Ouch... harsh... but kind of accurate in its own regard. I really have to agree with you most on the NWN2 toolset crashes... that was so freaking annoying. I usually only used the toolset to be a cheaty face, and give myself interesting loot or something, but I do have some experience with using both, and I can easily agree that NWN 1 had it right. I find this happens a lot with the more modern games, mainly because so much has been added, and yet the controls are made to be so much harder to work with.
NWN1 deserves points for being what it is; one of the first 'big' titles that gave a giant toolset for people to play around with and thus being responsible for some of the best writing and mini campaigns out there. The OC however, was incredibly dull and pointless. The interface was ugly, the graphics even more so. You mostly fought hordes of low level creatures, easily blasted by AoE spells. The plot was horrible, especially the first part. You murdered more random ruffians than most wars. Apparently the penalty for brandishing a weapon in the city Neverwinter is Instant Death by Adventurer. Non-joinable NPC's were useless and annoying. The partymembers are fairly ok (Grimgnaw the dwarf, Tomi the Halfling and Linu the elf in particular) but purely AI and thus functionally retarded. It was a 'One man and his dog' show for most of the game. Shadows of Undrentide made the plot a liiiittle better, but it felt like the game only came unto its own with Hordes of the Underdark. Interesting plot, setting, twists and turns with better realised partymembers (though Undermountain was again an annoying empty corridor swarm-fighting game and the NPC's still ran around like headless chickens with axes).
NWN2 was far prettier (with a bucket of Bloom over everything), had more partymembers that you could control, a more faithful D&D rule set and more options to choose from. The NPC's had more to say and being able to field a party fully under your control was a welcome difference. However, the engine was clunky and sluggish, camera control could be a hassle and the plot until well after finishing up Neverwinter was incredibly dull. Apparently, nobody there likes Low Level Adventuring as the game really tries to rush you through it (level 1-3 in half an hour by participating in the village fair. Man, I'd like a fair like that!). The plot was linear, the only choice you really had was between choosing boring faction 1 or boring faction 2, while the plot really pointed at "you just need to muscle through this part to get to the good stuff". Again, the expansion is better. Mask of the Betrayer is some of the finest gaming I have ever done (though I say this *despite* the NWN2 engine, not because of) with interesting NPCs, a gripping plot, original setting and storyline, varied locales and a true feeling of being super powerful (I ate a God ffs. How many games give you that option?), something I feel Hordes of the Underdark didn't quite manage, despite levelling far higher. Storm of Zehir was flawed but an interesting idea and fun to play, for a bit. Having the option to have ALL partymembers talk was very refreshing. Normally you make one talky character, but now every partymember could have a say in a conversation, which was really nice.
Overall, I rate NWN2 a better game. If they'd kept it zoomed out/isometric, not as sluggish as it is now (even on brand-new hardware) and cut the horribly dull parts from the plot, it could be excellent.
I thought Neverwinter Nights 2 was terrible and I couldn't even get past the first two hours of playing. The first Neverwinter Nights on the other hand was amazing, and especially some of the expansions.
IMO nwn2 had absolutely superior UI (aesthetically pleasing, good icons in color, easily manageable), with snooze fest for a main OC. really unremarkable, but i think the same about the OC in first nwn (with hotu being the interesting one in the crowd).
mask of the betrayer is the real deal for me. excellent story, memorable moments (meeting with myrkul, wall of faithless, founder etc), fleshed characters and main motif that was gray, morally questionable and out of your power to accomplish (wall of faithless). also it had annoying spirit meter and a bit ridiculous concentration of power and epic encounters.
NWN2. Why? because the original campaign allows you to side with either the law or thieves, and I actually think once you got to a certain point in the game the original campaign takes off rather nicely.
It was pretty clear though that the game needed fine tuning which it never received.
Those ugly graphics in NWN scared me away from 3D games for a long time. It was my first 3D game and the characters were butt ugly. NWN2 was a much better improvement but by that time I was sucked into open world games like Oblivion. Those area transition games are hard for me to play now.
With NWN2 you can control your party, due of that, the battles are more tactics, you can easily customize the interface, there is more class, more feats, more of everything... In terms of gameplay, NWN2 is the successor of BG2, whereas NWN1 is the successor of the firsts Fallout (uncontrollable zombie as a companion).
I voted for NWN, but I like NWN2 also. The main reason for my vote was the modding and modding community for NWN. I have so many fond memories of running through new campaigns and mods, the NWN will always have a special place in my heart.
I despised NWN2 when it first was released. The camera controls and bugs made it virtually unplayable on my pc. Luckily I tried it again a year or so later, and I was so happy I did. I really enjoyed the story, and the look of NWN2 once they fixed a lot of the bugs.
I really wish the modding tools were are easy in NWN2 though, I think that is one of the big downfalls. I have played some pretty good user-made content for NWN2 though, but the learning curve for the tools was too high for me to get into the modding on it though.
I like NWN more but thats properly more because NWN2 didn't run very well on my pc and it was very clunky. I felt that NWN2 could have been epic if it had more development time.
Well i didn't like the OC, a very weak storyline in my opinion, but the MotB was really nice, however the end of this DLC remembered me a little Mass Effect 3, it was not a crap end as ME3, but let a bitter taste in my mouth the fact that the betrayer crusade can't be fulfilled, even if all the requered elements to tear the wall are already with us... a very bitter taste indeed.
- Myrkul essence,you get it by eternal rest or devour which means you can get it as a good (control the hunger) or evil (use the hunger) gameplay.
2 possible uses:
I - Feed the wall of faithless with Myrkul essence, in my line of thought Myrkul made the wall as an eternal hunger demi-being, however the hunger is myrkul's creation, based on his power, so at least i think, by feeding the wall with the essence of the very god that make it would satiate the hunger of the wall of faithless forever.
II - Kelemvor says when we defy him, that he can vanish us from his realm with a thought, cos we're in his realm, however he just replaced the previous god of death, if the main char consume/absorb Myrkul essence the plane would recognize us as a god of death so much as Kelemvor itself, what would disrupt his control over the plane and surelly lock his ability to banish us from the realm.
Well, yes Kelemvor is a god, but not for many time, as he became a god only after the time of troubles, the party isn't made of normal persons, with Okku as a spirit god/ Many as one as an legion of spirits, Safiya as a red wizard fragmented soul that has his own links to the wall, Kaelyn as an half-celestial, Gann as a half-hag with power in dreamwalk and therefore great ability in shape planes.
- Sword of Gith, if anyone think that kill Kelemvor would be somehow impossible, remember that the sword is still with the party.
Sorry for the somehow half-offtopic post, but i get a little frustrated with the end and want to share my thoughts.
NWN2 had the better story, a better interface, more party control, bigger party size, and more Races/Classes, but the game was so buggy and poorly optimized that the gameplay was a complete mess. The lag makes the game borderline unplayable even on powerful systems. I prefer NWN, but MotB is awesome. In fact, if it didn't have the horrendous spirit meter mechanic, I'd probably pick NWN2 despite it's problems just for MotB.
NWN was a good step back from BG2, single player-wise. but it grew on me even though i had to concentrate on ignoring the radial UI, the graphics and the story . NWN2 was garbage. It looked pretty but that was it. Played it to the end hoping for magic that sadly was not there.
MotB had a good plot, what i can't say about the original saga. I only feel that they ignored a lot of options on MotB end.
By the way, can someone explain me an inconsistency of NWN2?
The original campaign is based on the king of the shadows, a being that merged itself with the dark weaver. So that must necessary happens BEFORE the time of troubles, cos after the death of mystra in the hands of Shar (and Cyric), the weaver AND the dark weaver where vanished from existence.
In MotB, the game pass AT LEAST 21 years after the time of troubles (cos one of the loads have an easter egg of Minsc as an already famous hero).
So, was the main character of NWN2 hold on the barrows where he awake on MotB for 21 years? assuming that the time of troubles happened EXACTLY AFTER THE EVENTS of the original campaign.
MotB had a good plot, what i can't say about the original saga. I only feel that they ignored a lot of options on MotB end.
By the way, can someone explain me an inconsistency of NWN2?
The original campaign is based on the king of the shadows, a being that merged itself with the dark weaver. So that must necessary happens BEFORE the time of troubles, cos after the death of mystra in the hands of Shar (and Cyric), the weaver AND the dark weaver where vanished from existence.
In MotB, the game pass AT LEAST 21 years after the time of troubles (cos one of the loads have an easter egg of Minsc as an already famous hero).
So, was the main character of NWN2 hold on the barrows where he awake on MotB for 21 years? assuming that the time of troubles happened EXACTLY AFTER THE EVENTS of the original campaign.
The death of Mystra which led to the spellplague did not take place during the Time of Troubles, but rather several decades afterwards. You are confusing the First Mystra (who indeed died in the Time of Troubles) and the Second Mystra, who is actually a mortal named Midnight who ascended to godhood after the death of the first Mystra. It was the second Mystra's death that caused the Spellplague, and that occurred about 30 years after the Time of Troubles.
I chose for 2 beacuse it made me really feel like I'm in he game , with all the interaction between the npc's and nwn really looks crappy ( except for the spells )
I could never get into NWN 1. The Henchman system killed the party for me, and the "character development" was learning new things about their past tied to your own levelling up. It didn't make much sense to me and wasn't particularly engaging. Plus the story wasn't very good.
I voted NWN1. The OC campaign was just so so, but the multiplayer and custom content aspect of the game kept it alive for many years for me. In fact, I never finished the OC on my first play through because I got distracted by MP and community content. It was a few years after I bought the game that I finally decided to finish it. NWN2, I never bought, I tried to play it at a friend's house, but it could not capture my interest.
Edit: I did play through both expansions as well and liked those campaigns a lot more, especially HotU.
I'm preferential to Neverwinter Nights simply for the ease of use of it's toolset and the online/custom content communities. That said, the OC for NWN2 was stellar, haven't had a chance to play it's expansions yet, going to wait until I have a new PC.
Honorable Mention: Hordes of the Underdark was a superb expansion pack for Neverwinter Nights.
I hate to do this, but I'm not sure where else to ask. Does anyone know a store where I could buy NWN or NWN2 for Mac? Retail, I'd prefer to not buy it online from Ebay or Amazon.
And NWN2. NWN always crashed on me, and while NWN2 did too, I got much farther in it. Never left Neverwinter in NWN
but the price for a new copy is a robbery, $59,95, you can try an used copy (at your own risk) or to contact Interplay Entertainment, the game publisher on the following link:
Send an e-mail for them and ask for a place to buy online the game for MAC.
If interplay fails in link you to a place to buy the game and If your only option to get a new copy of this game is the robbery of $59,95 on amazon, the council i would give to you i can't post plain here otherwise i would get an reminder from the admins, but you get what i mean. The trouble should belong to the merchant to sell, not to the customer to buy. I don't know if they produce boxed versions yet (i believe they don't) so if no one sell this game online as i said on the begin of this post, to buy you gonna sweat.
If it wasn't for the fact that the graphics were amazingly better in NWN2, I wouldn't even have to stop to think about it. However, NWN is just easier to mod, feels more active, and while the OC was nothing to write home about, the stories in the expansion were excellent. NWN2 had a good story but a very poor ending, the first expansion was solid, but the final expansion was disappointing, IMO. (I tried to play NWN2 again after DA, and simply couldn't do it. Even doing the tutorial was painful -- the combat was just so sub-par.)
@LREC, if you have Neverwinter Night 2 AND MotB & SoZ installed on your PC, instead of brought IWD you could install the mega mod from nexus that remake the game on NWN2 engine, just know that i don't have this mod and i don't know if it's good or not, it's just a possibility, more than an advice.
If not for modules by the community, the original NWN would have been a complete bust for me. The original campaign was so uninspired I had to force myself to finish it.
NWN2 all the way. Better story and better characters, which is what I play RPGs for.
Comments
Ouch... harsh... but kind of accurate in its own regard. I really have to agree with you most on the NWN2 toolset crashes... that was so freaking annoying. I usually only used the toolset to be a cheaty face, and give myself interesting loot or something, but I do have some experience with using both, and I can easily agree that NWN 1 had it right. I find this happens a lot with the more modern games, mainly because so much has been added, and yet the controls are made to be so much harder to work with.
NWN1 deserves points for being what it is; one of the first 'big' titles that gave a giant toolset for people to play around with and thus being responsible for some of the best writing and mini campaigns out there.
The OC however, was incredibly dull and pointless. The interface was ugly, the graphics even more so. You mostly fought hordes of low level creatures, easily blasted by AoE spells. The plot was horrible, especially the first part. You murdered more random ruffians than most wars. Apparently the penalty for brandishing a weapon in the city Neverwinter is Instant Death by Adventurer. Non-joinable NPC's were useless and annoying. The partymembers are fairly ok (Grimgnaw the dwarf, Tomi the Halfling and Linu the elf in particular) but purely AI and thus functionally retarded. It was a 'One man and his dog' show for most of the game.
Shadows of Undrentide made the plot a liiiittle better, but it felt like the game only came unto its own with Hordes of the Underdark. Interesting plot, setting, twists and turns with better realised partymembers (though Undermountain was again an annoying empty corridor swarm-fighting game and the NPC's still ran around like headless chickens with axes).
NWN2 was far prettier (with a bucket of Bloom over everything), had more partymembers that you could control, a more faithful D&D rule set and more options to choose from. The NPC's had more to say and being able to field a party fully under your control was a welcome difference.
However, the engine was clunky and sluggish, camera control could be a hassle and the plot until well after finishing up Neverwinter was incredibly dull. Apparently, nobody there likes Low Level Adventuring as the game really tries to rush you through it (level 1-3 in half an hour by participating in the village fair. Man, I'd like a fair like that!). The plot was linear, the only choice you really had was between choosing boring faction 1 or boring faction 2, while the plot really pointed at "you just need to muscle through this part to get to the good stuff".
Again, the expansion is better. Mask of the Betrayer is some of the finest gaming I have ever done (though I say this *despite* the NWN2 engine, not because of) with interesting NPCs, a gripping plot, original setting and storyline, varied locales and a true feeling of being super powerful (I ate a God ffs. How many games give you that option?), something I feel Hordes of the Underdark didn't quite manage, despite levelling far higher.
Storm of Zehir was flawed but an interesting idea and fun to play, for a bit. Having the option to have ALL partymembers talk was very refreshing. Normally you make one talky character, but now every partymember could have a say in a conversation, which was really nice.
Overall, I rate NWN2 a better game. If they'd kept it zoomed out/isometric, not as sluggish as it is now (even on brand-new hardware) and cut the horribly dull parts from the plot, it could be excellent.
mask of the betrayer is the real deal for me. excellent story, memorable moments (meeting with myrkul, wall of faithless, founder etc), fleshed characters and main motif that was gray, morally questionable and out of your power to accomplish (wall of faithless). also it had annoying spirit meter and a bit ridiculous concentration of power and epic encounters.
It was pretty clear though that the game needed fine tuning which it never received.
I despised NWN2 when it first was released. The camera controls and bugs made it virtually unplayable on my pc. Luckily I tried it again a year or so later, and I was so happy I did. I really enjoyed the story, and the look of NWN2 once they fixed a lot of the bugs.
I really wish the modding tools were are easy in NWN2 though, I think that is one of the big downfalls. I have played some pretty good user-made content for NWN2 though, but the learning curve for the tools was too high for me to get into the modding on it though.
Glabrin
But, by screenshots second NeverWinter should be much more deep, and complex then first.
- Myrkul essence,you get it by eternal rest or devour which means you can get it as a good (control the hunger) or evil (use the hunger) gameplay.
2 possible uses:
I - Feed the wall of faithless with Myrkul essence, in my line of thought Myrkul made the wall as an eternal hunger demi-being, however the hunger is myrkul's creation, based on his power, so at least i think, by feeding the wall with the essence of the very god that make it would satiate the hunger of the wall of faithless forever.
II - Kelemvor says when we defy him, that he can vanish us from his realm with a thought, cos we're in his realm, however he just replaced the previous god of death, if the main char consume/absorb Myrkul essence the plane would recognize us as a god of death so much as Kelemvor itself, what would disrupt his control over the plane and surelly lock his ability to banish us from the realm.
Well, yes Kelemvor is a god, but not for many time, as he became a god only after the time of troubles, the party isn't made of normal persons, with Okku as a spirit god/ Many as one as an legion of spirits, Safiya as a red wizard fragmented soul that has his own links to the wall, Kaelyn as an half-celestial, Gann as a half-hag with power in dreamwalk and therefore great ability in shape planes.
- Sword of Gith, if anyone think that kill Kelemvor would be somehow impossible, remember that the sword is still with the party.
Sorry for the somehow half-offtopic post, but i get a little frustrated with the end and want to share my thoughts.
By the way, can someone explain me an inconsistency of NWN2?
The original campaign is based on the king of the shadows, a being that merged itself with the dark weaver. So that must necessary happens BEFORE the time of troubles, cos after the death of mystra in the hands of Shar (and Cyric), the weaver AND the dark weaver where vanished from existence.
In MotB, the game pass AT LEAST 21 years after the time of troubles (cos one of the loads have an easter egg of Minsc as an already famous hero).
So, was the main character of NWN2 hold on the barrows where he awake on MotB for 21 years? assuming that the time of troubles happened EXACTLY AFTER THE EVENTS of the original campaign.
I didnt play nwn2 much, but when i did i could not get over the "every conversation must be a time-consuming zoom-in cut scene" dynamic.
Edit: I did play through both expansions as well and liked those campaigns a lot more, especially HotU.
That said, the OC for NWN2 was stellar, haven't had a chance to play it's expansions yet, going to wait until I have a new PC.
Honorable Mention: Hordes of the Underdark was a superb expansion pack for Neverwinter Nights.
Edit: http://www.neverwinter.nexusmods.com/mods/31
O.o, i didn't knew that IWD was fully converted to NWN2 engine, what a surprise
And NWN2. NWN always crashed on me, and while NWN2 did too, I got much farther in it. Never left Neverwinter in NWN
I found this one for MAC on amazon.com (i know you don't want from amazon):
http://www.amazon.com/Icewind-Dale-Mac/dp/B00005AG2N
but the price for a new copy is a robbery, $59,95, you can try an used copy (at your own risk) or to contact Interplay Entertainment, the game publisher on the following link:
http://www.interplay.com/support/customer_service.php
Send an e-mail for them and ask for a place to buy online the game for MAC.
If interplay fails in link you to a place to buy the game and If your only option to get a new copy of this game is the robbery of $59,95 on amazon, the council i would give to you i can't post plain here otherwise i would get an reminder from the admins, but you get what i mean. The trouble should belong to the merchant to sell, not to the customer to buy. I don't know if they produce boxed versions yet (i believe they don't) so if no one sell this game online as i said on the begin of this post, to buy you gonna sweat.
NWN2 all the way. Better story and better characters, which is what I play RPGs for.