I guess the other issue I see is that I'm going to be melee heavy against in BG2EE since I'll have Hexxat, Dorn, PC, Kagain and Edwin........so it's not wanting to get used to that much spellcasting.........but I also ain't gone to werewolf island yet....
Its a lot more fun. I mean, as a goody-two-shoes you can't kick those Flaming Fist Pansies, or the Wannabe Cowled Wizards, and their guard friends in the rear! >:D
Its a lot more fun. I mean, as a goody-two-shoes you can't kick those Flaming Fist Pansies, or the Wannabe Cowled Wizards, and their guard friends in the rear! >:D
Not to mention the random fireballs oh yes there will be much random fireballs
Its a lot more fun. I mean, as a goody-two-shoes you can't kick those Flaming Fist Pansies, or the Wannabe Cowled Wizards, and their guard friends in the rear! >:D
Not to mention the random fireballs oh yes there will be much random fireballs
add a sly voice: Hey I'm a wild mage, this is not an error, it's a feature! Didn't you notice that more people die by the cold then by any arcane means? Just got a tiny bit bigger then I thought, but that corpse over there sure as hell won't complain about the cold weather anymore, will he?
Most if not all of the best benefits from the trials at the end of SoA go to the 'Evil' Charname.
Really?
Pride: Good reward= 20% resistance to fire/cold/electricity Evil reward= Gain 200k exp, a robe of the Evil Archmagi, a few level 9 scrolls.
Good wins, since minor resistances to common elements beats experience and gear found elsewhere.
Fear: Good = Immunity to +1 weapons and less Evil = +2 to CON and a cloak of Nymph skin.
Since Protection from Magical Weapons stacks with that, Good wins, because immunity to all physical attacks is vastly better than Con, unless you're a midget, and probably even then.
Selfishness: Good = +10% to magic resistance, -2 HP, -1 Dexterity. Evil = +2 to ac
AC is largely worthless in Throne of Bhaal, whilst MR is all important. Good wins, even with the stat loss.
Greed: Good = +2 to saves Evil = +15 hps, plus Blackrazor
HP is largely irrelevant in the long term, but Save or Dies are forever. Blackrazor's nice, but frankly there are better swords out there.
Wrath: Good = +1 to WIS and CHA Evil = +2 to STR (1 of which is, if I recall, added on top of all other gear). +1 Primary stat.
Strength is actually useful, as, usually, is your primary stat, so Evil finally wins, unless you're a Mage or Cleric, in which case Wisdom is still useful.
If you want to argue that "Evil" lets you pick whatever, hence getting the best of all five, then fine (though the hell trials assigning a very arbitrary alignment change for anything but the holiest of participants is just ugh), but the "Good" response for the hell trials is no slouch for getting rewards.
@Pantalion - I was being largely facetious on the topic, but thanks for this break down. I'd say that "Situationally" it could go either way. A high DEX/CON evil Fighter/Thief might gain a lot more from the Evil path than from the good, as for example. But again, situationally.
My only problem with playing an evil character is the game's messed up reputation system. It seems like it forces you to be psychotic evil if you want to keep evil party members happy. I mean, seriously Korgan? You're going to leave the group because my reputation went up after doing that Trademeet quest that we were *hired* to do?
I love the idea of role-playing a practical, selfish evil character, but it's difficult to do without cheating to keep your reputation down. It's unfortunate they couldn't overhaul (see what I did there?) the reputation system for the Enhanced Editions. Darn contractual limitations.
@nietzschelives - my current run through in BG1 is with an all evil party and I seem to have no problem keeping my rep in the 4-6 range. Viconia -2. Baeloth - 2. Dorn - 2. Flood the mines - 2. Killing the Dryad -2. Blind attacked by random Paladin in the woods - 2. Siding with Silke - 2. So you see, not really anything majorly on the 'Stupid Evil' side and plenty of bad rep.
But I do take the point about the rep system. I am keeping my rep above 4 because I don't want to be randomly attacked by Flaming fists everywhere I go. So when I give money to the church, I know it will be followed by a wave of negative reactions from the group. "Guys, keeping under the radar just at the moment has it's benefits too. We already can't go into Nashkal anymore." (there are two flaming fist that went hostile and we ran from. Now they keep vigilant watch all of the time).
@the_spyder - I guess I was more referring to BG2. BG1 does have a greater number of (practical/plausible) opportunities to lower rep, but BG2 seems to have a definite lack. Still doesn't keep me from playing as an evil char occasionally, I just end up using Shadowkeeper (or BEEkeeper) to keep my rep down.
That being said, there are a TON of great dialogue options for evil characters, and the evil NPCs are a lot of fun. Considering the state of RPGs at the time (not a lot where being evil was being an option), it's pretty impressive.
I still prefer to roleplay NG or LG characters though, usually using the limitations mentioned above in this thread (which DON'T detract from the game.)
@Eudaemonium - You have a point there. There are some good RP opportunities for evil characters, but it just doesn't seem like there are enough to counteract the rep bonuses from all of the practical quests available (by practical, I mean that someone approaches CHARNAME and offers payment for them.)
@nietzschelives: In my latest play through of BG2 I more or less did every quest (taking evil route when applicable: e.g. Grove and Adalon), and I don;t think my rep actually raised higher than about 13-14. Granted, some of this was Dorn's personal quests, which often dropped me to 3-5 Rep. But in general I think one can actually avoid high rep relatively easily now. Outside Dorn's 2 quests i didn't kill any innocents or guards (I avoided guards when they spawned and snuck into temples to raise my rep again).
@nietzschelives - LOL. Fair enough. I usually play some more neutral-ish type party so I can feel comfortable being nice when it warrants it and I can still be selfish if I feel the need.
The rep system really needs an overhaul, if that were possible. There have been a number of suggested really solid systems that I've seen. Too bad Beamdog can't make changes to it. Maybe BG3? Would be nice to dream.
@Eudaemonium - I haven't used Dorn yet (still playing through with a NG character.) That sounds awesome though. I guess that answers my question for whether to take Dorn or Korgan along for my evil BG2EE playthrough. I'm glad they added some rep lowering quests.
@nietzschelives - I can only speak from BG1 perspective, but Dorn is impressive. He lunches heavily on crits and does a boatload of damage all around. And his starting gear (in BG1) will take him most of the way, or at least Rancor will. I imagine in BG2 he really comes alive with his immunity to level drain and his continued growth in power. Well worth it I imagine.
I don't mind there being more +rep than -rep. I think it's actually good for evil parties because it gives you the leeway to whack a guy or two and cover it up with "charity work" or bribes "donations".
The only change I would make is to give more innocent NPCs good items. Make them hard to pickpocket so if you want the items you have to kill them. I don't like evil quests. Evil is self-serving. We don't earn what we want, we take it.
Oh, and you should be able to avoid or reduce reputation loss by killing all witnesses.
Comments
Unfortunately that doesn't quite work when I'm in chapter 5.
@Rajick
I guess the other issue I see is that I'm going to be melee heavy against in BG2EE since I'll have Hexxat, Dorn, PC, Kagain and Edwin........so it's not wanting to get used to that much spellcasting.........but I also ain't gone to werewolf island yet....
Its a lot more fun. I mean, as a goody-two-shoes you can't kick those Flaming Fist Pansies, or the Wannabe Cowled Wizards, and their guard friends in the rear! >:D
Hey I'm a wild mage, this is not an error, it's a feature! Didn't you notice that more people die by the cold then by any arcane means? Just got a tiny bit bigger then I thought, but that corpse over there sure as hell won't complain about the cold weather anymore, will he?
I love the idea of role-playing a practical, selfish evil character, but it's difficult to do without cheating to keep your reputation down. It's unfortunate they couldn't overhaul (see what I did there?) the reputation system for the Enhanced Editions. Darn contractual limitations.
But I do take the point about the rep system. I am keeping my rep above 4 because I don't want to be randomly attacked by Flaming fists everywhere I go. So when I give money to the church, I know it will be followed by a wave of negative reactions from the group. "Guys, keeping under the radar just at the moment has it's benefits too. We already can't go into Nashkal anymore." (there are two flaming fist that went hostile and we ran from. Now they keep vigilant watch all of the time).
That being said, there are a TON of great dialogue options for evil characters, and the evil NPCs are a lot of fun. Considering the state of RPGs at the time (not a lot where being evil was being an option), it's pretty impressive.
I still prefer to roleplay NG or LG characters though, usually using the limitations mentioned above in this thread (which DON'T detract from the game.)
@Eudaemonium - You have a point there. There are some good RP opportunities for evil characters, but it just doesn't seem like there are enough to counteract the rep bonuses from all of the practical quests available (by practical, I mean that someone approaches CHARNAME and offers payment for them.)
The rep system really needs an overhaul, if that were possible. There have been a number of suggested really solid systems that I've seen. Too bad Beamdog can't make changes to it. Maybe BG3? Would be nice to dream.
"Kill them all and have done with it."
The only change I would make is to give more innocent NPCs good items. Make them hard to pickpocket so if you want the items you have to kill them. I don't like evil quests. Evil is self-serving. We don't earn what we want, we take it.
Oh, and you should be able to avoid or reduce reputation loss by killing all witnesses.