decent mage than a decent thief. Taking down enemy spell protections is necesary in order to be successful in a lot of the games toughest fights, backstabbing enemies isn't as much.

Mungri

And not to mention that the mage is actually the single strongest class in BG2, followed by a Sorcerer when they are correctly played.

If you have a team with a blade, aerie, nalia and neera, a pure thief is going to be a useless addition. All you need is someone to handle traps and locks, which tbh even nalia can do with a couple of rings, but she cant get 100 open locks without modding her thief skills, only 85. But if you use EE keeper to change her thief skills to a legit 75 detect traps and 75 open locks, she can get every trap and lock in the game with the two thief rings.

Schneidend

GoodSteve said:

While it is true, that a mage/thief multi or dual wont be as good a Thief as a pure classed one (staggered progression for skills, backstab, Thac0 etc.) in the long run the access to arcane spells make the multi and dual versions much more potent and useful. It also adds a whole new world of versatility to the character. Come up across something immune to backstabs? Zap it. Come up against something immune to zapping? Backstab it. You are also a far more valuable member of the team because you can do all the outside of combat utility stuff people love thieve's for but you can also buff/debuff enemies. For all of the toughest fights I've always been far more happy I had a decent mage than a decent thief. Taking down enemy spell protections is necesary in order to be successful in a lot of the games toughest fights, backstabbing enemies isn't as much.

I'm usually more happy to backstab a troll for 40 damage and instantly KO it for Korgan to finish off with Stonefire, at no risk of damage to the party at all, than to have Edwin use up one or more of his spells unnecessarily. I have Edwin for zapping, and Hexxat for backstabbing. Why would I want to hinder either of their single-class level progression to homogenize them?

GoodSteve

Schneidend said:

GoodSteve said:

While it is true, that a mage/thief multi or dual wont be as good a Thief as a pure classed one (staggered progression for skills, backstab, Thac0 etc.) in the long run the access to arcane spells make the multi and dual versions much more potent and useful. It also adds a whole new world of versatility to the character. Come up across something immune to backstabs? Zap it. Come up against something immune to zapping? Backstab it. You are also a far more valuable member of the team because you can do all the outside of combat utility stuff people love thieve's for but you can also buff/debuff enemies. For all of the toughest fights I've always been far more happy I had a decent mage than a decent thief. Taking down enemy spell protections is necesary in order to be successful in a lot of the games toughest fights, backstabbing enemies isn't as much.

I'm usually more happy to backstab a troll for 40 damage and instantly KO it for Korgan to finish off with Stonefire, at no risk of damage to the party at all, than to have Edwin use up one or more of his spells unnecessarily. I have Edwin for zapping, and Hexxat for backstabbing. Why would I want to hinder either of their single-class level progression to homogenize them?

I guess the easy answer is: more versatility. When you come up against something that is immune to backstabs Hexxat will be fairly useless but if you had a thief/mage that character would not. It makes them more reliable in more situations that might otherwise see them standing around doing nothing or very little.

Akihiko

Okay. If I wanted an uber strong amazing party, I'd just start a solo multiplayer game and make all my characters. I don't. I want fun. I want a thief. I never once said I wanted the strongest party possible. And this entire topic is getting derailed.

Schneidend

@GoodSteve
Hexxat was able to disarm a few traps, open a lock or two, picked a few pockets, and backstab the henchman of the backstab-immune, all of which helped me GET to that backstab-immune enemy in the first place. She also scouted out said backstab-immune without using any spells, and is able to use her 20 Strength and Dex to either stab or throw knives at the enemy when the fighting starts.

She'll also get Thief HLAs, which she would not get as a dual-class.

Mungri

Your original reasoning for wanting a pure thief was because you thought a mage / thief is more fragile due to a lack of armour. If its for role play reasons then that's a different thing, but that wasn't the reason you gave.

Its not really an issue to give the game a lower score over either, you can always add your own thief to your party, or use EE keeper / Mods to customise or add more NPCs.

GoodSteve

Schneidend said:

@GoodSteve
Hexxat was able to disarm a few traps, open a lock or two, picked a few pockets, and backstab the henchman of the backstab-immune, all of which helped me GET to that backstab-immune enemy in the first place. She also scouted out said backstab-immune without using any spells, and is able to use her 20 Strength and Dex to either stab or throw knives at the enemy when the fighting starts.

She'll also get Thief HLAs, which she would not get as a dual-class.

Yes, definitely a useful character I'll not argue that one bit. Everything you just detailed though can be done with a thief/mage multi (or dual beside the HLA's, I'm not a huge fan of dual classing either) aswell with the addition of being even more useful in that final battle with the hypothetical backstab immune overlord we're talking about.

Not having to use up spell resources isn't much of a perk since the resting is so (overly) simplified in typical CRPGs but even if it weren't the thief/mage multi would be slightly less useful in the previous challenges (if he didn't use up spell resources but he could thus making him better) and then better in the final fight which would mean he at least is equalling out in terms of power all said and done. The real perk is for the people that don't mind using spells up to that point because then the character will outshine the pure class.

I agree and this is getting way off topic so I'll stop there. I am a fan of pure class thieves, I've played many myself. I am also a fan of Hexxat and I do find her very useful, I'm just saying I don't have any illusions about the power of adding /mage to a class combo.