Dispel Magic and Breach question + text window question

ou_deis

So a major enemy appeared to already have magical protections. I used the Inquisitor's Dispel Magic and got something like an "[enemy name] - Effects Dispelled" message which seemed to indicate it had worked. I'm 99% sure the enemy (would it be a spoiler to say which one?) didn't cast another protection spell, but my weapons and spells were ineffective. Died.

Then I tried casting dispel magic followed by breach. Same message, except this time after the Dispel Magic worked the breach said something like "[enemy] - protections removed" and my weapons finally worked. So why didn't the Dispel Magic remove those protections? Or did Breach remove weapon protections that weren't technically considered spells? (Enemy is a type of beholder / boss.)

Is the text saved somewhere so I can review it? It scrolls by really quickly and the interface isn't very convenient (have to choose between having a tiny area for the text or having a larger area which covers over the character animations... is there a way to have the larger text window without it obscuring the animations? to just make the animation screen smaller and the text window larger?).

Real

It's hard to say without knowing the specific protection magic involved. Regardless, keep in mind that the base chance of dispel magic working is 50%. This is modified by +/- 5% for every one level you are above or below other person. Generally speaking, inquisitors' innate dispel magic has a far better chance of working than their magic or priest counterparts since it functions as twice their level. Nevertheless, against a high level enemy (i.e., bosses), a low level inquisitor may find their spells to be a tad less reliable than usual. If anything, dispel magic is only reliable for inquisitors until your mage/priest reach higher levels.

Moreover, even if dispel magic DID work, I recall that it does not dispel globe of invulnerability. So your offensive magical spells likely won't work on the enemy until the globe dissipates. Also, note that your enemies (and your allies too) will also show: "Name: Dispel effects" when hit by dispel magic. This does not necessary mean that the effects are successfully dispelled but only that they have been hit by dispel magics.

In comparison, breach is a much more surefire way of getting rid of enemy combat protections. Although, several enemies comes to mind in SoA that are immune to it and certain defensive protections makes it unusable unless if removed first through other means (e.g., improved invisibility).

As for the text area, I really agree that it could do with more improvements. The best bet is really modifying the resolutions or zooming in out. Although, I found that neither were good compromises.

kamuizin

dispel magic doesn't dispell magical protections but does dispell physical protections excpet "protection from normal/magical weapons, mantle, improved mantle and absolute imunity". Dispel Magic isn't 100% sure to dispell (the guy above gave the % of chances with dispel magic).

Breach will only take of magical protections until a certain level (witch i don't remember atm), so it probally can remove a PFMW, maybe mantle, but surely it can't remove improved mantle (use khelgar's whip something - lvl 7° arcane spell - for that, or pierce magic from lvl 8° arcane circle).

CrevsDaak

@kamuizin Breach takes down all the Combat Protection type, Ray of Ruby Reversal takes out all the Spell Protection out, Spellstrike takes all the types of Protection spells out, Dispel Magic is useless in ToB unless you are an Inquisitor, also Dispel Magic don't works if the enemy has Spell Trap or Spell Shield.
Maybe @ou_deis was battling an enemy naturally immune to the weapons he had.

elminster

If you were fighting a Lich they are innately immune to weapons that have less than +4 for their enchantment (with some exceptions), and they are immune to level 5 spells and lower.

CrevsDaak

What @elminster said, plus, Liches like casting Prot. From Magic Weapons, may they burn in the Abyss.

Mitchfork

I believe that when you cast Dispel Magic, the text box will say "[Character] - Effects Dispelled" for every character hit by the Dispel, whether or not their protections were dispelled (or even if they had no protections to be dispelled). You can see this if you cast a party buff, and then try to dispel your own effects- it may only work on a few members, but every party member shows up in the text box.

wizzywazzo

CrevsDaak said:

What @elminster said, plus, Liches like casting Prot. From Magic Weapons, may they burn in the Abyss.

So if liches are immune to level 5 spells and below, how can you dispell PFMW if breach is the only thing to strip combat protections. All the higher spells only strip magic protections. I suppose you could strip their magic protections and kill them with magic, but this is a pain because most of the damaging spells are sub- level 5.

Mitchfork

Protection from Magical Weapons expires after 4 rounds, so it's relatively easy to wait out even without a specific counter.

Larkus

wizzywazzo said:

So if liches are immune to level 5 spells and below, how can you dispell PFMW if breach is the only thing to strip combat protections. All the higher spells only strip magic protections. I suppose you could strip their magic protections and kill them with magic, but this is a pain because most of the damaging spells are sub- level 5.

Dispel/Remove Magic ignore Lich immunity. Dispel/Remove Magic also affect "protection from normal/magical weapons, mantle, improved mantle and absolute immunity", at least in vanilla BG2. Still, Liches tend to be high level, some, like Shangalar or the Elemental Lich, very high level, so not even Inquisitor Dispel is guaranteed to work. I think though, that it is much more convenient to wait out his PfmWs and Improved Mantles, like Mitchfork proposed, or you could nuke the Lich with area damage, Death Fog is a particularly effective Lich Killer. Don't bother with stripping his magic protections, area damage spells pass right through spell protections.

@elminster
As far as I know, Liches are only immune to normal weapons, but they like to cast Improved Mantle, which makes them immune to weapons of +3 or lower enchantment.
http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/BG2/SpellsReference/Immunities.htm#WeaponImmunity

elminster

You are correct about the weapons I was thinking they were treated the same as demi-liches there. Their continguency has them cast either protection from magical weapons or improved mantle. It depends on the particular lich file.

ou_deis

Actually I wasn't fighting a lich but a boss version of a beholder-type. And after breach was cast +3 weapons killed it. Thanks for trying to help, though.

Corvino

I'm moderately sure that Liches are immune to Breach and normal Dispel magic due to both being level 5 or below.

They are *not* immune to Inquisitor's innate dispel magic which casts at level 0 (bypassing level immunity) or Carsomyr's on-hit dispel though. Now that EE has fixed Carsomyr it makes Liches a cakewalk.

AstroBryGuy

Check this spreadsheet for what protections Dispel Magic and Breach will take down.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AoLScCUe7V__dE1RaEhCbm5na0VlakQwYVMxOFJVc1E&usp=drive_web#gid=0