No it's not necessary. You don't want the new NPCs to stand out too much from excessive dialogue over the other NPCs. What IS expansion worthy is New maps, New Quests, and New kits with new items and new monsters, however.
@elminster of course it depends. since they have relationship track, it is only fair we compare them to old romantic interests. AFAIK dorn has 13 SOA 3 TOB talks (weird i seem to miss one), neera has 15 SOA 2 TOB talks rasaad has 14 SOA 4 TOB talks
old npc's are in 20-34 talks range in SOA and something like 7 talks in TOB, not mentioning other plot devices missing (post sex talks, bodhi abduction, post wraith talk, missing sound at crucial points and beginning of lovetalks, interjections in TOB etc.)
that is significant decrease, not to mention bg2 is a looooong game and silence quickly becomes deafening.
Ok but I mean to look at it from a non-romantic standpoint Dorn has dialogue in ToB with Sarevok, Aerie, Anomen (chaotic neutral), Anomen (lawful good), Cernd, Jaheira, Edwin, Haer'Dalis, Imoen, Korgan, Mazzy, Minsc, Viconia, Rasaad, Hexxat, and Neera.
Compare that to say Mazzy. She has dialogue with Aerie, Keldorn, Anomen, Jan, Haer'Dalis, Imoen, Valygar, Korgan, Sarevok, Nalia, Aerie (during a romance with charname), Rasaad, Dorn, Neera, and Hexxat.
Rasaad admittedly speaks a lot more with party members in SoA compared to ToB but I think generally for banters between party members they are comparable.
As for whether or not its only fair to compare them to old romantic interests well, some people are less talkative than others? hehe. Still, I think if you factor in how much dialogue they have with charname if they aren't a romantic interest and how much dialogue they have with other party members the new NPC's are comparable or even have a greater amount of dialogue than the old ones.
As for whether or not its only fair to compare them to old romantic interests well, some people are less talkative than others? hehe. Still, I think if you factor in how much dialogue they have with charname if they aren't a romantic interest and how much dialogue they have with other party members the new NPC's are comparable or even have a greater amount of dialogue than the old ones.
That's a good point - Jaheira's romance is notorious for being substantially longer than Viconia's or Aerie's, so it's not like the original love interests were totally balanced to begin with...
interesting, but what is important is that despite not all old NPC's having the exact same amount of lovetalks, they still had enough to cover most of the game on normal-paced playthrough, including interjections to make their presence and thoughts known.
npc's that operate with half or someplace even one-third of that content just can't compete in the end. quests are nice (although they are hardly the only NPC's that have them) but minor addition in a huge game.
@trinit: You're overlooking the fact that the EE NPCs have substantially more ToB content than any other character - they're the only ones with actual quests.
@shawne and you are overlooking the fact the quest does not equal or compensate lovetalks & interjections. both are character content but serve very different purposes and belong to separate mechanics within game.
I'm starting to get the feeling that you're after something very, very specific, and in trying to frame that in broader terms, you're making quite a few errors with basic facts.
To wit: the ToB quests do equal more lovetalks and interjections, because everything in Lunia is about Dorn, and romance can factor into how Hexxat's quest concludes, etc. Does Viconia have that kind or amount of content in ToB? Does Imoen? Does Minsc?
No, they don't. So, even if some NPCs have more content than the EE characters in SoA (and, again, that's hardly a universal claim - Minsc, Aerie, Viconia, Sarevok and Imoen don't even have personal quests at all, and Imoen misses out on a lot of time with the party simply by virtue of not being around for most of SoA), the scales clearly tip the other way in ToB.
Now, that's clearly not an answer that you can accept (as is evidenced by the fact that this poll has four affirmative answers to one negative and one apathetic), which is fine. You can argue about the quality of the quests, whether you enjoyed them, whether you thought they were appropriate, that's all well and good. But I think that if you want this discussion to be more productive, you need to be clearer about what exactly you think needs improving, because deliberately skewing the numbers to support your argument (ie: "npc's that operate with half or someplace even one-third of that content just can't compete in the end") doesn't prove anything.
@shawne was i not clear enough up to this point? and you are correct i'm after something very specific- romance track, interjections and banters equal in quantity as the old NPC's are, and that goes for every new NPC in area he/she is deficient. abundant rasaad interjections do not make up for none of neera's for example. i believe that would as a consequence improve their quality and integrate them more seamlessly into the game. i think this is as exact as i can be IMO. my emotional generalizations are another matter and i have right to them, since i'm obviously biased toward one option and this is the whole purpose of polls and discussions such as these.
i'm sorry if 4 affirmative answers bother you, but please note they are just variations on one theme since i wanted people to avoid specific options if they deem npc's have enough banter but not enough interjections for example, and most importantly, i tried to avoid emotional bias. if anything i've fragmented affirmative options.
and last. i get a feeling you still haven't played the game. i think you wouldn't otherwise using word "substantial" so freely. in dorn's case in TOB we are talking about 2 areas and two fights (hexxat's quest was quite good, i admit). i continue to stand behind opinion that quests are great way to elaborate on character and i am in no way against them, but missing lovetalks and interjections continue to be missing.
and i also have a feeling you are after something specific (no idea what, really) since you form such precise opinions without experience. i understand if you simply dislike my reasoning or disagree altogether, but it's one thing to read it in a chunk, and another when this content is stretched over 80+ hours of gameplay. if you have indeed finished your playthrough i take my words back. one way or another, we obviously have very different, and firm, views on this matter, as well as our expectations of the game.
i will refrain from further discussion with you as we are running in circles too much. poll is about expansion pack for new NPC's for the reasons stated in this thread already. you are against that, you made it abundantly clear and that is ok.
and frankly? i'm not so naive to think expansion dlc will happen. but i hope devs will see this and other threads and find them relevant enough to perhaps put more attention to some other details in eventual new NPC dlc or something to that extent.
If the new NPCs don't get plot-specific such as being captured by Bodhi or talking to the wraith, I'd like to see that covered by new content. That type of stuff really makes the game for me.
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Compare that to say Mazzy. She has dialogue with Aerie, Keldorn, Anomen, Jan, Haer'Dalis, Imoen, Valygar, Korgan, Sarevok, Nalia, Aerie (during a romance with charname), Rasaad, Dorn, Neera, and Hexxat.
Rasaad admittedly speaks a lot more with party members in SoA compared to ToB but I think generally for banters between party members they are comparable.
As for whether or not its only fair to compare them to old romantic interests well, some people are less talkative than others? hehe. Still, I think if you factor in how much dialogue they have with charname if they aren't a romantic interest and how much dialogue they have with other party members the new NPC's are comparable or even have a greater amount of dialogue than the old ones.
npc's that operate with half or someplace even one-third of that content just can't compete in the end. quests are nice (although they are hardly the only NPC's that have them) but minor addition in a huge game.
To wit: the ToB quests do equal more lovetalks and interjections, because everything in Lunia is about Dorn, and romance can factor into how Hexxat's quest concludes, etc. Does Viconia have that kind or amount of content in ToB? Does Imoen? Does Minsc?
No, they don't. So, even if some NPCs have more content than the EE characters in SoA (and, again, that's hardly a universal claim - Minsc, Aerie, Viconia, Sarevok and Imoen don't even have personal quests at all, and Imoen misses out on a lot of time with the party simply by virtue of not being around for most of SoA), the scales clearly tip the other way in ToB.
Now, that's clearly not an answer that you can accept (as is evidenced by the fact that this poll has four affirmative answers to one negative and one apathetic), which is fine. You can argue about the quality of the quests, whether you enjoyed them, whether you thought they were appropriate, that's all well and good. But I think that if you want this discussion to be more productive, you need to be clearer about what exactly you think needs improving, because deliberately skewing the numbers to support your argument (ie: "npc's that operate with half or someplace even one-third of that content just can't compete in the end") doesn't prove anything.
As far as banters go, I know Neera should have at least one per each joinable NPC, and often more. According to my notes...
MInsc 3
Jaheira 1
Imoen 3
Yoshimo 2
Aerie 2
Viconia 1
Jan 1
Korgan 1
Keldorn 2
Valygar 2
Anomen 6 (some of these are very short (4 lines))
Cernd 1
Mazzy 1
Haer'Dalis 2
Nalia 2
S******* 1
Rasaad 1
Hexxat 1
Dorn 1
Some players have also posted additional Neera banters that I did not write.
i think this is as exact as i can be IMO. my emotional generalizations are another matter and i have right to them, since i'm obviously biased toward one option and this is the whole purpose of polls and discussions such as these.
i'm sorry if 4 affirmative answers bother you, but please note they are just variations on one theme since i wanted people to avoid specific options if they deem npc's have enough banter but not enough interjections for example, and most importantly, i tried to avoid emotional bias. if anything i've fragmented affirmative options.
and last. i get a feeling you still haven't played the game. i think you wouldn't otherwise using word "substantial" so freely. in dorn's case in TOB we are talking about 2 areas and two fights (hexxat's quest was quite good, i admit). i continue to stand behind opinion that quests are great way to elaborate on character and i am in no way against them, but missing lovetalks and interjections continue to be missing.
and i also have a feeling you are after something specific (no idea what, really) since you form such precise opinions without experience. i understand if you simply dislike my reasoning or disagree altogether, but it's one thing to read it in a chunk, and another when this content is stretched over 80+ hours of gameplay.
if you have indeed finished your playthrough i take my words back. one way or another, we obviously have very different, and firm, views on this matter, as well as our expectations of the game.
i will refrain from further discussion with you as we are running in circles too much. poll is about expansion pack for new NPC's for the reasons stated in this thread already. you are against that, you made it abundantly clear and that is ok.
and frankly? i'm not so naive to think expansion dlc will happen. but i hope devs will see this and other threads and find them relevant enough to perhaps put more attention to some other details in eventual new NPC dlc or something to that extent.