[Idea/Request] Vampire Player Character? [Mild Spoilers]

Alixen

Well, thanks to BGIIEE, we have not only a class for vampires, but even a means to walk under the sun.

As a massive vampire buff, a table-top player of many years, and so forth, I think it would be great to have the option to become a blood-sucker youself in the game. I have to admit, the lore of D&D has never particularly drawn me in, and I need extra hooks to string me along. I remember when I first heard about the character Bohdi, and party members being made into vampires, it was what inspired me to buy the original boxset years back... only to discover that it's played for a questhook.

I waited for years for a mod to come around that would have the option; the closest we came was Valen, people citing that it wasn't feasable.

Now, however, to coin a phrase: we have the technology. Or more aptly, we have the resources.

It could be handled in any number of ways. Perhaps aiding Dragomir, rather than being forced to fight him, and it leading up to becoming a vampire after a short questline, and a quest to make your own cloak, or not (since you could always simply be restricted to night-travel. Perhaps convincing Hexxat to turn the PC. Or even killing Hexxat, keeping the cloak, and then being the one turned by Bohdi.

I plead with anyone with the means and know-how. This has been something i've been hoping for, for so long.

Hell, even an option to simply choose Vampire as a starting race upon character creation would work from a roleplay perspective. Perhaps Bohdi was allowed/made to turn you, as a means of preservation and to amplify your physical attributes.

LiamEsler

Lore-wise, the PC would be unable to become a vampire; as soon as the PC dies, they become dust.

Alixen

A wizard did it. Since its not done in game, we don't know that the magic/curse wouldn't stop that from occuring. Either way, something that can be sidestepped in order for the idea to blossom easily enough. Defeatism is hardly productive. Lets focus on ways it could work, not why it shouldn't. :P

The mod would be an optional, fanmade, project that if you didn't agree with, no one is forcing you to play it at gunpoint. Just putting it out there before those who dislike vampires, and think everyone else should too, arrive.

Edvin

LiamEsler said:

Lore-wise, the PC would be unable to become a vampire; as soon as the PC dies, they become dust.

That is not entirely true, Yaga-shura is technically living zombie and he isnt dust.
The problem is in the soul because it contains the divine sparkand and vampires do not have souls.
( Vampirism is curse, not a disease )

So you CAN be vampire or bhaalspawn, but not BOTH.

Alixen

Edvin said:

That is not entirely true, Yaga-shura is technically living zombie and he isnt dust.
The problem is in the soul because it contains the divine sparkand and vampires do not have souls.
( Vampirism is curse, not a disease )

So you CAN be vampire or bhaalspawn, but not BOTH.

So, from a roleplaying point of view, you would eb locked out of Throne of Bhaal, if not mechanically? Because i have no problem no longer being Bhaalspwan (technically), as I was, and am not, a fan of special-snowflake-via-destiny cRPG characters. I prefer to start as nothing and build up to ruler of the human race.

Either way, my request still stands, because vampires.

Sylvus_Moonbow said:

This would be a great mod. I've always wanted to dive into a character similar to Bella and Edward, bringing their characters to life in Baldur's Gate!

I'm... not sure that will help the requests case. /straightfaced

Edvin

Sylvus_Moonbow said:

This would be a great mod. I've always wanted to dive into a character similar to Bella and Edward, bringing their characters to life in Baldur's Gate!

Oh, Bella and Edward in Baldurs gate ?
That would be a very rare characters, because it would have negative charisma values

Deltharis

@edvin

Irenicus steals our soul at one point, and we live, even get the Slayer form which implies our divine spark is something more than soul-bound. Not turning to dust upon death in that part of the story also would be somehow acceptable. And Bodhis soul-stealing experience tells us that we can get it back and remain a Vampire.

So there is enough precedent to allow it lore-wise in my opinion.

LiamEsler

It's implied in the game that one can survive without a soul and without a heart, with the correct magics in play, but all indications are that on actual "death" (required for undeath) a Bhaalspawn disintegrates.

On the more technical side of things, vampirism is an incredibly difficult thing to do. It's one thing to implement it for an NPC, and another entirely for the PC, who is required to be alive/not dead in the game at all times.

Joviwan

I did not realize that the disintegrating hand thing was anything more than "You suck, try again."

Eudaemonium

Its pretty clear that Sarevok disintegrates at the end of BG1, as does the poor sod in the intro sequence, but Sarevok himself is hard to miss.

Joviwan

...Okay, so he does.

I had to look up the movie because I hadn't seen it since BG1 came out; when I beat BG:EE last year movies weren't working, so I never got the refresh there.

The dude in the intro movie doesn't disintegrate, though

DarkSpiral

Neither does Imoen.

booinyoureyes

Vampire Boo

'Nuff Said

booinyoureyes

Eudaemonium said:

Its pretty clear that Sarevok disintegrates at the end of BG1, as does the poor sod in the intro sequence, but Sarevok himself is hard to miss.

I thought he bled all over a Bhaal symbol?

booinyoureyes

Edvin said:

Sylvus_Moonbow said:

This would be a great mod. I've always wanted to dive into a character similar to Bella and Edward, bringing their characters to life in Baldur's Gate!

Oh, Bella and Edward in Baldurs gate ?
That would be a very rare characters, because it would have negative charisma values

"Yes Boo, I agree. This group could do with a swift kick in the morals."

Alkalurops

DarkSpiral said:

Neither does Imoen.

Yeah, but she's wearing an anti-disintegrate belt.

Big_Murray

Alkalurops said:

DarkSpiral said:

Neither does Imoen.

Yeah, but she's wearing an anti-disintegrate belt.

Is that like Batman's belt?

darkoth23

there is a option to be turned into a vampire at the end of hexxats questline (see dialog tlk)

LiamEsler

@darkoth23 It was something we looked at, but it was not technically feasable in the end.

Alixen

Hm, how so? I opened up the Enchanted Editor, and it seems pretty easy to apply most of the buffs and debuffs that Hexxat faces. The sprite is, after all, just a pale human. But if you mean from a fluff perspective I can see how it would be problematic; hense why I'm hoping the option gets made as a mod, rather than an official plugin or option. I can also see how it could be a time limitation issue, as it has nothing to do with the main game.

I don't suppose you would be kind enough to go into more depth? It may help anyone with modding capability who wishes to attempt this with some hurdles. It would be very muc appreciated.

LiamEsler

If anyone wants to attempt this, I'd suggest trying to reverse-engineer Hexxat's death sequence and find a way to apply it to the PC. The problem is more with the actual implementation. You can give the player the bonuses, but you can't replicate the death effect in a neat way.

Aranneas

thematically this is a terrible idea regardless. in D&D freshly made vampires are created as thralls under the direct control of their master and only have a very minimal will of their own. you wouldn't be able to pursue any of your own goals or aspirations - it's debatable whether you could even have any at all. it wouldn't be your game, your story any longer until the one that turned you was killed. it'd potentially be interesting to examine, but it's much better fit for a different game, one not constrained by the tropes and necessities already present in the Bhaalspawn saga.

Alixen

Thank you for you opinion. It doesn't change the request however, as you yourself post the solution to the 'problem' in your own post, and there is nothing saying a little liberty couldn't be taken in the storytelling; it could perhaps eb that the blood of the Bhaalspawn overpowers the domination of the sire, to their suprise and annoyance.

This is a game where we have the ability to play halfling fighters who take on dragons, have teen romance companions that trivialise portions of the game, and plenty of 'whacky' mods out there. Nor has D&D ever been the most serious and consistant fantasy setting out there. So, again, thank you for your opinion, but I disagree. Done properly it could be dramatic and fairly interesting, in my own opinion.

Aranneas

Forgotten Realms is a fairly serious setting, all things considered. What you term 'a little liberty' I severely doubt I would be able to view as anything other than an an extremely cheap plot device, likely bordering on deus ex machina. Halfling fighters taking on dragons is as fittingly foolish as it is potentially heroic when handled correctly.

None of this is to say it'd be impossible to do, mind you. Just extremely hard to do well. Just because a mod can exist doesn't mean it's likely to be any good - as you came dangerously close to pointing out with your mention of teen romance companions Lots of things can be executed in dramatic fashion, but personally that doesn't mean I will automatically find them enjoyable.

But you're free to devote yourself to anything you choose if you feel there's enough potential gain for it =D who knows, maybe there's a huge potential audience for such a mod that I simply can't conceive of. Or maybe you'd strike on such a novel way to do it that even I couldn't complain

velehal

Just a question: Can vampires be healed by potions and healings spells? I don´t ask if it is possible in the game but what are "offical" AD&D rules. Eventually they are undead...

Alixen

Aranneas said:

-A well written post-

It has its serious moments, but then you have polymorph spells that turn people into poultry and rain cows upon them in dire vengence, just to name a few amusing moments from my last encounter with Elminster. :P In my eyes it very much does depend one execution, as you note. Could it be done badly? Sure. But it could also be handled well, with respect and gravity. Thats a problem that has been springing up a lot recently; vampires have been ill used in stories so often at this point, its becoming a foregone conclusion that they will be done badly.

My issue comes down to the fact that rather than pointing out the issues with the idea and then brainstorming on how to go about getting around them in a manner that feels right, most simply point out the issues as thought that right there is reason not to go ahead. That mindset right there is the death of creativity and challenging subjects.

I agree that the teen romance companions aren't my thing either, but the point is someone out there enjoyed them, and still uses them. It may be popular to hate Twilight, and as a vampire buff I don't like that series either, but there is a sizable fanbase for the fanged undead. This should be fairly clear to anyone who consumes any fiction; we have endless books, four active TV series that center on them on at the moment (that I can think of off the top of my head, and a fair few films. The audience is there. I would point out that one of the few new companions was decided to be a bloodsucker herself, and it was noted above this idea was a consideration had it not been for issues with applying the correct death animation, so there is that.

I raise the point that you may not be the audience for a mod that I propose? If you are, then wonderful, help hash things out. If not... what exactly is your objection, and the point of raising issues that can be worked around, to a group of people having a mod you never intend to download or use?

I'm happy to take an active hand in any project that springs up, i'm fighting hard enough to stop people burying it under a mound of negativity, i'm just more storybased. I am able to write, somewhat, and work with characters and dialog. What I am not is a coder, hence why I needed to make a request thread. I've dabbled with more accessable tools like Bethesda's creation engine and previous toolsets, but thats far and away from BG modding.

Edvin

Deltharis said:

@edvin

Irenicus steals our soul at one point, and we live, even get the Slayer form which implies our divine spark is something more than soul-bound. Not turning to dust upon death in that part of the story also would be somehow acceptable. And Bodhis soul-stealing experience tells us that we can get it back and remain a Vampire.

So there is enough precedent to allow it lore-wise in my opinion.

Sarevok line from hell:
"The mage, he stole most of your soul, but not all. Neither of you is truly alive, or truly dead."

Even for the most part stolen soul is still attached to the body of the original owner. If is original owner dead, it is indeed possible be revived and have soul ( as well as a revival of your love after her vampire transformation ), but not Bhaal power or divine sparkand. Look on Sarevok in ToB. He was dead now live again, but he cant restore his Bhaal power, because that power is already i Bhaal throne.

darkoth23

Most of the Dialog is already in the Dialog.tlk we just need a implementation for vampirism.

shawne

Eh, too many problems implementing it without breaking the game - it would effectively render Charname immortal, which removes any sense of risk or need for tactics.

That said, if you want a D&D game where you can play a vampire, try the evil ending of "Mysteries of Westgate" (module for NWN2). It's quite interesting the way that works out...

Dark_Ansem

any update on this?