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Uh, What? (Firkraag)

Is there some reason why no to-hit rolls seem to be made against Firkraag until after he goes hostile? Every time I attack him I don't get to even damage him until he's good and ready and already flinging spells.

Speaking of spells, why is everything he casts instant speed, exactly? Did he have that before?
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Comments

  • ThraxxThraxx Member Posts: 67
    he doesn't cast stuff instant, he casts spell. If you listen and look closely, you will see it. I havn't seen any change in him from the original to EE.
    He's a real bitch, without a Inquisitor to remove stoneskin and haste from him.
    Notabarbiegirl
  • OcculusXOcculusX Member Posts: 99
    There are a few tricks. A little preparation beforehand and you can cheese him to death.


    Put on your mage: Lower Resist, several Skull Traps

    Have your thief lay down snares and traps.

    Cast Lower Resist (this will make him angry).

    He will come after you; set off your traps, then he will kick the bucket.
    Notabarbiegirl
  • SpungiSpungi Member Posts: 216
    I kept dying to him, over and over. Tried using Lower Resistance, Dispell, Breach or W/E ... always ended up dying with someone. Then I said OH well, F' it!

    Tossed up 5 summons, threw out haste and some buffs and just rushed him... By the time he turned hostile he was almost dead. Not sure why it takes him so long to turn hostile, but the fight suddenly got very easy :P
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    My issue was that I tried a method another poster had success with in another thread, that is, buffing a single warrior wielding the Dragonslayer and 100%+ fire resistance, but when I force-attack Firkraag the game won't even roll a bloody attack roll until Firkraag is already Stoneskinned, hasted, and about to cast Remove Magic.

    And, no, @Thraxx, he definitely casts spells faster than normal. He most certainly has Improved Alacrity like a lich (why, I ask you, does anybody have that? It's a stupid, OP ability), and he gets off spells like Haste much more quickly than he should.
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 1,622
    Ah. That. Firkraag doesn't really "cast" spells; rather, he merely concentrates for a moment and innately uses them. In game terms, his script uses either ForceSpell or ReallyForceSpell so there isn't any casting time involved.

    Now...you didn't hear this from me but rumor has it that Firkraag's wisdom is only a 3 so if you were able to get hold of Kachiko's Wakizashi then haste/improved haste/whirlwind/greater whirlwind....well, it should be fun to say the least.
    NotabarbiegirlThacoBell
  • DurenasDurenas Member Posts: 458
    Spungi said:

    I kept dying to him, over and over. Tried using Lower Resistance, Dispell, Breach or W/E ... always ended up dying with someone. Then I said OH well, F' it!

    Tossed up 5 summons, threw out haste and some buffs and just rushed him... By the time he turned hostile he was almost dead. Not sure why it takes him so long to turn hostile, but the fight suddenly got very easy :P

    There is an exploit whereby if you initiate dialog, then abort before you can get close enough to talk to him, his AI will be in 'receive dialog' mode for several seconds. If you attack within this time, he cannot attack you back.

    I don't know if this is still possible within BG2:EE, but it was in the original BG2.
    enqenqsemiticgod
  • DurenasDurenas Member Posts: 458

    Ah. That. Firkraag doesn't really "cast" spells; rather, he merely concentrates for a moment and innately uses them. In game terms, his script uses either ForceSpell or ReallyForceSpell so there isn't any casting time involved.

    Now...you didn't hear this from me but rumor has it that Firkraag's wisdom is only a 3 so if you were able to get hold of Kachiko's Wakizashi then haste/improved haste/whirlwind/greater whirlwind....well, it should be fun to say the least.

    He does have a wisdom of 3, but his save vs death is 3. So you'd have to get pretty lucky to get 2 good hits within 2 rounds of each other, and if you're high enough level to use whirlwind, you're probably not going to have much trouble killing him the old fashioned way. Nice thought, though.
    lelag200semiticgod
  • KogornKogorn Member Posts: 95

    Is there some reason why no to-hit rolls seem to be made against Firkraag until after he goes hostile? Every time I attack him I don't get to even damage him until he's good and ready and already flinging spells.

    Speaking of spells, why is everything he casts instant speed, exactly? Did he have that before?

    @Amberion mentioned the "force talk" exploit that existed in the old version of BG2...my guess is that the absence of to-hit rolls you're experiencing was the "fix" for this exploit.
    Schneidend
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    @Kogorn
    That is a damn shame. I was kind of hoping to kill him early to maximize my time with my Red Dragon Plate + Dragon Helm + Ring of Fire Resistance + Harbinger greatsword combo. I wasn't even being particularly cheesy. Maxed out fire resistance, haste, go. In vanilla he'd probably be dead.
  • It seems like all of the dragons got a bit smarter and tougher since vanilla. Not 'Ascension smart', but they've learned to do things like go after that squishy thief standing in shortbow range, even though there are 3 summons beating on them in melee. I wound up going after Firkraag fairly late in CH2 (around level 11-12 for charname), and he was still a challenge.
  • SpiffyMcBangSpiffyMcBang Member Posts: 156

    @Kogorn
    That is a damn shame. I was kind of hoping to kill him early to maximize my time with my Red Dragon Plate + Dragon Helm + Ring of Fire Resistance + Harbinger greatsword combo. I wasn't even being particularly cheesy. Maxed out fire resistance, haste, go. In vanilla he'd probably be dead.

    If you have Spell Sequencer available, set one up with three magic missiles for any casters you have that can use it. Even if it's just one, that's a ton of damage combined with your fire resist/haste/break faces start. Start with two Lower Resistance casts (should have time to cast them from the same person, but it's even better if two people can hit him in the first round), then fire away. He'll bite it fairly quickly as long as your whole party is equipped well enough to deal some damage.
  • DurenasDurenas Member Posts: 458
    Bless/Chant/Haste/Protection from Evil 10' radius/Resist Fear/Draw Upon Holy Might for people who can use it well. Protection from Fire is also good.
  • AmardarialAmardarial Member Posts: 270
    Cyteen said:

    It seems like all of the dragons got a bit smarter and tougher since vanilla. Not 'Ascension smart', but they've learned to do things like go after that squishy thief standing in shortbow range, even though there are 3 summons beating on them in melee. I wound up going after Firkraag fairly late in CH2 (around level 11-12 for charname), and he was still a challenge.

    Yea, Im having a rough time with him, he starts with dispell followed by fire breath, usually wipes everyone out, casters have time for 1 spell tops before he is after them, even with 0 thac0 unbuffed I cant land any hits on him to save my life....dont remember him ever being this hard, even with mods
  • MungriMungri Member Posts: 1,645
    Triple spell sequencer lower resistance, second spell trigger lower resistance > greater malison > finger of death, plus a doom spell cast in between from a priest.

    Forget that, this one time I snuffed him with a chromatic orb. Too easy.

    Tbh I'm not even sure if that much lower resistance is even needed.
  • AmardarialAmardarial Member Posts: 270
    Mungri said:

    Triple spell sequencer lower resistance, second spell trigger lower resistance > greater malison > finger of death, plus a doom spell cast in between from a priest.

    Forget that, this one time I snuffed him with a chromatic orb. Too easy.

    Tbh I'm not even sure if that much lower resistance is even needed.

    on EE version? Cause what you just listed, not working so well anymore.
    Notabarbiegirl
  • MungriMungri Member Posts: 1,645
    Maybe not then, that was in the original.

    I'm too much more into BP2 with the EE.
  • AmardarialAmardarial Member Posts: 270
    Yea, EE seems to have fixed a few metagame tactics, some stuff just doesn't work anymore :( He used to always be easy, now he 1-2 shots my whole group in seconds...
  • ambrennanambrennan Member Posts: 173
    If you are happy to use fake talk you might just as well make your party invincible in Shadowkeeper.
    booinyoureyesWigginnsQuartzNecroscope86
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 1,622
    Firkraag's MR is 65, which most of us typically fix with Magic Resistance followed by Lower Resistance. I am uncertain if his dispel will remove those effects from him.

    It will be interesting to see how they might have improved his tactics. I look at his script a little last night but it was really late and I was half-asleep.
    Notabarbiegirl
  • SlandeSlande Member Posts: 23
    Lower Resistance definitely did leave a debuff in the original BG2, which would then lead me to believe it could be removed by dispel magic. I never did test this personally though so I cannot say for sure, but I would guess it could be removed. Does he use Dispel and not Remove Magic btw? (I haven't played much of the new EE yet so I don't know).
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 1,622
    The scripts lists it as wizard_dispel_magic *but* the mage version of Dispel Magic is marked as wizard_true_dispel_magic --> he is using Remove Magic so it won't remove any of his own effects. However, it won't dispel any effects you cast on him, either, so once you hit him with LR it will stick.

    On a tangential note....I wonder if coming up with some protection from projectile effect that targets spklargr.pro (157) would make you immune to Dispel Magic? *shrug* It is worth investigating, to be certain.
  • MungriMungri Member Posts: 1,645
    Spell Immunity: Abjuration would make your mages immune to dispel.
    lelag200semiticgod
  • KithrixxKithrixx Member Posts: 215
    I destroyed him with Haste, Improved Invisibility, Bless, and Chant. Hit him with Pierce Magic and Lower Resistance and pelt him with Magic Missiles while the Fighters wail on him. An important thing to remember is to spread out your party while fighting so they don't all get hit by a Wing Buffet if he decides to use one.
    Mathsorcererlelag200
  • AmardarialAmardarial Member Posts: 270
    Didn't work for me wing buffet hit everything in front and to the sides of him....which was like 70% of the room....also that breath weapon....80% FR and it still hit for 70+ and also covered the whole room :P
  • GSmith84GSmith84 Member Posts: 25
    I wasn't prepared for him in the least. Playing on Insane with SCS and it was as if my party walked in naked waving water noodles at him. (First dragon in this play through on that difficulty with that particular mod)
    booinyoureyeslaptopman666lelag200chilvence
  • TvrtkoSvrdlarTvrtkoSvrdlar Member Posts: 353
    GSmith84 said:

    I wasn't prepared for him in the least. Playing on Insane with SCS and it was as if my party walked in naked waving water noodles at him. (First dragon in this play through on that difficulty with that particular mod)

    Props to you for doing that, but I think insane difficulty is superfluous if you're running SCS with all the bells and whistles. What's the point of giving monsters illegal damage bonuses if they're already at the top of their game with the AI? :/
    Quartzlelag200
  • AmardarialAmardarial Member Posts: 270
    Funny thing, Liches die in like 3 secs to me, dragons destroy me still for some odd reason.....
  • TvrtkoSvrdlarTvrtkoSvrdlar Member Posts: 353

    Funny thing, Liches die in like 3 secs to me, dragons destroy me still for some odd reason.....

    Vanilla or SCS liches?

    If the latter, then I'd be interested in hearing what tactics you use to kill them so fast.
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 2,928
    I've killed firkraag with a level 9 cavalier and level 9 archer without using cheese, that dungeon provides all that is needed to fight that guy,
    the best longbow in the game, arrows of piercing/+2, items of fire resistance, the dragon slayer sword, minor spell sequencer for magic missiles
    if you really want to tear him up at low levels, archer, racial enemy; dragon, all skill in longbow, and use those arrows of piercing and then firkraag will peace out
    CrevsDaakbooinyoureyesWigginnsPhilhelm
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