But fantasy was introduced by Mr. J. R. R. Tolkien. Originally it's based on the European ethnic background and tradition, Celtic one for instance.
Fortunately "katanas" and other "kara-tur-yoshimo-tamoko-bullshit_barehand_fighting_monks" stuff is inappropriate and was brought only with aim of fantasy popularization all around the world.
BG1 was free of all this "stuff" and it was pleasure to have it unpolluted.
But fantasy was introduced by Mr. J. R. R. Tolkien. Originally it's based on the European ethnic background and tradition, Celtic one for instance.
Fortunately "katanas" and other "kara-tur-yoshimo-tamoko-bullshit_barehand_fighting_monks" stuff is inappropriate and was brought only with aim of fantasy popularization all around the world.
BG1 was free of all this "stuff" and it was pleasure to have it unpolluted.
What are you talking about? There were plenty of non-European elements in the Lord of the Rings. To the east you have the land of Rhûn where the easterling army came from, this area is clearly based off of Asia. To the south you had Harad where the Mûmakil (elephants) came from, this area was clearly based on africa and the middle east.
Non-european elements were also present in BG1. The scimitar for example is an Arabic sword and Minsc comes from Rashemen, an area with some distinctly near Asian cultural features (think the Caucasus).
Then there is the Forgotten Realms setting itself. It's creator Ed Greenwood said outright that he never cared much for Tolkien, his inspiration for the Forgotten Realms came more from Robert E. Howard (Conan) and others.
I'm really sorry if I have broken your world outlook by bringing some light. Enlightenment is too complex for some of us. Anyway, I love you all!
Enlightenment? You're debating the presence of non-European elements in a game that already has non-European elements. Again, Tamoko already exists in the game. As Sceptenar pointed out, there are scimitars already in the game.
> Tamoko already exists in the game how do you know her orign is smth. like Yoshimo's? does her name points on her orign? I was talking about ninjas, monks and the rest of "kara-tur".
> there are scimitars already in the game scimitar comes from Middle East, not from Asia. European culture is strongly connected with Middle East and the whole Mediterranean from ancient Greece, Rome and so on. I was talking about particular asian weapon - katana.
.. and one more - I give up and suggest us to stop. you win, Schneidend! congrats
I'm pretty sure that the Middle East is a part of the continent of Asia. Also as stated, the game "isn't" just Europe influenced. While it's primarily based off that because the target audience knows that the best they also bring in the whole Indo-European parts with Minsc and Dynahier.
My "beef" with the asian-themed weapons was always that they were more than a bit more powerful than any other weapon. A katana, for instance, dealt 1d10 damage with a speed factor of 4, making it almost as fast as a short sword while dealing more damage than a long sword. The others are similar.
I'm all for asian-themed weapons, but part of me thinks that Katanas should be part of the Long Sword or Bastard Sword proficiency class. Then any discrepancy of power can be accounted for in pricing.
how do you know her orign is smth. like Yoshimo's? does her name points on her orign? I was talking about ninjas, monks and the rest of "kara-tur".
Her origin is like Yoshimo's because it is. She's from Kara-Tur. Sarevok goes to Kara-Tur to have a funeral ceremony for her in his ToB epilogue. And, if you have a problem with ninja, monks, samurai, and other Asian-themed things, you have a problem with Tamoko. She's basically a samurai/ronin. If there had been katana in BG1 originally, they probably would have given her one.
OP, BG is set in the Forgetten Realms fantasy setting, created by Ed Greenwood, which is an entire earth sized planet that includes lands based on Medieval far east Asia. There is voluminous source material for the lore of FR. In fact, it's probably one of the most developed fantasy settings you could hope to ever find. Google Kara-Tur.
I agree that katana's would be exotic in the world of BG1 and should be rare. This is, in fact, the case in BG2. That's part of their disadvantage as they are a superior one-handed weapon otherwise. But they could + should be in BG1, IMO.
Yes, a katana doesn't perfectly suit the game world. But I wouldn't call it "pollution." Fantasy has really broadened in scope since the Tolkein days. Take the world of Game of Thrones, for example. This world portrays multiple cultures, weapons, fighting styles, architecture and attitudes simultaneously. And yet the world is unified, captivating and believable enough that even non-fantasy fans like it.
> Tamoko already exists in the game how do you know her orign is smth. like Yoshimo's? does her name points on her orign? I was talking about ninjas, monks and the rest of "kara-tur".
Sarevok's epilogue says she is from Kara-Tur. He travels there to bury her. And the canon novelization of the game states that she is specifically from the nation of Kozakura, which is in the continent of Kara-Tur. Which is also the nation Yoshimo says he comes from. Kozakura is based on Japan, which is where katanas are from.
> there are scimitars already in the game scimitar comes from Middle East, not from Asia. European culture is strongly connected with Middle East and the whole Mediterranean from ancient Greece, Rome and so on. I was talking about particular asian weapon - katana.
The middle-east IS in Asia. As for real-world culture, there was a real world trade route called The Silk Road, which travelled from east Asia through India and the middle east into Europe, bringing trade goods like silk and spices to a place that didn't have them. It's hardly much of a leap of logic to think that the same wouldn't be the case for Faerun and Kara-Tur, so having eastern weapons isn't really all that strange.
The OP brings up a good point. BGEE will be bringing in all classes and kits from BG2, correct? If so, won't some of them be underbalanced if there is not a sufficient amount of weapons, armor, etc for them to find in the game world?
Is Overhaul going to be adding sufficient items to make these new classes, kits and weapon proficiencies worthwhile?
We do know that more clubs are being added, so I imagine that maybe a katana or two could slip in there. I would certainly hope so, anyway, considering it's a proficiency you can pick from the start. :P
Katanas - yes, but IMHO in the town of Baldur's Gate only or loot/gift. I wouldn't like it to be everywhere like in BG2. Katanas were supposed to be special, rare piece of art weaponry, not something you'll get at the nearby village market. They should not be susceptible to iron corruption, but also there should be very few in the game, so that when we get one, it should feel unique.
Also lack of katanas won't mean underbalance because each class that can use them can also use other weapons. Apart from that shaolin monks did not fight with katanas.
The fact is none of you know anything about 12th century Europe. You all decided to jump on his ass, he did nothing. Do not try to justify your rudeness by saying he's insulting you. Then again, he did not respond to your self justified taunting very humbly did he?
The issue is you discredit his claim that katanas are not accurate to the sword coast by saying that there are asian things in BG. So?
The multicultural elements in BG are glued on with melted plastic, but I won't deny it. Let there be Katanas, but don't say it's accurate.
The presence of katanas was almost non existant in medieval Britain. Throughout this time spices and herbs were brought in from exotic lands, especially Middle Eastern countries. In fact, chess was brought back from the Crusades at one point.
The Crusades opened up Britain to things they never had before, they even traded along the Silk Road. In France the Vikings were given a land to the north which they called Normandy and in 1066, after being promised the english throne and betrayed by Harold II, William, Duke of Normandy invaded and claimed it for his land.
So modern Englishmen are French, Scandinavian, Roman (which encompassed territory all over Europe) and more. The Middle Ages were a time of diversity, but that does not mean they used scimitars. The use of any Middle Eastern or asian weapons would be dearly noted at many of the arms communities I join.
Despite this trade, Katanas were not featured weapons and so our Sword Coast shops to sell Katanas would be inappropiate at the least. Any use of katanas in Britain would be leftover from traders and sold.
jones0901
Member Posts: 51
Comments
I think he is a noob, go easy on him. That or he just doesn't understand the D&D verse. :x
@Lemernis
@Synergetic
Beg me pardon guys, if you're from Asia yourself
But fantasy was introduced by Mr. J. R. R. Tolkien. Originally it's based on the European ethnic background and tradition, Celtic one for instance.
Fortunately "katanas" and other "kara-tur-yoshimo-tamoko-bullshit_barehand_fighting_monks" stuff is inappropriate and was brought only with aim of fantasy popularization all around the world.
BG1 was free of all this "stuff" and it was pleasure to have it unpolluted.
Your agressively hostile oppinion is noted, and an attempt to respect it is in progress.
But their will be Katanas and Monks in BGEE, im sorry your pleasure will be ruined.
BG1 wasn't "free" of Asian stuff. Tamoko is the final mid-boss before you fight Sarevok.
@Schneidend
Oh! No! You've just offended me! You hit me into my heart!
Hold on, guys, just relax
I did not intend to offend any of you. My position is strictly defensive after:
> I think he is a noob...
I'm really sorry if I have broken your world outlook by bringing some light. Enlightenment is too complex for some of us. Anyway, I love you all!
To the south you had Harad where the Mûmakil (elephants) came from, this area was clearly based on africa and the middle east.
Non-european elements were also present in BG1. The scimitar for example is an Arabic sword and Minsc comes from Rashemen, an area with some distinctly near Asian cultural features (think the Caucasus).
Then there is the Forgotten Realms setting itself. It's creator Ed Greenwood said outright that he never cared much for Tolkien, his inspiration for the Forgotten Realms came more from Robert E. Howard (Conan) and others.
> Tamoko already exists in the game
how do you know her orign is smth. like Yoshimo's? does her name points on her orign? I was talking about ninjas, monks and the rest of "kara-tur".
> there are scimitars already in the game
scimitar comes from Middle East, not from Asia. European culture is strongly connected with Middle East and the whole Mediterranean from ancient Greece, Rome and so on. I was talking about particular asian weapon - katana.
.. and one more - I give up and suggest us to stop.
you win, Schneidend! congrats
Also as stated, the game "isn't" just Europe influenced. While it's primarily based off that because the target audience knows that the best they also bring in the whole Indo-European parts with Minsc and Dynahier.
Not to mention the new worlds that are found.
I'm all for asian-themed weapons, but part of me thinks that Katanas should be part of the Long Sword or Bastard Sword proficiency class. Then any discrepancy of power can be accounted for in pricing.
Yes, a katana doesn't perfectly suit the game world. But I wouldn't call it "pollution." Fantasy has really broadened in scope since the Tolkein days. Take the world of Game of Thrones, for example. This world portrays multiple cultures, weapons, fighting styles, architecture and attitudes simultaneously. And yet the world is unified, captivating and believable enough that even non-fantasy fans like it.
If he hates Asian themed weaponry so much and believes all fantasy ideas were copied from Tolkien...
I would hate to see when he learns of this...
<img src="http://lparchive.org/Baldurs-Gate-2-and-Throne-of-Bhaal/Update 60/15-BG2ToBch8012.jpg"
Does this offend you as well? ;D
Is Overhaul going to be adding sufficient items to make these new classes, kits and weapon proficiencies worthwhile?
And there will be katanas.
Also lack of katanas won't mean underbalance because each class that can use them can also use other weapons. Apart from that shaolin monks did not fight with katanas.
The issue is you discredit his claim that katanas are not accurate to the sword coast by saying that there are asian things in BG. So?
The multicultural elements in BG are glued on with melted plastic, but I won't deny it. Let there be Katanas, but don't say it's accurate.
The presence of katanas was almost non existant in medieval Britain. Throughout this time spices and herbs were brought in from exotic lands, especially Middle Eastern countries. In fact, chess was brought back from the Crusades at one point.
The Crusades opened up Britain to things they never had before, they even traded along the Silk Road. In France the Vikings were given a land to the north which they called Normandy and in 1066, after being promised the english throne and betrayed by Harold II, William, Duke of Normandy invaded and claimed it for his land.
So modern Englishmen are French, Scandinavian, Roman (which encompassed territory all over Europe) and more. The Middle Ages were a time of diversity, but that does not mean they used scimitars. The use of any Middle Eastern or asian weapons would be dearly noted at many of the arms communities I join.
Despite this trade, Katanas were not featured weapons and so our Sword Coast shops to sell Katanas would be inappropiate at the least. Any use of katanas in Britain would be leftover from traders and sold.