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[Request] Externalise BARD class to allow DUAL/MULTICLASS

HelminoHelmino Member Posts: 106
edited November 2013 in Feature Requests
Heya, i hope that this request can be looked at, i'm a big fan of thief and bard classes, and while i'm really satisfied with thief class, i want to point out about the possibility for bard to dual class (either class/bard or bard/class) or multi in case of Half-Elf, as written in the "Complete Bard's Handbook".
Dual is completely "rule legal", and even multiclass for half elf bard with this combination:
Fighter/True * Blade * Gallant * Skald
Ranger/True * Meistersinger
Mage/Loremaster * Riddlemaster
Cleric/True
Druid/Meistersinger
Thief/True * Gypsy * Jongleur * Thespian
(of course engine doesn't allow kit to dual multi, i simply reported the book).
I hope to receive some opinion, for supporting this request by other members, and atleast (if possible xD) one answer from a member of the dev team about this. Thanks for your time :).
ps: Thanks to read this Barbarian English too xD

lestatErgTalarashaLaflammeTsyrithsine_locoRAM021GrammarsaladKenjiThacoBell
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Comments

  • mic6mic6 Member Posts: 8
    would love to be able to dual class a bard or at least being able to select a kit for your second class instead of the first.

    HelminoAnteros
  • MilochMiloch Member Posts: 863
    The game can support dual-classing (bard => class at least) by modifying dualclas.2da and related files. Supporting new multi-class combinations would be much more difficult since there's a finite number of class flags, including ones for existing combos that are referenced in existing scripts etc. None of this would require further externalization though, just regular modification work to varying extents.

    HelminoEudaemoniumCrevsDaakKenji
  • HelminoHelmino Member Posts: 106
    edited November 2013
    Miloch said:

    The game can support dual-classing (bard => class at least) by modifying dualclas.2da and related files. Supporting new multi-class combinations would be much more difficult since there's a finite number of class flags, including ones for existing combos that are referenced in existing scripts etc. None of this would require further externalization though, just regular modification work to varying extents.

    Thanks for your answer, the game supports class/bard too? for dual i mean. And of course i'm not a modder, so if you can redirect me to a Guidoa bout that i really appreciate your help!

  • MilochMiloch Member Posts: 863
    Not sure if class => bard is supported... in theory, you could add another column to dualclas.2da for BARD but I'm not sure if it would work.

    And actually, I might be wrong about changing the BARD row for dualclas.2da. According to the link below, it might crash the game if changed for bards and paladins.

    http://forums.gibberlings3.net/index.php?showtopic=612

    But if you want to try it, the link below describes how.

    http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/comment/184038/#Comment_184038

    If it does crash the game, maybe it's something we could look into. (To undo your change, just delete the files you changed from your override folder.)

    CrevsDaak
  • HelminoHelmino Member Posts: 106
    edited November 2013
    In 2 days i'll try, i hope is not difficult because i'm not a modder, i really appreciate your help :) i tell you how this is going and hopefully if this crash maybe a patch could help us! :)

    ps:not at home today guys, if someone try show us your result ;)

    Post edited by Helmino on
  • HelminoHelmino Member Posts: 106
    edited November 2013
    Ok Guys (@Miloch @AndreaColombo), here is the results of my the tests with BG:EE (not with shadows of Amn but after patch 1.2 i think is the same right?):

    1) Adding a column to the file "dualclas.2da" let the game crah at start, as already stated by Miloch before,
    So is impossible to dual froma class to Bard actually.
    (i even used the same space from the old column to the new one to avoid any kind of error related to syntax, just in case :P)
    2) Enabling Fighter as dual class instead let me as a Bard dual to a fighter, take 2 specialization point in 2 weapons, and retain the bard class. This way charname continue to gain experiance in the bard class only, it don't even state the fighter class into the character sheet (count me only as a bard).
    He gain the same HP as for the bard and the bard TACHO.
    So it don't work.
    I'll attach the file at the bottom of the topic if you want to test them.
    So @Miloch you think that this crash issue could be check? If you don't add dual or multi to Bard, atleast we can mod it if bard file could be esternalised.
    I wait (all the bard!) for your response :) !
    ps: I'll attach the file later to avoid triple post, the edit don't allow me to edit to add them

  • HelminoHelmino Member Posts: 106
    edited November 2013
    Miloch said:

    I have raised this as a new feature request (externalizing new classes basically, or in this case, class combinations). We'll see what happens. :)

    For the baaaaaaard! thanks a lot i appreciate your help Miloch :), i hope to see this happen! ( have to wait for the amazing Italian translation, so we will see :D )
    ps: @Miloch it can be see in the externalisation thread?

    RAM021
  • TalarashaTalarasha Member Posts: 62
    edited November 2013
    I've been waiting positively AGES for this feature! Fallen Paladin/Thief as it was back at original BG1, Ranger/Thief, Druid/Mage and other crazy stuff! Oh, and the shiny three/four/five dualclassing as PnP, and selectable kit for second class, and, and...

    HelminoRAM021
  • mic6mic6 Member Posts: 8
    I'll keep my fingers crossed Miloch :)
    Would be very interesting to try a druid/bard combo, especially if it would also be possible to select a kit for the second class..

  • TalarashaTalarasha Member Posts: 62
    edited November 2013
    Miloch said:


    Oh, and according to the Complete Paladin's Handbook, apparently paladins are supposed to be able to dual-class to any other class except fighter, mage or thief.

    True, but paladin/thief is an alignment-based restriction, as in ranger/druid case. Paladin, who is no longer lawful good (fallen), must able to dual (and this was an option BG1).

    The mage restriction indeed listed in this book, but under "paladin to class" part.
    The "class to paladin" part says that all except warriors avaible.

    P.S. Fingers crossed! ^^

    Post edited by Talarasha on
  • SarlyssiaSarlyssia Member Posts: 27
    Miloch said:

    Ok, my review of the rulebooks shows me the following should be valid class combos:

    MAGE_BARD
    FIGHTER_BARD
    CLERIC_BARD
    THIEF_BARD
    PALADIN_BARD
    DRUID_BARD
    RANGER_BARD
    DRUID_MAGE
    FIGHTER_MAGE_DRUID
    DRUID_RANGER
    CLERIC_PALADIN
    PALADIN_RANGER
    DRUID_THIEF

    I can't find any evidence for RANGER_THIEF, but then I can't find any evidence against it. Sounds like a valid combo to me (assuming you can be a good-aligned, Robin Hood type of thief).

    Would MAGE/CLERIC/THIEF be a valid multiclass too? Since MAGE/CLERIC, MAGE/THIEF and CLERIC/THIEF are all valid I never understood why we couldn't switch fighter with thief.

    TsyrithCrevsDaakFaydark
  • HelminoHelmino Member Posts: 106
    edited November 2013
    Miloch said:

    A while back, I think I saw a list of other multi/dual class combinations that are valid in 2nd edition rules but not permitted by the engine. Does anyone have that information handy?

    Edit: Two of these, of course, are the half-elf druid/mage and fighter/mage/druid described as legal in the original game manual.

    Oh, and according to the Complete Paladin's Handbook, apparently paladins are supposed to be able to dual-class to any other class except fighter, mage or thief.

    Ok, my review of the rulebooks shows me the following should be valid class combos:

    MAGE_BARD
    FIGHTER_BARD
    CLERIC_BARD
    THIEF_BARD
    PALADIN_BARD
    DRUID_BARD
    RANGER_BARD
    DRUID_MAGE
    FIGHTER_MAGE_DRUID
    DRUID_RANGER
    CLERIC_PALADIN
    PALADIN_RANGER
    DRUID_THIEF

    I can't find any evidence for RANGER_THIEF, but then I can't find any evidence against it. Sounds like a valid combo to me (assuming you can be a good-aligned, Robin Hood type of thief).

    As i remember the list you posted @Miloch is correct, even ranger too. So you think that the externalization will be about all this classes?

  • bescheidbescheid Member Posts: 16
    Would sooo love the ranger bard and the new druid combinations. Sounds really fun!!

    KurumiAnteros
  • VarwulfVarwulf Member Posts: 563
    Bard/Druid, Druid/Mage, me likey :)

    KurumiAnterosCrevsDaak
  • TalarashaTalarasha Member Posts: 62
    So, @Miloch, how things going nowadays? As far as I can see, IWD:EE will not contain externalised class combo. Even more, with BG2 engine we will loose the ability to dual fallen rangers and paladins. Does our request still on the table?

    RAM021
  • TalarashaTalarasha Member Posts: 62
    So, @Miloch, how things going nowadays? As far as I can see, IWD:EE will not contain externalised class combo. Even more, with BG2 engine we will loose the ability to dual fallen rangers and paladins. Does our request still on the table?

    RAM021
  • RAM021RAM021 Member Posts: 371
    Miloch said:

    A while back, I think I saw a list of other multi/dual class combinations that are valid in 2nd edition rules but not permitted by the engine. Does anyone have that information handy?

    Edit: Two of these, of course, are the half-elf druid/mage and fighter/mage/druid described as legal in the original game manual.

    Oh, and according to the Complete Paladin's Handbook, apparently paladins are supposed to be able to dual-class to any other class except fighter, mage or thief.

    Ok, my review of the rulebooks shows me the following should be valid class combos:

    MAGE_BARD
    FIGHTER_BARD
    CLERIC_BARD
    THIEF_BARD
    PALADIN_BARD
    DRUID_BARD
    RANGER_BARD
    DRUID_MAGE
    FIGHTER_MAGE_DRUID
    DRUID_RANGER
    CLERIC_PALADIN
    PALADIN_RANGER
    DRUID_THIEF

    I can't find any evidence for RANGER_THIEF, but then I can't find any evidence against it. Sounds like a valid combo to me (assuming you can be a good-aligned, Robin Hood type of thief).

    A literature review produces the following additional options:

    BARD
    -Dwarf Skald
    -Halfling Jester
    -Gnome Jester

    Multi
    /Fighter
    /Thief
    /Ranger
    /Mage
    /Cleric
    /Druid

    Dual
    /any (alignment could be an issue)


    BARBARIAN
    Dual
    /Cleric

    Multi
    /Cleric


    DRUID
    Multi
    /Fighter
    /Ranger
    /Mage
    /Fighter/Mage

    Dual (alignment could be an issue)
    /Bard
    /Mage
    /Thief


    PALADIN
    -HElf
    Cavalier
    -HElf
    -Elf

    Dual from Paladin to
    /Cleric
    /any non-Warrior (alignment could be an issue)

    Dual to Paladin from
    /any non-Warrior (alignment could be an issue)


    RANGER
    Multi
    /Cleric
    /Druid
    (/Mage)
    (/Bard)

    Dual (alignment could be an issue)
    /any


    THIEF
    Dual
    /any


    And additional racial multiclass options:


    Halfling
    CT
    DT
    FC
    FD

    Dwarf
    CT

    Elf
    CR
    CT
    CM
    FD
    DM
    DT
    RM
    FMC
    FCT
    CMT

    TalarashaAbel
  • FaydarkFaydark Member Posts: 276
    @RAM021 Elf CMT.. that's what I'd like to see one day. My three favorite classes in one package.

    I can dream.

    RAM021CrevsDaak
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,428
    Talarasha said:

    Miloch said:


    Oh, and according to the Complete Paladin's Handbook, apparently paladins are supposed to be able to dual-class to any other class except fighter, mage or thief.

    True, but paladin/thief is an alignment-based restriction, as in ranger/druid case. Paladin, who is no longer lawful good (fallen), must able to dual (and this was an option BG1).

    The mage restriction indeed listed in this book, but under "paladin to class" part.
    The "class to paladin" part says that all except warriors avaible.

    P.S. Fingers crossed! ^^
    I wonder if this can be modded (ie fallen paladin that can dual (eg) to thief.

    I feel pretty sure it can, actually, especially if it was in bg1. Let me think out loud:

    Create unselectable fighter kit named "fallen paladin" that can, among other things, dual to thief.

    Spl in fallen clab that changes class id to fighter. Another that, after a short delay(?), summons a creature that adds the new kit.

    I think that is it

  • mic6mic6 Member Posts: 8
    Has this been implemented yet or still not possible to dual or multiclass a bard?

    RAM021
  • RAM021RAM021 Member Posts: 371
    Sadly still not possible :(

  • mic6mic6 Member Posts: 8
    A pity, was really looking forward to this.

    RAM021
  • FaydarkFaydark Member Posts: 276
    Is there somewhere we can see which features are on the devs "confirmed TODO" list or something like that?
    More dual/multiclass options are one my more desired features for the IE:EE games.

    RAM021
  • OurQuestIsVainOurQuestIsVain Member Posts: 201
    Thief/Bard would be odd. Kind of like a Cleric/Druid or Sorcerer/Mage. I would love to play it though. Remove those pesky race restrictions while you're at it so I can play with my favorite race, Halfling.

    RAM021
  • AstroBryGuyAstroBryGuy Member Posts: 3,414
    Faydark said:

    Is there somewhere we can see which features are on the devs "confirmed TODO" list or something like that?
    More dual/multiclass options are one my more desired features for the IE:EE games.

    BG2 Tweaks can open up all available multiclass options to all races and make dual-classing available to all races. It can also open up dual-classing for barbarians and wild mages (which are implemented as fighter and mage kits, respectively). It does not add new multiclass options like Thief/Bard.

    elminsterRAM021
  • HeraldHerald Member Posts: 1
    I would love to play a monk or kensia / sorcerer. That would rule.

    RAM021
  • mic6mic6 Member Posts: 8
    Just wondering if this request has been implemented yet (or maybe through a mod)... So that it's possible to dual/multiclass a bard?

    RAM021
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