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Inconsistent Quayle?

It seems like Quayle's transition from BG1 to BG2 doesn't make a lot of sense. In BG1, he's obnoxious and doesn't seem to be raising any Elven lasses. In the short time that follows into BG2, he seems way older and kindly, and appears to have been raising Aerie for a very long time. Seems off.
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  • CherudekCherudek Member Posts: 73
    It actually took me a long time to even realize they were the same character...
  • CoutelierCoutelier Member Posts: 1,282
    It's been noted many times, and no official explanation ever given as far as I know. But clearly not enough time passes between BG1 and BG2 for him to have matured and for all that to have happened with Aerie. Of course, it's never really confirmed that it is the same Quayle, although definitely hinted at with the use of his portrait, although in dialogue it's just a vague familiarity.

    He met the Sigil Troupe at some point as well, so the best explanation I can up with is some weird magic experiment of his in the future sent him out across the planes and he somehow managed to return to Faerun before meeting you and decided to lay low in the circus so as not to interfere with history. But then he knows Jan as well... ahh, I don't know...
  • YemethYemeth Member Posts: 36
    Quayle got a second chance somehow and he decided not to be such a prick...good enough for me:)
  • GamingFreakGamingFreak Member Posts: 639
    Meh, a lot of characters acted differently in the second game. Safana went off her rocker, Faldorn seemed more evil than balanced out and what-not, Garrick became an even bigger loser (I didn't think that was possible, guess failing to woo Skie does that to you), Tiax... well Tiax didn't change, Adjantis didn't change but his inclusion is almost secretive, Viconia became more bitter and rude, Imoen spent half the game being less cheerful, Minsc got even more addle-minded... pretty much everyone else was either the same or just plain not included.
  • marcerormarceror Member Posts: 577
    Acting differently isn't necessarily a problem at all. But aging ~20 - 30 years and adding what seems to be a very long history with an adopted daughter of sorts is a lot more problematic. Really, the best approach mentioned seems to be treating Quayle in BG2 as someone completely separate from Quayle in BG1.
  • GamingFreakGamingFreak Member Posts: 639

    Imoen spent half the game being less cheerful

    I hear being tortured, mind raped, and having your soul taken from you by a vampire might get you a little down sometimes.
    I hear spoilers are nice to be covered too ;)
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,164
    I think *cononically* (if that is a word) Quayle only stayed with the party for a couple days. Remember he was "lost" on his trip when he meets you in BG1? Perhaps he was looking for something or on a mission to recruit for his circus. Maybe he met Kalah in BG after leaving the party?

    Or perhaps Quayle traveled back in time to help charname on his journey to make sure Aerie met a nice boy she can take home to have dinner with her uncle?
  • SharGuidesMyHandSharGuidesMyHand Member Posts: 2,582
    Coutelier said:

    It's been noted many times, and no official explanation ever given as far as I know.

    After you save Quayle and he says goodbye to Aerie, he says something like, "I've changed too," so the implication was always that raising Aerie made him a more mature and compassionate person.

    As far as not enough time passing between the two games for such a transition to realistically happen... well, count it among all the other plot holes opened up by the BG sequel(s).
  • MillardkillmooreMillardkillmoore Member Posts: 150
    Just pretend he's a different guy with the same name. Nothing else makes sense.
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,212
    Quayle in BG2 was made who he is in a nod to the original game, without any deeper thoughts. A little cameo, like Tiax, or Garrick, or some others. Don't think too much into it, the writers obviously didn't.
  • marcerormarceror Member Posts: 577

    Quayle in BG2 was made who he is in a nod to the original game, without any deeper thoughts. A little cameo, like Tiax, or Garrick, or some others. Don't think too much into it, the writers obviously didn't.

    But I would argue they certainly should have.
  • CoutelierCoutelier Member Posts: 1,282
    marceror said:

    Quayle in BG2 was made who he is in a nod to the original game, without any deeper thoughts. A little cameo, like Tiax, or Garrick, or some others. Don't think too much into it, the writers obviously didn't.

    But I would argue they certainly should have.
    They should have. But now we're left with either it not being the same Quayle (maybe a relative), or time traveling doppelganger.

    It's not the only inconsistency though. Other characters have changed a bit as well, although it's a little less glaring and more easily explainable. Then there's the solar, who tells a different story about your birth in ToB to the one Gorion tells you through his letters in BG1.
  • KaltzorKaltzor Member Posts: 1,050
    I remember this being discussed before, and one theory was that Quayle had been with the circus group before the events of BG1 and after Sarevok was beaten went back there (if you take him with you)...

    So the Quayle you meet in BG2 would be more or less what he's like when he's not on an adventure
  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,853
    The only thing that's off is that the time frame is ... ridiculous. Other than that, it makes sense. He mentions that he has grown and matured, so.
  • SilverstarSilverstar Member Posts: 2,207
    edited December 2013
    He could quite simply be insane and suffer from multiple personality disorder. The sheer stupidity he displays in his excessive arrogance towards heavily armed travelers he meets while equipped with a... sling was it?... might suggest that not all the lights are on upstairs.
  • lunarlunar Member Posts: 3,460
    It seems the canon game assumes that Quayle was never accepted into pc's party, and thus spent his time travelling with the circus while the pc was busy doing quests in Baldur's Gate city and then the expansion areas-Balduran Isle, Durlag's Tower etc. and then there is some time between BG1's end and BG2's beginning. So I think there was enough time for Quayle to meet a cricus group, travel with them, and adopt Aerie and change his personality.
  • SilverstarSilverstar Member Posts: 2,207
    lunar said:

    It seems the canon game assumes that Quayle was never accepted into pc's party

    Considering he's a total douche, it's an incredibly reasonable assumption :P At the very least he probably wouldn't get to stay long.
  • NaveenNaveen Member Posts: 81
    @lunar There is no "Hey, Quayle, weren't you dead? Yeah, I remember, Tiax laughed a lot (and me too)" or "Don't you recognize me?", so you are probably right.

    I don't find his change of personality so odd. Aerie was like his daughter and he saw her caged, wither and then hacked without anesthesia (or the other way around, he saw all that, his sense of compassion reappeared and she became his daughter). As an explanation for a traumatic and sudden turn of personality, that's the best and most plausible of all. What's odd is that Aerie talks about him like they have been together a lot of time. And that she stays at the same circus (it's the same right?) and has good memories of the place*. And that she doesn't use a regeneration or wish spell for her wings, although charname uses the last one like popcorn. And her super-fast-only-after-one-night pregnancy. And many other things. But Quayle change of heart? Nah.

    *"Good morning, fellow circus worker! Remember that day you laughed at me while I was dying in a cage? Haha, good times, good times!"
  • CoutelierCoutelier Member Posts: 1,282
    edited December 2013
    She has good memories of Quayle I think, not so much of the circus. That's probably why she wants to leave, but she's stayed because he's like an adopted father to her, and she hasn't been able to tell him (and she has no place to go anyway). She's just too wise a wish spell; djinn are notorious for hating those.
    Post edited by Coutelier on
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    edited December 2013
    Well he is an illusionist. Maybe his younger age (and general mannerisms) were merely an illusion in BG1 :D
  • marcerormarceror Member Posts: 577
    I think perhaps Quayle in BG1 was an illusion altogether.
  • CalmarCalmar Member Posts: 688
    Aerie is spoiled and immature. I suppose Quayle actually only raised her for a couple of days, maybe a week or two, before Charname shows up to take her adventuring.
  • marcerormarceror Member Posts: 577
    And I suppose that they appear to have a lot more history than that.
  • CoutelierCoutelier Member Posts: 1,282
    edited December 2013
    Calmar said:

    Aerie is spoiled and immature. I suppose Quayle actually only raised her for a couple of days, maybe a week or two, before Charname shows up to take her adventuring.

    Yes; shutting someone in a cage and neglecting them for a long time, then having them help out doing jobs and chores in an environment where everyone is constantly hurrying to get their next show ready is how you spoil someone.
  • GemHoundGemHound Member Posts: 801
    edited December 2013
    Well, MONTHS could have went past between killing Sarevok and the escape from Irenicus' Dungeon.

    Remember, BG1 is supposed to take a player about 9 weeks. Throne of Bhaal is one and a half years(or so) after BG1(with about half a year between SoA and ToB) causing the time span between BG1 and SoA to be anywhere from 7 to 10 months. Quayle could have very much so managed to pick up Aerie as a foster-child during that time. The thing that can not be explained though is the 100% change of personality, and the older version of Quayle.
  • SilverstarSilverstar Member Posts: 2,207
    GemHound said:

    causing the time span between BG1 and SoA to be anywhere from 7 to 10 months.

    Going by the date in the journal entries, Irenicus' dungeon starts exactly one year after you stand outside Winthrop's inn with a stick in your hands.

    I doubt the writers gave the time between the games much thought. And how could they? Depending on how you play the game's end date will vary vastly from the next guy. The year in the journal entries probably just got stamped there before moving on to other things as they figured most people are probably done within a year at least. I don't feel it matters much though. Unless you killed them off/let them die the most glaring plot inconsistencies is Khalid/Jaheira travelling with you at the time of capture and Dynaheir being alive at all.
  • CalmarCalmar Member Posts: 688
    Coutelier said:

    Calmar said:

    Aerie is spoiled and immature. I suppose Quayle actually only raised her for a couple of days, maybe a week or two, before Charname shows up to take her adventuring.

    Yes; shutting someone in a cage and neglecting them for a long time, then having them help out doing jobs and chores in an environment where everyone is constantly hurrying to get their next show ready is how you spoil someone.
    At one point I had her ragequit my party because I didn't submit to her constant desire for attention every time. :P
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