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Uh, What? (Firkraag)

2

Comments

  • GSmith84GSmith84 Member Posts: 25

    GSmith84 said:

    I wasn't prepared for him in the least. Playing on Insane with SCS and it was as if my party walked in naked waving water noodles at him. (First dragon in this play through on that difficulty with that particular mod)

    Props to you for doing that, but I think insane difficulty is superfluous if you're running SCS with all the bells and whistles. What's the point of giving monsters illegal damage bonuses if they're already at the top of their game with the AI? :/
    I never played SCS to be honest. And BG2 original was too easy (I did play with ascension). So I always put it on Insane. After getting roflstomped by several things I'm looking at reducing it back to Core.
  • AmardarialAmardarial Member Posts: 270
    Hmm, never found a longbow down there, also Vanilla, though I'm sure same thing works with SCS as well, just Blackgaurd poison + horrid wilting...Poison bypasses protection spells...
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 2,928
    @Amardarial
    its hidden behind a secret wall guarded by 3 golems, its heartseeker longbow, with +4 to hit, and +2 to damage, and has an aim ability which gives another +7 to hit for 9 seconds, devasting
    booinyoureyes
  • Btw, I noticed that dragons cast Death Ward on themselves now...probably to obviate the Greater Malison->Finger of Death/Chromatic Orb cheesiness.
    jackjack
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190

    Honestly, I have no idea why you guys want to cheese dragons or kill them a low levels.

    Far be it for me to question personal preference, but if you're opting for cheese or want to cheat and get his items early, then you might as well console-kill him with CTRL+Y, because everything else you're doing pretty much amounts to the same (albeit protracted, and with some fancy mental gymnastics and generalizations auto-spammed on the self to soothe your cheaters' guilt! :D).

    Dragons are supposed to be powerful - their name is a part of the franchise itself. What's the fun of dropping a dragon like it was nothing more than a fancy, overgrown kobold? Again, if you want a quick kill, just frag him with CTRL+Y, since it's extremely illogical that a low-level party would be able to (fairly!) kill a mature dragon anyway.

    Personally, I enjoy cracking a tough wallnut like old Fire-face. He (and a couple of other 'boss' enemies) is the reason I min-max my CHARNAME, and pick up every item, loot every cupboard, obtain every spell and generally optimize the living f*** out of my party so that I can come back with thousands of gold worth of equipment and hack him to bloody bits!

    Those nigh-untouchable, powerful enemies were put there to challenge players and make them strive for power. There's nothing more fulfilling than finally getting the killing blow on a creature you know would've reduced your party to gibs had your items not been potent, your magics almost godlike, and your tactics flawless. I understand the desire to make a quick kill and move on, but you're robbing yourself of genuine fun by resorting to cheese when going up against something like a dragon.

    Personally, I play with SCS dragons buffed to 3x HP, and this makes them a real challenge. The general consensus is that the player will have 6 characters in their party, of which at least 3 will be some combination of spellcasters - this translates to a minimum of 3 spells per round (and much, much more if we factor in things like Time Stop, contingenices, triggers, sequences, etc.), so it's only fair the dragon gets a built-in and permanent Alacrity in return, as well as a slew of innate abilities.

    I think this is the way they were meant to be, as they *are* among the most formidable foes. It's such an epic feeling going toe-to-toe with something that actually represents a *threat*! The reason they were probably scaled down in the vanilla game is because Bioware didn't want to frustrate new players and keep them from obtaining their shiny Holy Avenger for their pet CHARNAME pala. Regardless, a dragon ought to be an end-game challenge, not something one merely steps over on their way to the treasure room.

    I know it's not for everyone, but 3x HP SCS dragons have a certain charm to them.

    And I now have a legitimate reason to hoard and save the party's potions! :P

    SCS changed the game for me, and made dragon-slaying *dangerous*!

    I now actually view them as credible, end-game threats.

    Seriously, try it! :)

    http://www.gibberlings3.net/scs/

    I don't want to cheese him, though. I buffed up and attacked him. My complaint was that FIRKRAAG is the one doing the cheesing. That's why I started this thread, because my longsword magically became slower when I rushed him, and he was casting spells unnaturally fast.
    semiticgodDJKajuru
  • KimhinKimhin Member Posts: 7
    Spam him with wand of cloudkill out of sight and when he has taken 100+ damage rush in with all you got at the samt time. Send magic missile, and arrows just to disrupt his healing spell and he will be a pretty easy kill.
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 1,624
    @Kimhin I wish that tactic would work but it won't any more. If he cannot see any PCs and he takes a sufficient amount of damage he will reset all his innate abilities *and* cast Heal on himself. Joy.
  • xcman04xcman04 Member Posts: 7
    @Mathsorcerer - do you know if the "out of sight cloudkill" tactic doesn't work for him only, or doesn't work with boss-type enemies across the board?
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 1,624
    It comes from dragred.bcs, so any dragon using that script should be immune to the out-of-sight kill tactic (which I, myself, have used in the past). I haven't checked the other dragon scripts but I would bet money that they got updated in a similar fashion.

    I just checked--all the really important ones have it.
    jackjacknanoNotabarbiegirl
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 5,441
    GSmith84 said:

    I wasn't prepared for him in the least. Playing on Insane with SCS and it was as if my party walked in naked waving water noodles at him. (First dragon in this play through on that difficulty with that particular mod)

    The water noodle comment made me laugh way too much for way too long and way too loudly (sorry neighbors) :D
    Quartz
  • jameskerjamesker Member Posts: 86
    Hes definatly tougher this time round, in vanilla rolled him at level 8, this play through took 4 tries at level 12 on enhanced he seems to be hitting hard taking less hits and he just gets haste back as quick as you dispel it
  • SkaffenSkaffen Member Posts: 709
    Hmmm... I just kicked his tail at level 14 ish without taking any serious damage. Just rushed him with 2 fire and 1 earth elementals, 2 skeleton warriors and a Minsc simulacrum. All hasted of course. Started the fight with a lower resistance and insect plague and he was toast before I had to do much else. I was actually disappointed and had expected more from what I read here.
  • KimhinKimhin Member Posts: 7
    @Mathsorcerer No you can not outright kill him but like I said use it to lower his HP. When he has taken around 100+ damage or so rush in and attack him with everything you got. Can you interrupt him when he casts heal on himself he will die pretty fast. I killed him with 3 magic missiles.
  • DrEastDrEast Member Posts: 113
  • bman86bman86 Member Posts: 115
    Skaffen said:

    Hmmm... I just kicked his tail at level 14 ish without taking any serious damage. Just rushed him with 2 fire and 1 earth elementals, 2 skeleton warriors and a Minsc simulacrum. All hasted of course. Started the fight with a lower resistance and insect plague and he was toast before I had to do much else. I was actually disappointed and had expected more from what I read here.

    lvl 14 is getting up there. I think OP and others are talking 9-11 type range
    Kimhin said:

    @Mathsorcerer No you can not outright kill him but like I said use it to lower his HP. When he has taken around 100+ damage or so rush in and attack him with everything you got. Can you interrupt him when he casts heal on himself he will die pretty fast. I killed him with 3 magic missiles.

    I did this, got him down to badly injured with out of sight cloudkill. If he hits near death, he fully heals himself again though. Took me a few goes, but this is how i took him down (was lvl 10 i think). Spread out around with summon support, and mm spam from Nalia and Neera once you finish getting him down to badly injured
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 1,624
    I suspect the standard sequencers loaded with magic missile will always work in conjunction with summons and hasting a giant-strengthed fighter. A situation like this would also be a good use of a Time Stop scroll, if you have one.
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 5,441
    edited November 2013
    sarevok57 said:

    @Amardarial

    its hidden behind a secret wall guarded by 3 golems, its heartseeker longbow, with +4 to hit, and +2 to damage, and has an aim ability which gives another +7 to hit for 9 seconds, devasting

    I NEVER knew that it had
    an aim ability which gives another +7 to hit for 9 seconds, devasting


    Thanks so much!
    sarevok57
  • emjayemjay Member Posts: 84
    I only discovered heartseeker today actually. It's got pretty cool stats, got valygar using it at present, but strikes me that the + to hit thing isn't actually that useful. The problem with most hard-to-kill enemies in this game is removing their spell protections or having appropriate magic ammunition to hit them, not THAC0
    Quartz
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    emjay said:

    I only discovered heartseeker today actually. It's got pretty cool stats, got valygar using it at present, but strikes me that the + to hit thing isn't actually that useful. The problem with most hard-to-kill enemies in this game is removing their spell protections or having appropriate magic ammunition to hit them, not THAC0

    THAC0 can be an issue with serious melee bosses like Dragomir. Breach and Ruby Ray of Reversal won't help you against that guy, but a couple hasted archers with Arrows of Biting might.
    Quartzsemiticgod
  • MrNoobyMrNooby Member Posts: 131
    Might want to check the date ;)
    typo_tillyOhmega
  • typo_tillytypo_tilly Member Posts: 4,881
    Oh I'm sure Schneidend will be happy to see his thread again. He lives for it! c:
    SchneidendJuliusBorisov
  • Shrake907Shrake907 Member Posts: 38
    I'm going to be that guy and post here as well, CHARNAME for me is a Swashbuckler, set traps at around level 12 has the poison component and they all stack. I casted Breach on him with Edwin, Malisoned, had Mazzy spam arrows of piercing and he went down although with quite a fight because of dragon haste.

    Love the dragon fights in BG!

    Carsomyr is stupid good on Keldorn with a STR belt.
    Notabarbiegirllolien
  • ThaxllssillyiaThaxllssillyia Member Posts: 7
    Just as an aside: I actually remember once killing Firkraag with a Chromatic Orb after Lowering his magic resist.
    typo_tilly
  • RedWizardRedWizard Member Posts: 225
    edited March 2016
    My favorite and easiest way of dealing with dragons in BG2EE:
    Send a tank to survive a just a few rounds of combat, not that hard with the heal from wands of ressurrection, the mirror image sword, pots of extra/superior healing, high AC and DoE.
    Have Dorn equipped with Firetooth, cast poison weapon, have a cleric and mage cast Champion's Strength & Improved Haste on him.
    Watch as the big old draggy melts away from poison in a matter of seconds :D
    Optional: Helm of Vhailor Simulacrum for even MORE poison
    lelag200
  • grisbosskgrisbossk Member Posts: 21
    szrlm said:

    You want cheese? Just keep casting flesh to stone until it passes MR and he fails the save. He doesn't become hostile until after the spell goes through, but he's a statue then. You get the xp for "defeating" him. Then use stone to flesh bringing back so he has 1hp and follow it with a magic missile. With 5 missiles 1 is bound to get through. Now you can loot him and you get the xp again. Double XP on a dragon using 3 spells. You can do this solo this with a level 12 mage in chapter 2.

    I just tried this cheese tactic with my 11-ish level group (with SCS better Dragon installed). After failed miserable for an hour to take him down with Cloudkill tactics/rush/summons/etc. Took me 15 mins of reload and finally got him. I screamed when it worked. Fun!! But Ima pass, reload and be back here when I reached high enough level (3mil +) for the sake of RP-ing.
  • CloutierCloutier Member Posts: 188
    The key is to send an arcane spellcaster (preferably fighter/mage or bard, but a pure mage will do) with all the possible buffs and spell immunity: abjuration, which will prevent his remove magic from working. The others should remain at a distance doing whatever is best, ranged attacks, spells, or summons.

    This will not work as well against a SCS dragon (they're smart enough to bring down your spell immunity first). Though it will still buy you some time while the dragon figures out you have a spell immunity active.
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