Dont be giving Cmorgan crap for stating most of the mods are crap. He has the authority to as he made quite the majority of them and helped on the rest. Hes one of the counsil members most would think to the modding community. What he says chances are goes. Dont like it. Take it up with him. Most agree on what he says and lives by what he says from how I see his authority on G3. I can only agree with him.
All the modders if not most who worked on the mods didnt entirely care much for most of the fan based ones. They liked the ideas, but when most were made. Not alot of thought was put into them. Not all modders are geniuses. They just werent exactly flavorful.
Yes some were more twoards adding things to the games stats and stuff like Virtue and Unfinished Business. But the stuff like having a character from gauntlet and Golden axe or mods that just add stupid things like making the acorns from irenicus dungeon become a meal for someone or having a dog walk around you temporarily or these downright pointless mods all over like having angelo join you when why should an antagonist join you when hes supposed to be the minor intended bad guy working for Sarevok as a pawn! Seriously. I am with Cmorgan. Some of the mods were just downright stupid. As stated on both mods sites on G3 and PPG all forms of criticizm were allowed. So for you to get all ticked off from it being a modder. You are one poor modder who ant take criticism for what you made and I dont think you contributed at all to G3 and PPG. You only think of yoruself a modder so you can fit in the crowd. Not everyone has to like the mods and even the fabled counsil of modders even dont have to agree with your work. They will post it for people to download. But they will enforce the fact and have the right to disagree, because its just not worth it an it makes the game look stupid.
Even if mods didnt exist. The game still would have life. It would take till now till they decided to implement the game on a better more up to date platforms. Look around you how many other game companies have rereleased games to better platforms. Your arguemnt is very void. We have BG The Original Saga released with pathes in them already. Boxed sets of Baldur's Gate series been re-released hwo many times now? We have ataris D&D anthology set whih re-releases BG series again. Plus now the EE editon. ont base the EE because it was mods that inspired it. They even said it had nothing to do with the mos to release the EE Version. Its because Balur's Gate needed to be update because soon. All the old games Pre 2000 will never work again. It was now or never to get BG where it needed to be seeing every other game is getting re-released for newer platforms. So you jealous modders who make the good modders look bad just chill the frig out and stop basing this game on your mod work. You kep the game alive congradulations but you seriously arent the sole reason why the game was so good. Stop stealing all the credit from Bioware you nooby modders. Its easy to tell whose fitting in the crowd and whose here to steal the show and whose REALLY the real modders.
As others have pointed out, without mods I probably would have stopped playing and more or less forgotten about the BG series by now. I never actually would have finished a full playthrough of BG1 without Tutu, that's for certain.
Yeah, the majority of mods were poorly made or just silly/stupid, but what about things like Tashia, Unfinished Business, Tutu, BGT, banter packs, and BG1 NPC Project?
Thats why i said some of those mods are good. UB, Kelsey and Keto, BGT, Tutu, Virtue, Fixpacks and tweaks etc
They just think every mod should be given the medal of geniousy. Admit even you two Iansounet and CoM_Solaufien. I bet even some of your mods were not entirely what you expected. No one is perfect. Expect criticism or dont mod anymore.
@Xesmeraude I'm not a modder, if anything I have contributed what little I know towards providing bug reports and fixes for various mods. I'm still taking the piss at your wish (My rant was directed at you, I know and respect cmorgan's work and opinion) for mods to be obliterated. You may not like them, they may not all be perfect but what have you done?
Wow Xez you're being a little hardcore there, not sure what your problem is...
Some mods were good, and I agree that the vast majority was bad (didn't fit in the plot, in the lore, was pure fanservice or was poorly written or even useless). But people still have the right to do mods, you just don't install them FFS. Modding is part of the experience not as a player, but as a community, and is an opportunity to many to get some experience in game design just like mapmaking for strategy games like SC. In that sense, good mod support can only be a plus.
I really, really don't see why you have to shit on everyone for something that no one forces you to use. Hell, I've mostly used tweaks, any other mods that I tried I didn't like, and so I'm a strong advocate of balanced vanilla game. But I simply don't install them and that's that, I don't need to go all rambo on the poor guys.
Not being hardore. He just had no right to intend a rant on one person when im not the only one who hates the mods alone which he thinks I am. Some people just wanna pick targets to get them noticed more to start a flaming discussion. Its what he started and shouldve thought about his actions before posting it. He already proved I was true about it. he walked off in humiliation and was afraid to read it.
I didnt say what ones nor talked about what ones should be installed or not. I just dont like the fan based ones as like you and morgan and anyone else who doesnt like them. I didnt say anything about telling people not to use them. I unno where people are getting that from and should take some time to go back on the posts and read them!!! No one is telling anyone what to use and not use. Figure that out people. No one was shiting on anyone till Iansounet ated all frisky over nothing beause he thinks im telling people not to use them. Seriously who dug up that croc of crap in the first place????
Cmorgan stated he doesnt use them. Which can be he doesnt like them which can be a form of hate. But he also doesnt like conflicting mods which pretty much all the fan based mods do and nothing can be done to fix them cause they just add too much stress to the coding of many other mods an its just not worth the time working on. Others are even agreeing with me. Theyre just stupid and pointless. I dont need a Golden Axe person IN Baldur's Gate. I dont need some fluffy dog or some keyring to play th egame Who really wants some dryads acorns for supper? There just pointless ideas that have no value as to why would anyone make them in the game for. Im not saying people shouldnt use them. Its just not all the modders really put any thought into what they made. The game should be about fixing and ading content based on the lore of the game not something from another game or someone that you favored from a book or whatever. Mods should be more for adding to the game to expand on the story and the coding. Do we really need pointless characters when the ones in the game do enough for challeneg or why we need to worry about some poor guy stealing from Galoomp etc? Its just a waste of time and pointless to the story. Not asking anyone to take offense to it. The majority of G3s and PPGs forums are full more of criticism than agreements because some modders aer more towards role playing and some are more towards having fun and giggles an some are just there for i dont know what reason was the person thinking in the first place. I just think most of the mods arent exactly hwo people feel loved for them. Theyre just minor addons for more color to the pallete which isnt needed at all. So it sjust a waste of paint no matter how much more you need to apply on and leaves youwith less paint to use on the next canvas.
Aaanyway, to get back on topic -- I don't think BGEE will make modding obsolete either, and believe it will actually provide modders with new challenges and opportunities that weren't available in the original version of the game. Trent's statements regarding mod support over the past few months and the fact that they're collaborating with certain modders (like One Pixel Productions) on this project are both strong indications that they are very interested in inheriting BG's vibrant modding community for BGEE. Which can only mean good things for us.
I think the best thing about EE is that I will no longer need to do a 3 hour install in the corrrect order to get the core game running with the best graphics and least amount of bugs. The core game will now look and run the best it can right from the get go. Now if I install mods I can focus on fan made adventures instead of the basics.
Personally I used both Tutu and Trilogy. They were both great mods and all of the fixes that went along with them were much appreciated.
I was being sarastic about the Lovecraft. You have to watch South park to understand it. I just switched it with Warcraft to fit it in that for Iansounet lol
What about me? I don't care what you think, stop calling out my name I'm done with you. I was a bit heated in my first spot because I don't agree with how you shit on other people's work while providing nothing.
When someone says "I personally dont like this or that mod" it can easily be interpreted as a dismiss, but it wasnt meant as one, just a misunderstanding. And so the phrasing "I dont use" ... is somewhat more appropriate. When someone worked many hours on a mod for nothing else as fun (for what else anyway) it is an emotional thing. I mod since 2001 and not all released content was a straight A. And I tell you it doesnt feels good when someone bashes your efforts you were willing to share just because he dont like it, so why dont comment at all if its not worth anyway? This is how I generally feel and I learned to absorb criticism that is more like an insult and brings nothing constructive into the project.
Thats why I explained why modding may become obsolete since if the mods are going to be in the game itself. What will become of the modders and all their work they put time into in the older versions when now its pretty muh going to be BGEE from here on. Would there be any reason to keep our older discs anymore other than for collecting reasons? That why I feel yes alot of moda are going to become obsolete like what Camdawg said. The fixpack is for sure getting the axe and some minor tweaks and say things like spell revisions may no longer need to be added on as well. Something just tells me that yes modding is still alive but i feel wont last forever. Its just pointless adding all this stuff over an over on every single install and uninstall of the game when Id rather just install the game once and be done with it with everything all included without having BWP conflicts because youw ant to install absolutley every mod out there. Thats why i also say alot of mods aer pointless and I hate them because of that. They alreay have it made but some wanted it made differently and they caused issues with other mods and the makers still dont want to amit they got criticised for it. Nothingw e can do about that. But I just think its not long far off that we may as well just not have mods be addons. May as well just patch the mods into the game an only mods that actually make logical sense to the game. Not the Fan based ones. Keep those seperate for anyone to optionally install. Will just save all this hours of installing when it an be done in one go. I speak for everyone on this
How about people who choose not to buy BGEE, but stick with the originals instead? I might. I'm not completely convinced yet that this edition will actually be an all-out improvement for me, personally, and there a lot of others who feel the same. Not everyone is gonna automatically switch to the EE when it comes out, and so I think there will always be a place for the original games and their communities. They don't just become obsolete overnight.
As stated in the forums of Gibberlings3 an PPG all criticism is welcome wether its hateful likeful or about a modders work being obsolete or what needs to be improved to make it better. It also reflects here too. Not everyone will like and not everyone will hate. Not everyone will agree and not everyone will disagree. But what has to be done is take the riticism and dont let it bother you modders. Babayaga is right. Alot of you do put alot of work into it. But not everyone is going to say I like this but i dont wnat to use it. Some are just going to say flat out I HATE IT!!! Some even go father beyond the hate and totally destroy the makers image and you never hear from them again. I hate people who go that far. But thankfully no one is on here. Who knows maybe that could explain why Kevin Dorner vanished. But not everyone is going to mod forever. im sure Kevin got sick and tired of how much maintaining and time you really got to put into because life is more important than a video game so we an all understand why some HATE these mods as we say otherwise. Some of this stuff is what Morgan said. Turning this game from Baldur's Gate in Morrowind now. Alot of the fan based mods just dont have a place in the game at all no matter how much you look at it. But we cant argue with anyones points. Babayaga pointed it out clearly. Its not exactly hate. But more of a i just dont wanna use them period. But some just want to get to the point and say it out truthfully rather than hide behind a more respectful response. Both sides of the coin are what is needed to make the mods everyone uses. Without hate you cant have love and im sure it took both ingredients to make most of the mods where they are today
People will still play the old versions. The fixpack is still a WIP. What good is retail quality when the games had to be modded and worked on for over 10 years to fix bugs?
Besides 1PP /TobEx/fixpack(s) no mod will come to deteriorate your vanilla experience
Of course Lorfean. Thats exactly whats going on here too. Not everyone is going to play EE. Not just ause they wont. Also beause they might not be able to run it due to being on muhc higher platform reqs. Though not much more than the games original reqs. Some I have seen discussed if its even worth the $20 to pay for the game. Some have said why is Overhaul even bothering to re-release the game. Why wouldnt they? It did need a more up to date platform so no one an argue with that. Were all tired of how BG1 looks like at 640x480 and even 800x600 but even with widesreen on. It still doesnt properly fit thesreen right at 1280x768 which I play on so its not so small details on the screen. It still cant stretch the ingame interfaces properly. Every game goes through this. Skyrim had a helluva release with bugs galore as well as Fallout 3 and NV. Bethesda never were good coders. But they took the hell and back nature of it. Overhaul has their share. But what makes the former Bioware boys shine is... They take it and motivate from it.
Modders are why anyone really cares about this game more than a decade after release. And part of why many people could play it through so many times. Xezmeraude obviously dislikes them them with some sort of gut reaction, and some mods are poorly designed. But the diamonds out there made the game new and better than it had been in the past.
@Xezmeraude, I'm sorry I left the wrong impression - let me try to help clear things up. No point in anyone getting upset!
1. You have every right to dislike mods, or even an entire category of mods - many folks play the game unmodded (except perhaps the Fixpack). You also have a right to talk about what you don't like about them. Folks will generally listen to criticism better, though, if they see what you like as well as what you don't like.
2. You are not alone in thinking that mods that expand the game with NPCs and additional colors are like Thomas Kinkaid (paintings with the prints being "enhanced" by paint-by-numbers highlights) ; there are plenty of players out there who take the game content as canonical Forgotten Realms, and would prefer to not have those additional colors added to the game they love. (I'm not one of them, but there are lots of folks who are).
2. It is true that mod content is varied, in quality, in attention to detail, and in technical knowledge of the modder. And it is very true that I really dislike mods that do not at least try to play nicely with other mods, because just like any other modder, at heart I am a player first. And I want to have what I want and have it work, not be forced to choose.
3. It is true that no two players agree completely on what they want their playing experience to be. It is worse with modders - put Berelinde and I together for ideas, and we will come up with not two ideas of what a player's expericence should be, but twelve. Three of which are impossible, two of which are improbable, and at least one of which is x-rated.
4. Decisions on a mods + or - is incredibly subjective... and that is a good thing. More mods targeting the same audience is not really interesting... more mods expanding the player experience possibilities is definitely what has made sure that the game stays alive. The paint-on-the-canvas analogy is cool, But I would say that yes, the modding community is what fills the pallate with new colors. And while some folks prefer Rembrandt, others like Cezanne. Or perhaps a better analogy would be sci-fi literature - Azimov's Foundation series. The original works were great, but some folks like the six novels written in his universe after his death better than they like the initial series.
5. I definitely have mods I like and mods I don't play. But what I was getting at was the technical approach - when I play a game, I put a very small mod loadout on it. Then when I play the game again, I start over and after Fixpack I put a *different* set of mods on it. So if I am playing a game with Saerileth, I know there is no point in installing any neutral or evil NPC mods - because I am going to be going with an all LG party and there is no point in cluttering my install with stuff I am not going to be accessing. If I am playing a dude PC, I am not going to install Sarevok's Romance, even though Aeryn ROCKS as a writer - because I am not going to be romancing Sarevok. *By doing this*, most of the problems with inter-mod conflict are minimized or eradicated. So that playthrough is given the best chance of a runthrough without mod conflicts and bugs getting in the way of successful completion.
I hope that cleared some stuff up - but as a side note, I do appreciate the respect you folks are giving me, but I need to defer. I like mods, I like the community, and so I help out. But if you are looking for serious true Modders to ask opinions of, I'd say there is a huge list of folks that do this better than I do. I am more cheerleader/coordinator/tester/investigator than modder.
@Lorfean, I think you are right on the modding front. BG:EE has actively involved the i.e. community, and made sure everyone knows that they will be supportive of modding. And there are plenty of folks out there who have sections of the game that they think were left lacking. E's work on OnePixelproductions is an awesome example of an artist who felt the game graphics were not up to the best that they could be, so she has spent years hand-coloring and rejiggering the game. Or Y's Fishing For Trouble, which adds areas and quests to BG2. BG:EE will provide an opportunity for a whole new set of folks who always wanted the commoners and scene characters to be more alive, who want new quests and new areas to adventure in, and to whom the stability, openness, and friendliness of the i.e. community can yrun to make their ideas come alive in-game.
(Whew. I talk too much. Some fellow modder called stuff like this a "cmorgan WallOfText(tm)". I need to stop blabbing and get back to work!).
@Xezmeraude So you don't like mods - ok, thats your opinion. But that doesn't mean they "don't have a place in the game". If you don't like them, nobody forces you to use them, but there are many people who like to add new npc, quests, classes or items to the game. There is nothing to hate about that.
Its not underrated. Some just dont want to lie about the truth. I dont exatly HATE them. I only hate them beause they dont feel Baldur's Gate like at all. Im not the only hater of the mods so please dont think I am. This is about anyone who hates the games or refuses to use them or whatever. Either way. the different responses still fall under the same category. We just wont use them at all. We want a Baldur's Gate experience not a Morowind or Golden Axe or Some cheesy kids show like game feel to it. Thats just the way humans are. You ant change how everyone feels about the mods. But what you can change is the mod itself for both parties to agree on. Thats how mods get good reputations. They went through both sides of criticism. Modding isnt easy for anyone. Newcomers get it the worse. But how one takes it is hwo you reflect hwo they are when representing a mod. BUt then again. Everyone at one point was a Super Happy fun.... Man I cant remember what that part of fixpack was lol. But you know what I mean lol.
And its not that all npcs or the mods dont have a place. alot seem to dont. Some are just made up to make the game completely different hence where the monty python crew originated the and now its tiem for something completely different is what made me think these mods were based on. The difference just didnt add anything BG like to the flavor. Dont get me wrong. I have used alot of the mods. Even though some I dont like. I use some of them anwyays. Just ause they have a good way to lets say split reputation with Virtue. Great mod but not exactly needed in the game. But clears up alot of issues why reputation also affects your moral well being. NPCs are just for those who are bored of the games Characters and the reason I dont like them is cause you basically dont like the work Bioware at the time put into them and you dont give them enough life to try them out enough to get used to them or just ignore them alltogether. Yes Keto and Kelsey are great. But They even get boring too. I may as well just stick with whats in the game and follow the story. Less conflicts and less mods to install. Every mod im sure gets boring over time. Thats pretty much where Im at now with the fan based stuff. Bored because they dont have the replayability like most of them do. If only the other NPs were as good to install Kelsey and Keto. Yeah I prolly still use them. But some mods are just way outdated by others and out weighted by their style of it.
@Xezmeraude What? You don't hate them, you only hate them [...]? Even if that would make any sense, there's a difference between not to like something and to hate it. Again, there is no point in hating something you can so easily ignore as some mods. I don't see how adding, say, a new npc changes Baldur's Gate to Morrowind. And to call mods "some cheesy kids show like game feel" sounds very insulting. Just accept that your opinion is not the only valid one, and modding will not stop just because YOU don't like it. I don't want to change §how everyone feels about the mods", and I don't see a reason to "change [...] the mod itself" - take it as it is or not, your decision. "Modding isnt easy" - that's right, but it doesn't get easyer if someone comes along and says he hates your work just because it is a mod.
I told you to stop calling my name like I'm the person in the wrong here. My first post wasn't even that bad and you were really shitting on almost every mod out there before going all crazy and personal towards me and anyone who tried to give their insight. Drop the white-knighting and ass-licking attitude please, it makes you look even more of a fool than before.
Read what Cmorgan said in his very first initial post to this topic to unerstan why alot of mods make the game become like Morrowind to understand what I talk about.
Siresor just stated how to explian this topic about hating and not hating even at the same time. Cmorgan even explained it in a more understandable way. so just refer to his last post for the refresher.
Lets just put it this way. Would you rather install a game that omes with all the content conflict free and not spend hours and hours installing the mods you want or.....
Do you want the hassle of spending all day installing mods you want while you wait to play your game and by that time you say. Man Im bored waiting on all this. Whats the honest point anymore to add these mods anymore?
Id take the first option. id rather one straight install without a single mod and just have the mods needed included and never have to bother with the rest ever again for as long as i live. There just has to be at one point an end to the modding even for a game like this. Theres just way too many of each mod that reflects on one certain aspect of the game. You an find out allof them on that german site Cmorgan mentioned. There just has to be a point whether we all like it or not. Even the modding must come to an end one day on this game despite how much we love it. Nothing goes on forever. Hence why people will buy this game. Its mainly for the reason. Peopl eare sick and tired of all these mods we have to install just to make the game towards everyones different play style even if they cause 0 conflicts. Wasting the time to install them is enough of a choir compared to making them. Id rather make a mod than to install one. But make it hardcoded into the CD rather than to individually install it so everytime I put the disc in if I ever ened to install the game. The mod installs with it.
That shoul sum up why people including me are saying we hate these mods. Some mods just dont have a place anymore. Theres enough of that particular mod already and having to go through so many each play through and install and uninstall is just getting retarded. Thats why people should buy the EE whether they like it or not. Have the enjoyment that mods ahev been added in and we dont have to worry about ever piking them up from mod sites again.
Comments
Dont be giving Cmorgan crap for stating most of the mods are crap. He has the authority to as he made quite the majority of them and helped on the rest. Hes one of the counsil members most would think to the modding community. What he says chances are goes. Dont like it. Take it up with him. Most agree on what he says and lives by what he says from how I see his authority on G3. I can only agree with him.
All the modders if not most who worked on the mods didnt entirely care much for most of the fan based ones. They liked the ideas, but when most were made. Not alot of thought was put into them. Not all modders are geniuses. They just werent exactly flavorful.
Yes some were more twoards adding things to the games stats and stuff like Virtue and Unfinished Business. But the stuff like having a character from gauntlet and Golden axe or mods that just add stupid things like making the acorns from irenicus dungeon become a meal for someone or having a dog walk around you temporarily or these downright pointless mods all over like having angelo join you when why should an antagonist join you when hes supposed to be the minor intended bad guy working for Sarevok as a pawn! Seriously. I am with Cmorgan. Some of the mods were just downright stupid. As stated on both mods sites on G3 and PPG all forms of criticizm were allowed. So for you to get all ticked off from it being a modder. You are one poor modder who ant take criticism for what you made and I dont think you contributed at all to G3 and PPG. You only think of yoruself a modder so you can fit in the crowd. Not everyone has to like the mods and even the fabled counsil of modders even dont have to agree with your work. They will post it for people to download. But they will enforce the fact and have the right to disagree, because its just not worth it an it makes the game look stupid.
Yeah, the majority of mods were poorly made or just silly/stupid, but what about things like Tashia, Unfinished Business, Tutu, BGT, banter packs, and BG1 NPC Project?
Thats why i said some of those mods are good. UB, Kelsey and Keto, BGT, Tutu, Virtue, Fixpacks and tweaks etc
They just think every mod should be given the medal of geniousy. Admit even you two Iansounet and CoM_Solaufien. I bet even some of your mods were not entirely what you expected. No one is perfect. Expect criticism or dont mod anymore.
Umm, I don't think that @cmorgan said that he hates most mods. But maybe I wasn't paying enough attention.
But more importantly, dial down the aggression.
Some mods were good, and I agree that the vast majority was bad (didn't fit in the plot, in the lore, was pure fanservice or was poorly written or even useless). But people still have the right to do mods, you just don't install them FFS. Modding is part of the experience not as a player, but as a community, and is an opportunity to many to get some experience in game design just like mapmaking for strategy games like SC. In that sense, good mod support can only be a plus.
I really, really don't see why you have to shit on everyone for something that no one forces you to use. Hell, I've mostly used tweaks, any other mods that I tried I didn't like, and so I'm a strong advocate of balanced vanilla game. But I simply don't install them and that's that, I don't need to go all rambo on the poor guys.
I didnt say what ones nor talked about what ones should be installed or not. I just dont like the fan based ones as like you and morgan and anyone else who doesnt like them. I didnt say anything about telling people not to use them. I unno where people are getting that from and should take some time to go back on the posts and read them!!! No one is telling anyone what to use and not use. Figure that out people. No one was shiting on anyone till Iansounet ated all frisky over nothing beause he thinks im telling people not to use them. Seriously who dug up that croc of crap in the first place????
Aaanyway, to get back on topic -- I don't think BGEE will make modding obsolete either, and believe it will actually provide modders with new challenges and opportunities that weren't available in the original version of the game. Trent's statements regarding mod support over the past few months and the fact that they're collaborating with certain modders (like One Pixel Productions) on this project are both strong indications that they are very interested in inheriting BG's vibrant modding community for BGEE. Which can only mean good things for us.
Personally I used both Tutu and Trilogy. They were both great mods and all of the fixes that went along with them were much appreciated.
Besides 1PP /TobEx/fixpack(s) no mod will come to deteriorate your vanilla experience
1. You have every right to dislike mods, or even an entire category of mods - many folks play the game unmodded (except perhaps the Fixpack). You also have a right to talk about what you don't like about them. Folks will generally listen to criticism better, though, if they see what you like as well as what you don't like.
2. You are not alone in thinking that mods that expand the game with NPCs and additional colors are like Thomas Kinkaid (paintings with the prints being "enhanced" by paint-by-numbers highlights) ; there are plenty of players out there who take the game content as canonical Forgotten Realms, and would prefer to not have those additional colors added to the game they love. (I'm not one of them, but there are lots of folks who are).
2. It is true that mod content is varied, in quality, in attention to detail, and in technical knowledge of the modder. And it is very true that I really dislike mods that do not at least try to play nicely with other mods, because just like any other modder, at heart I am a player first. And I want to have what I want and have it work, not be forced to choose.
3. It is true that no two players agree completely on what they want their playing experience to be. It is worse with modders - put Berelinde and I together for ideas, and we will come up with not two ideas of what a player's expericence should be, but twelve. Three of which are impossible, two of which are improbable, and at least one of which is x-rated.
4. Decisions on a mods + or - is incredibly subjective... and that is a good thing. More mods targeting the same audience is not really interesting... more mods expanding the player experience possibilities is definitely what has made sure that the game stays alive. The paint-on-the-canvas analogy is cool, But I would say that yes, the modding community is what fills the pallate with new colors. And while some folks prefer Rembrandt, others like Cezanne. Or perhaps a better analogy would be sci-fi literature - Azimov's Foundation series. The original works were great, but some folks like the six novels written in his universe after his death better than they like the initial series.
5. I definitely have mods I like and mods I don't play. But what I was getting at was the technical approach - when I play a game, I put a very small mod loadout on it. Then when I play the game again, I start over and after Fixpack I put a *different* set of mods on it. So if I am playing a game with Saerileth, I know there is no point in installing any neutral or evil NPC mods - because I am going to be going with an all LG party and there is no point in cluttering my install with stuff I am not going to be accessing. If I am playing a dude PC, I am not going to install Sarevok's Romance, even though Aeryn ROCKS as a writer - because I am not going to be romancing Sarevok. *By doing this*, most of the problems with inter-mod conflict are minimized or eradicated. So that playthrough is given the best chance of a runthrough without mod conflicts and bugs getting in the way of successful completion.
I hope that cleared some stuff up - but as a side note, I do appreciate the respect you folks are giving me, but I need to defer. I like mods, I like the community, and so I help out. But if you are looking for serious true Modders to ask opinions of, I'd say there is a huge list of folks that do this better than I do. I am more cheerleader/coordinator/tester/investigator than modder.
@Lorfean, I think you are right on the modding front. BG:EE has actively involved the i.e. community, and made sure everyone knows that they will be supportive of modding. And there are plenty of folks out there who have sections of the game that they think were left lacking. E's work on OnePixelproductions is an awesome example of an artist who felt the game graphics were not up to the best that they could be, so she has spent years hand-coloring and rejiggering the game. Or Y's Fishing For Trouble, which adds areas and quests to BG2. BG:EE will provide an opportunity for a whole new set of folks who always wanted the commoners and scene characters to be more alive, who want new quests and new areas to adventure in, and to whom the stability, openness, and friendliness of the i.e. community can yrun to make their ideas come alive in-game.
(Whew. I talk too much. Some fellow modder called stuff like this a "cmorgan WallOfText(tm)". I need to stop blabbing and get back to work!).
I don't see how adding, say, a new npc changes Baldur's Gate to Morrowind. And to call mods "some cheesy kids show like game feel" sounds very insulting. Just accept that your opinion is not the only valid one, and modding will not stop just because YOU don't like it.
I don't want to change §how everyone feels about the mods", and I don't see a reason to "change [...] the mod itself" - take it as it is or not, your decision.
"Modding isnt easy" - that's right, but it doesn't get easyer if someone comes along and says he hates your work just because it is a mod.
Siresor just stated how to explian this topic about hating and not hating even at the same time. Cmorgan even explained it in a more understandable way. so just refer to his last post for the refresher.
Lets just put it this way. Would you rather install a game that omes with all the content conflict free and not spend hours and hours installing the mods you want or.....
Do you want the hassle of spending all day installing mods you want while you wait to play your game and by that time you say. Man Im bored waiting on all this. Whats the honest point anymore to add these mods anymore?
Id take the first option. id rather one straight install without a single mod and just have the mods needed included and never have to bother with the rest ever again for as long as i live. There just has to be at one point an end to the modding even for a game like this. Theres just way too many of each mod that reflects on one certain aspect of the game. You an find out allof them on that german site Cmorgan mentioned. There just has to be a point whether we all like it or not. Even the modding must come to an end one day on this game despite how much we love it. Nothing goes on forever. Hence why people will buy this game. Its mainly for the reason. Peopl eare sick and tired of all these mods we have to install just to make the game towards everyones different play style even if they cause 0 conflicts. Wasting the time to install them is enough of a choir compared to making them. Id rather make a mod than to install one. But make it hardcoded into the CD rather than to individually install it so everytime I put the disc in if I ever ened to install the game. The mod installs with it.
That shoul sum up why people including me are saying we hate these mods. Some mods just dont have a place anymore. Theres enough of that particular mod already and having to go through so many each play through and install and uninstall is just getting retarded. Thats why people should buy the EE whether they like it or not. Have the enjoyment that mods ahev been added in and we dont have to worry about ever piking them up from mod sites again.