debuff first and spell trigger lower resist x3, use spell like cone of cold, vampire touch anything with instant cast (robe of vecna) a single mage with maximum buff + haste juste run around and cast.
Had problems with Dragomir being early in the game. Used a potion with Oil of Speed, picked the lock to the Chest and found Daystar (double damage to undead) and used that to kill him. Otherwise I guess running back and forth from the crypt to the Inn s a simple way of having him trigger spells that get spoiled...
I don't really recall him as an encounter. On my one evil walkthrough of BG 2:EE I picked up Hexxat fairly quickly in the game (i.e. before going slavers or any Stronghold quests) to fill out my party, and I can't recall having difficulties with the Dragomir encounter.
I did it only once, was quick, fast and easy.
But it was not the first quest, i had the correct equipment and an other advantage, i am used to play the tactics mod irenicus dungeon, the best school to learn to deal with over leveled enemies without having levels and special items.
I think that every player should try and master that mod component as it can change the way he fight making it so more efficient. Even if the player dont want to play the rest of the mod to create some different class charnames and play the tactics start dungeon at 80k xp can change forever the player, making him reach a higher level.
I do this quest early in the game and just make sure my fighter has got a +3 weapon (usually the Blade of Roses) and send him/her in alone, buffed with Chaotic Commands and Haste - job done.
In my last playthroughs, I always send either Korgan or Minsc in with a + 3 three weapon when I want to get him killed quickly as both has berserker rage. Come to think of it, i never really had any problems with him with any party composition. Normally, I beat him at lvl 9/10 chars, as it is one of the first quests you can do after you escape chateau Irencus.
It's not Dragomir that's the big threat in this quest. It's the random devil shades that show up if you delay at all. Those are ToB monsters, and they can show up with a party at 1 million experience, on core difficulty. Permanently hasted, level drain on hit with no save, spawns a pair of shadow fiends when it dies... ouch.
Then, of course, you do it really early to avoid that, with an underequipped party. You can't rely on immunity to his tricks, so you have to either fight unfair or accept a challenge.
Finding enough +2 weapons to hurt him, at least, shouldn't be a problem. A standard run through the started dungeon will typically get you a +2 for your protagonist and a +2 two-handed sword, you can buy at least one more +2 or +3 weapon from Bernard after clearing the back rooms, and there's a +2 dagger in the tomb itself for "Hexxat".
It is also possible to steal some +2 weapons from various merchants like myra in the promenade.
About level draining i find it annoying, but every temple can easily fix it.
It is true that some EE introduced battles are at an other level of difficulty from the traditional vanilla ones, so some players can find them almost impossible without tricks or exploits, but with proper tactics are doable even at low level.
Extreme thread necro, to discuss an undead/necromantic/lich. The meta in this one is juicy and delights me
In the time-spanning spirit of this thread I offer a time-spanning solution. Daystar has recently been patched to match it’s description (+4 to hit vs evil) double damage vs evil, sunray once per day.
This makes daystar a late-game quality weapon that you can access very early in the game. Shadow Patrick also doesn’t stand a chance.
It’s questionable if actually using it for this encounter counts as s “fair” fight of course...
I beat him only with my main. The +2 dagger a d the protection of undead 2hrs. I left my group behind went to him and just attacked. He never hit me or tried to hit me once. And I sat game down and won without even touching the system. Easy as 1 2 3
We’re talking about the guy who originally has Hexxat’s cloak right? If so, I never recalled any difficulty killing him. A hasted kensai dual wielding daystar and burning earth kills him pretty easily. This is normally one of the early quests I go to just because I want Hexxat, or really just her bag of holding.
I approach this (and many other fights) with the following maxim in mind: "there is no such thing as a fair fight." Either I'm fighting on my terms or their terms, and I'd much rather fight on my terms.
(and as the game is over if I lose, there's not much incentive for me to fight fair on their terms, now is there?)
I approach this (and many other fights) with the following maxim in mind: "there is no such thing as a fair fight." Either I'm fighting on my terms or their terms, and I'd much rather fight on my terms.
i completely agree with you on this.
still for me to fight on my terms means tactical dominance, to have every enemy exactly where i want and target who i want, to have certain attacks (like wing buffets) or spells target a protected character or a cheap summon instead of damaging half of the party.
sometimes it means also to spot the enemy unseen and drop a preemptive bombing, but then i make the party visible by the enemies, i use the fog of war, but never abuse of it and of the ai that make theenemies don't react if they are attacked but don't see who is doing it.
this to tell that imo to fight on our terms and to use/abuse of ai weaknesses or use cheap tactics that make the victory effortless and without any risk are 2 completely different things.
it is perfectly possible to fight in a fair way and at the same time at your terms.
I just made an evil mage/thief, soloed my way out of Irenicus' dungeon, and quickly moved to build the team up. Got Korgan, Viconia, and Hexxat. Then as I'm on my way to get Edwin, Hexxat starts whining and threatening to leave if we don't go to the tomb. So I ended up down there with a party of 4 low-level characters. Korgan kept getting charmed right off the bat and only had his starter +1 axe, so i kept him out of the fight; backstabbing wasn't killing him and fake-Hexxat is next to useless; I didn't have enough monster summons to kill him quickly enough, and 3 fireballs wouldn't do the trick either.
So I looked thru the spells I had and found Viconia was going to be my hero. I casted haste, luck, and repulse undead. While he was slammed back into the wall, I slammed him with Melf's Meteors, Holy Smite, and Magic Missles. Sucka went down like a 200-year-old ho. Hardly landed a hit on us.
If you had repulse undead you would also had chaotic commands, both are lev5 and Korgan protected by it would had been immune to charm. But Viconia needs 450K xp to be able to cast 2 lev 5 spells and possibly she didn't had it as you say your party was at low level so having Korgan immune to charm would had meant to fight without repulse undead.
Anyway you prevailed, there is more then one way to win a BG2 battle, well done!
There's a weird loophole in Dragomir's AI. He spams Domination every two rounds, but not on anyone immune to charm ... or immune to anything else. So, for the standard evil party...
Viconia won't get targeted, because of her 90% elf resistance to charm.
Dorn won't get targeted, because he's always immune to fear and level drain.
Korgan needs to add an immunity. Raging will do it.
Edwin needs to add an immunity, best done by casting a spell. And if you're casting a spell to protect against that charm, I recommend Remove Fear/Resist Fear (level 2 mage or level 1 cleric), which covers the whole party.
I love Dragomir's tomb and dungeon crawling for treasure with Clara. Personally, I don't enjoy or care for Hexxat as a character and never take her. But I love this side-quest. The opening cut-scene is cool, it's a good use of an empty building in the graveyard district - it's a lot of fun! I have nostalgia when it comes to it. A free bag of holding (before killing Hexxat) is always nice too. Or role-playing someone disgusted by Hexxat's actions (or having companions who would be disgusted present) and instantly killing her after the reveal.
Considering I go early, my party is usually not protected from negative plane protection. I enjoy playing as a thief or bard, and the only cleric or druid I ever take in Baldur's Gate II is Aerie if I am playing a good party. So yeah, I sometimes cheese this encounter. For non-cleric good parties the closest thing to negative plane protection is getting Minsc to berserk. With a berserked Minsc I can beat Dragomir in a fair fight but it may require a few reloads lol
You're probably wondering what my parties look like when I do play, because I usually don't take a cleric. I depend on items for negative plane protection instead of clerics.
My favourite companions are: Imoen, Minsc, TOB companion, Valygar, Haer'Dalis, Neera, Yoshimo, Wilson the bear and Xzar (but he's not playable in the 2nd game). I'm fond of and don't mind: Aerie, Nalia and Cernd.
I tend to take the same companions. I know who I like. I like the family close-knit group feel, even when playing evil so I always take Imoen and the TOB companion. Minsc, Valygar, Haer'Dalis and Neera are staples of my diet in my parties
I play on core-rules and have grown used to not playing with a cleric. There's always regeneration rings, healing potions, weapons which suck the life from enemies, items which allow you to heal yourself a few times per day, etc, etc. A ranger like Minsc or Valygar have access to some spells too. Items which regenerate health are good replacements for healing spells.
My parties always have Imoen and TOB companion and contain combinations of the companions I listed above.
Never had a problem beating Dragomir in any of my runthroughs. I usually rush him with my party in melee without any buffing, and succeed even at low levels, so I'm not sure why this thread displays him as a problem. It could be that my party is protected against Charm through the various helmets available early on, but I can't honestly remember if I had them or not. Does he even drain levels? I'm never drained by him, only a bit damaged by his big sword (IIRC he looks like a cambion doesn't he?).
No level drain on Dragomir; the level drain threats are earlier in the dungeon. Like Hexxat, vampires using manufactured weapons don't drain levels with them. (Dragomir uses a plain +2 two-handed sword, which is undroppable)
He does hit pretty hard - he's a level 10 fighter with grand mastery, the appropriate weapon style, and 18/00 strength. But that part's fair, to the point that a PC could easily replicate it.
And yes, he uses the same "death knight" animation as cambions.
Comments
But it was not the first quest, i had the correct equipment and an other advantage, i am used to play the tactics mod irenicus dungeon, the best school to learn to deal with over leveled enemies without having levels and special items.
I think that every player should try and master that mod component as it can change the way he fight making it so more efficient. Even if the player dont want to play the rest of the mod to create some different class charnames and play the tactics start dungeon at 80k xp can change forever the player, making him reach a higher level.
In my last playthroughs, I always send either Korgan or Minsc in with a + 3 three weapon when I want to get him killed quickly as both has berserker rage. Come to think of it, i never really had any problems with him with any party composition. Normally, I beat him at lvl 9/10 chars, as it is one of the first quests you can do after you escape chateau Irencus.
Then, of course, you do it really early to avoid that, with an underequipped party. You can't rely on immunity to his tricks, so you have to either fight unfair or accept a challenge.
Finding enough +2 weapons to hurt him, at least, shouldn't be a problem. A standard run through the started dungeon will typically get you a +2 for your protagonist and a +2 two-handed sword, you can buy at least one more +2 or +3 weapon from Bernard after clearing the back rooms, and there's a +2 dagger in the tomb itself for "Hexxat".
About level draining i find it annoying, but every temple can easily fix it.
It is true that some EE introduced battles are at an other level of difficulty from the traditional vanilla ones, so some players can find them almost impossible without tricks or exploits, but with proper tactics are doable even at low level.
In the time-spanning spirit of this thread I offer a time-spanning solution. Daystar has recently been patched to match it’s description (+4 to hit vs evil) double damage vs evil, sunray once per day.
This makes daystar a late-game quality weapon that you can access very early in the game. Shadow Patrick also doesn’t stand a chance.
It’s questionable if actually using it for this encounter counts as s “fair” fight of course...
(and as the game is over if I lose, there's not much incentive for me to fight fair on their terms, now is there?)
still for me to fight on my terms means tactical dominance, to have every enemy exactly where i want and target who i want, to have certain attacks (like wing buffets) or spells target a protected character or a cheap summon instead of damaging half of the party.
sometimes it means also to spot the enemy unseen and drop a preemptive bombing, but then i make the party visible by the enemies, i use the fog of war, but never abuse of it and of the ai that make theenemies don't react if they are attacked but don't see who is doing it.
this to tell that imo to fight on our terms and to use/abuse of ai weaknesses or use cheap tactics that make the victory effortless and without any risk are 2 completely different things.
it is perfectly possible to fight in a fair way and at the same time at your terms.
So I looked thru the spells I had and found Viconia was going to be my hero. I casted haste, luck, and repulse undead. While he was slammed back into the wall, I slammed him with Melf's Meteors, Holy Smite, and Magic Missles. Sucka went down like a 200-year-old ho. Hardly landed a hit on us.
Anyway you prevailed, there is more then one way to win a BG2 battle, well done!
Viconia won't get targeted, because of her 90% elf resistance to charm.
Dorn won't get targeted, because he's always immune to fear and level drain.
Korgan needs to add an immunity. Raging will do it.
Edwin needs to add an immunity, best done by casting a spell. And if you're casting a spell to protect against that charm, I recommend Remove Fear/Resist Fear (level 2 mage or level 1 cleric), which covers the whole party.
Considering I go early, my party is usually not protected from negative plane protection. I enjoy playing as a thief or bard, and the only cleric or druid I ever take in Baldur's Gate II is Aerie if I am playing a good party. So yeah, I sometimes cheese this encounter. For non-cleric good parties the closest thing to negative plane protection is getting Minsc to berserk.
You're probably wondering what my parties look like when I do play, because I usually don't take a cleric. I depend on items for negative plane protection instead of clerics.
My favourite companions are: Imoen, Minsc, TOB companion, Valygar, Haer'Dalis, Neera, Yoshimo, Wilson the bear and Xzar (but he's not playable in the 2nd game). I'm fond of and don't mind: Aerie, Nalia and Cernd.
I tend to take the same companions. I know who I like. I like the family close-knit group feel, even when playing evil so I always take Imoen and the TOB companion. Minsc, Valygar, Haer'Dalis and Neera are staples of my diet in my parties
I play on core-rules and have grown used to not playing with a cleric. There's always regeneration rings, healing potions, weapons which suck the life from enemies, items which allow you to heal yourself a few times per day, etc, etc. A ranger like Minsc or Valygar have access to some spells too. Items which regenerate health are good replacements for healing spells.
My parties always have Imoen and TOB companion and contain combinations of the companions I listed above.
He does hit pretty hard - he's a level 10 fighter with grand mastery, the appropriate weapon style, and 18/00 strength. But that part's fair, to the point that a PC could easily replicate it.
And yes, he uses the same "death knight" animation as cambions.
Usually the flail +3 is enough but I think the +2 weapons such as that early scimitar or longsword are fine. Or daystar.
He hits quite decently but you can use skeletons to soak up some hit. I think he is an ok-enemy, not too strong not too weak.