Am I the only one who doesn't actually like the first Enhanced Edition? D:

TethorilofLathander

The only thing I can really understand about it is the console/widescreen changes. Though it doesn't affect me, it most certainly would for others.

I feel like there are a few things that make the Enhanced Edition worse than the original...

Cartoon styled cutscenes:

Though the original cutscenes could be considered out of date, they still added the right feel to the places or situation. I couldn't begin to describe how bad the starting cinematic was compared to the original.

New characters:

Whether this is a case of using the first EE to introduce them and then advancing their stories in BG2:EE I'm unsure, yet they don't tend to offer much to the story so far. Dorn is a big evil badass, which almost takes away some of Sarevok's menace. Let us remember that Sarevok is meant to be the meanest, most vicious enemy in the game, yet if you stood him next to Dorn...it would take something away from that (plus, if you play with a good party, Dorn feels somewhat of an outsider and/or useless). Neera seems to me like a mix of Imoen and Aerie, she looks pretty similar to Imoen and has the confidence of Aerie. Her unpredictable class makes her useful to only the patient, and let's face it...your foster father has been murdered and the Sword Coast is in ruin from the iron crisis and bandit raids, but don't worry, I've got this girl who might make things worse! Rasaad I feel was introduced just because the monk class is very underestimated, and it is. I've used a monk during the whole NWN: Shadows of Undrentide campaign and he was pretty fantastic, but again, going back to the storyline it feels just like I've encountered a thin, head woundless Minsc.

Extras from SOA:

Shadows of Amn has to be my favourite out of the quadruplet and one of the main reasons for this was the vast extravaganza of choice. You could equip two swords, you could fire more arrows, use simpler but more useful items (scroll cases etc). But now this has been put into the original it feels like how I felt when I played Icewind Dale after the Bhaalspawn saga, quite uninspired (until I got to the storyline).

I understand that there are certain things they can change and can't change, yet I feel as if the Enhanced Edition was just a chance for people to visit new areas with new characters and just go on an all out power trip. The story is what attracts me (and many others) to Baldur's Gate, not these sort of additions.

Jaheira: "Hey CHARNAME, shouldn't we go to Baldur's Gate and figure out what's been going on with these bandits murdering innocents and clues towards Gorion's death?"
CHARNAME: "Don't be silly! We've got to do some gladiator contests and scale the Cloud Peaks to help ol' Rassy"

Elendar

The widescreen changes that made it actually playable is good enough reason for me to buy it.

Shin

The new NPCs and the widescreen changes are mostly superficial elements imo. The real benefit is that the engine gets opened up and previously unaccessible features are externalized; and that instead of a static, officially abandonded game we get an evolving and officially supported one.
The loss of loading times and smoother mouse movement is nice as well.

Illustair

Let's not forget the iPad release. Portable version of your favorite game? Existence of EE made that possible. That's a feature on its own I guess.

Mungri

I dont really like the first game cos the level cap in the second spoils me too much.

Ayiekie

The lack of load times, better stability after patch, better graphical interface, and the new characters who add new story (and would actually continue to get fleshed out in the sequel, unlike most of the original BG characters) were the draws for me.

I feel your complaint at the end is rather silly, since a) the gladiator contest is not a part of the main game but a separate additional piece of content done with a full customised party, and b) you do sidequests for several of the original characters, too.

If you don't want to help Rasaad sort things out with the evil monks that did great personal harm to him, then you don't have to. I hope you didn't bother to go to any of the Tales of the Sword Coast stuff, either, though, since that's far more extraneous and basically amounts to your character going "Screw the important things going on, I want more loot!"

That being said, of course most people here like the Enhanced Editions; it's the official forum for the Enhanced Editions. I rather imagine most people who hate them end up on different forums.

reedmilfam

The real question is whether you enjoy the game or not, as is. I couldn't install BG from my discs and had a choice to go TUTU, or to do a new install that is actually compatible with my system. Now, I have it.

I did play each of the added (new) NPC's, just to do their quests and see. They were fine, but (in my opinion) unnecessary. It's not a big deal, however, as one can play through without using them at all.

I love the better item descriptions. For instance, magical arrows tell you more about the item. I also love the quick area transitions - it's no longer a major decision whether or not I wish to enter a building or whatnot.

mjs

i actually prefer the first to the second, since downloading bg2ee i've not been as mad on it as I was with bgee and i've even gone back to bgee to carry on some playthrough (for the 9th time!) without bothering to finish the bg2ee first

Silverstar

Did he really just say scroll cases and other additions from the sequel made BG:EE a lesser game?.... what? I must be missing something.

Erg

Silverstar said:

Did he really just say scroll cases and other additions from the sequel made BG:EE a lesser game?.... what? I must be missing something.

Yep, you are missing a 2

TethorilofLathander

So it's mostly technical reasons for purchasing BG:EE?

@Ayiekie, I never said I hated them, merely that I dislike them. I figured this was the forum for Baldur's Gate, not ONLY the enhanced editions.

Silverstar said:

Did he really just say scroll cases and other additions from the sequel made BG:EE a lesser game?.... what? I must be missing something.

Yes! These are part of the things that made Shadows of Amn great. Imagine Shadows of Amn without two weilding, case using characters with only 60 arrows to a quiver. It'd just be the original on a larger scale. The addition of these things really pumped up the abilities of the characters, including the newly added ones. It also described the difference between Baldur's Gate and Amn, Baldur's Gate being quite rugged and having simple weapons & Amn having more magical items (which makes sense due to Waukeen's Promenade and the vast market).

FinaLfront

I... I just can't do it. I can't see why adding some of the BGII content into BG takes away from BGII. What I DO see, is a game that I'm more likely to play more.

Ayiekie

TethorilofLathander said:

@Ayiekie, I never said I hated them, merely that I dislike them. I figured this was the forum for Baldur's Gate, not ONLY the enhanced editions.

Oh yeah, noone's saying you have to like them to post here; just that I assume most of the people that don't like the Enhanced Editions would post on different Baldur's Gate-centric boards. But you're certainly welcome as long as you're not super-hyperbolic on how much you dislike them, which you don't seem to be so far.

Calmar

TethorilofLathander said:

Jaheira: "Hey CHARNAME, shouldn't we go to Baldur's Gate and figure out what's been going on with these bandits murdering innocents and clues towards Gorion's death?"
CHARNAME: "Don't be silly! We've got to do some gladiator contests and scale the Cloud Peaks to help ol' Rassy"

You like to roam the sword coast, explore Durlag's tower, rescue Dynaheir, or explore the secrets of Baldur's Gate city? Forget about it and concentrate on Sarevok and the bandits instead!

The main plot of both BG 1 and BG 2 is rather slim - what makes the games so huge and gives the feeling of freedom of choice are the tons of side quests.

OperativeNL

The Enhanced Editions just play so much more smoother that it's impossible not to like (for me).

I bet that 90% of the people who dislike the EE's, will play them instead of the originals anyway. And after playing the EE's for a month or so, if they were to go back to the originals', they'd be like "holy shit, how could I ever play this!!"

(I kinda feel like this because I've never played the original BG1 before BG2. Before I discovered Tutu I couldn't really play BG1 because of the old engine and everything. It was just so... so... chunky! )

TethorilofLathander

Calmar said:

TethorilofLathander said:

Jaheira: "Hey CHARNAME, shouldn't we go to Baldur's Gate and figure out what's been going on with these bandits murdering innocents and clues towards Gorion's death?"
CHARNAME: "Don't be silly! We've got to do some gladiator contests and scale the Cloud Peaks to help ol' Rassy"

You like to roam the sword coast, explore Durlag's tower, rescue Dynaheir, or explore the secrets of Baldur's Gate city? Forget about it and concentrate on Sarevok and the bandits instead!

The main plot of both BG 1 and BG 2 is rather slim - what makes the games so huge and gives the feeling of freedom of choice are the tons of side quests.

There's a difference though. Some of the side quests actually fit well into the general story, whereas travelling to the opposite end of the map and scaling a mountain when you know your mission is in the north makes little sense. Dynaheir makes sense because Minsc is a powerhouse and is on-route to the mines. Durlag's Tower I never did in the original campaign, just saved it for TotSC and exploring Baldur's Gate's secrets is pretty much the whole second half of the story anyway.

meagloth

You can't really complained about the the ee's not being as good. All the stuff from the original is still there, and if you don't want to do it, don't. Rassads quest isn't silly compared to ToSC, think abou the wolf were island. That's a week long boat ride, just before you kill Serevok. It's still better than the original, even if you would have Made it differently. Multiplayer is better, there is customer support, a new engine, and it's on my iPad. If not for the ee's most people wouldn't even play bg anymore. They have made bg more excess able to people now, and that's hardly something to complain about.

Chaotic_Good

You can totally complain about the 1ee not being as good.. The enemy generation was completely botched there were a lot of good things they did, but that one is a real game changer. What it came out to new content excluded is a poorly done bgtutu. They added the mods and lowered the enemy generation resulting in a lack luster game play experience. Edit: It made the game easier across the board.

TethorilofLathander

That depends. Are they making Baldur's Gate more accesible to people or Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition? I sincerely doubt most people would play the originals after the enhanced versions, therefore losing out on some of the original nostalgia. Many reviewers (and myself included as a gamer) agree that the only enhancement are the technical specifications, as the Bhaalspawn saga is still seen as one of the greats. Unfortunately that doesn't make it the most popular game around compared to something like Skyrim, but I've seen some of the people that play that and I wouldn't want to tarnish the Forgotten Realms with them.

GoldenEgg

Things were better in my day kids ...

TethorilofLathander

GoldenEgg said:

Things were better in my day kids ...

Believe this man, the egg came first *pushes aside Melicamp*

Chaotic_Good

Chaotic_Good said:

You can totally complain about the 1ee not being as good.. The enemy generation was completely botched there were a lot of good things they did, but that one is a real game changer. What it came out to new content excluded is a poorly done bgtutu. They added the mods and lowered the enemy generation resulting in a lack luster game play experience. Edit: It made the game easier across the board.

The change in the rolling system also made the game a lot easier.

Ayiekie

TethorilofLathander said:

Unfortunately that doesn't make it the most popular game around compared to something like Skyrim, but I've seen some of the people that play that and I wouldn't want to tarnish the Forgotten Realms with them.

What the heck is it with all you Baldur's Gate kiddies and taking potshots at Skyrim? Skyrim was a perfectly fine game that is a different flavour of RPG than BG, and was successful because it was good at its subgenre. If you didn't care for it, fine, but it doesn't make you superior as a person or a gamer to like Baldur's Gate more than Skyrim.

That's not just on you, Teth, this is like the fifth time I've seen people bring up commercial and critical success Skyrim for the sake of gratuitous potshots in the last few days.

Chaotic_Good

I understand where he is coming from Skyrim was dumbed down so much compared to earlier TES games it is hard to even consider it an rpg with the removal of many of its elements. If all of those 13 year olds came to play here it would bring all the poison that comes with unattended youth. Then you also have to think about what happens when that is the target demographic... you end up with games like Neverwinter not that it isn't fun, but I don't think the changes I brought up In my other post were intended to make the game baby mode.

Ayiekie

And Baldur's Gate is dumbed down and simplified compared to earlier RPGs too (go draw your own maps, you pampered babies!). And every single CRPG ever made is dumbed down and (usually) simplified compared to pen and paper RPGs. In fact, lots of people refuse to call games like Baldur's Gate an "RPG" for precisely that reason. They're silly. BG fans doing the same thing to Skyrim, or Final Fantasy, or whatever they don't like is silly.

And as for "If all of those 13 year olds came to play here it would bring all the poison that comes with unattended youth"... I almost choked on my lunch laughing at that line. That is both ridiculously pretentious and largely untrue, given Skyrim was a big success with numerous demographics.

Chaotic_Good

What is pretentious that I believe that ignorance, foolishness, and youth all go hand and hand. You might wan't to look up the definition of pretentious because my self image or projected self image has little to do with my observations.

I think you misunderstood what I mean by target demographic this might help.
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/38224/Skyrim_Tops_New_Measure_Of_Franchise_Engagement_Among_Gamers.php

Ayiekie

Because saying something like "the poison that comes with unattended youth" is a pretentious thing to say. Also an unhelpfully obtuse thing to say, since a) what exactly do you mean by "poison", and b) why are youth unattended because they play video games and/or post on a webforum?

Also, the article you mentioned has 18-34 years olds being the group with the most brand awareness of Skyrim. Under 18s, Modern Warfare 3 is the more famous brand name. It also showed that Skyrim has relatively low brand awareness amongst consumers (under 20% of gamers knew about it), but the highest intent to purchase from people that did know about it (over 50%), indicating both that RPGs are a niche market in video games and that Skyrim was broadly popular with people who played RPGs.

Chaotic_Good

There is always a element of labor when dealing with youth some more than others depending mostly on their manor and education. Most children on the internet are unattended even when their parents are in the same room there is no filter or ability to recognize foul behavior. Most MMO players have a grand understanding of these complications.

lmao since they already had interest from 18-34 year olds what age group would they most likely target to increase the fan base?

nano

Chaotic_Good said:

There is always a element of labor when dealing with youth some more than others depending mostly on their manor and education. Most children on the internet are unattended even when their parents are in the same room there is no filter or ability to recognize foul behavior. Most MMO players have a grand understanding of these complications.

You've gotta be kidding me...

Ayiekie

I'm guessing that English isn't your first language, so I'm sorry to say I still have no idea what you're on about with "a element of labor". Some kids are perfectly pleasant to be around, some aren't. Some teenagers are perfectly pleasant to be around, some aren't. Some adults are perfectly pleasant to be around, some aren't. Gold farmers have annoyed me more in MMOs than children ever have; YMMV.

As for the second part, we weren't talking about increasing the fanbase, just that apparently a fair number of people here bring up Skyrim as some sort of antithesis of role-playing games with the same sort of bizarre "We don't want their kind here" tone as Teth did in his post above, and I was wondering why. Whether you love Skyrim or hate it says nothing about you as a person; it doesn't even really say anything about you as a gamer.

Chaotic_Good

I'm shocked that you don't understand, but I can't spend any more time with this foolishness it is just to much labor.