Strategy against spellcasters ? (and Neera spoilers)

AnotherLife

How do you know which protections a caster has ? And how do you remove them ? I use Pierce magic when he has some anti-magic globe and Breach when he has a blob under him. Is Remove Magic useful ?

The console doesn't give enough info I feel. Also, I can't see which spell an enemy is starting to cast. I used to be able to in the original.

Also, is Shadow Door worth it ? I mean, why not cast Imp Invisibility ?

Flashburn

If your fighters say they can't damage them, use Breach.

Blue globes around them, shiny blue-and-silver circles under their feet, and spheres of twisting energy mean they've got protections against spells. Use Spell Thrust, Spellstrike, Khelben's Warding Whip, and the rest.

Remove/Dispel Magic vary in their effectiveness. Against lower-level mages like the ones that ambush you in random encounters in Athkatla, it's highly effective but usually not worth expending one since your fighters can mop the floor with them. Against higher-level enemies it's far less effective since the dispel chance lowers by 10% for every level lower that you are compared to them with a base chance of 50%.

The only advantage that Shadow Door has over Improved Invis is that it lasts longer.

You can tell what school of magic a mage is casting depending on his chants. They're actually all Latin for their respective schools. Props to @Mortianna for these which I have shameless copy-pasted from that one thread:

Abjuration: "Manus, Potentis, Paro" = "A hand, powerful, I prepare"

Alteration: "Praeses, Alia, Fero" = "Protecting, another, I bring this forth"

Conjuration: "Facio, Voco, Ferre" = "This I do, I call, to bring you forth"

Divination: "Scio, Didici, Pecto" = "I know, for I have studied, with my mind"

Enchantment: "Cupio, Virtus, Licet" = "I want, excellence, allowed to me"

Evocation: "Incertus, Pulcher, Imperio" = "Uncertain, beautiful things, I command"

Illusion: "Veritas, Credo, Oculos" = "The truth, I believe, with my eyes"

Necromancy: "Vita, Mortis, Careo" = "Life, and death, I am without" (or "Life, death, decay" if "Careo" was mistakenly used instead of "Caries," which means decay or rotten)

nano

Yeah, the chants are actually kind of helpful. I miss them if I play with the sound off. Each school has its own animation too, so if you see the red sparkle then you know to hit the deck.

[Deleted User]

Wow. I've played enough that I can recognize spell schools by the chants, but I had no idea they were actual phrases. Cool.

Dragonspear

You know you're a melee player when someone asks for your strat against spellcasters, and your initial response is "keep hitting them till their feet stop kicking and they drop loot".

Maybe this explains why I often have issues against high level casters....

Shin

At higher levels, the main incentive to bring a mage is to strip other mages of their defenses really.

ScytheKnight

Bring an Inquisitor

AnotherLife

Good info, thanks.

Is there a way to see more info in the console ? Mainly the name of their spell they're casting ? I'm positive I could see that in some oollddd playthrough of mine (bg2)

(wait, I think there is an autopause option for that, maybe then it mentions the spell name?)

Lace

Another useful strategy against spellcasters is to hit them for poison or acid damage. I like darts of wounding (3 apr), though arrows of biting (2 apr) are also good. Also, characters with the ability to poison their weapons, like Dorn (blackguards) and assassins are also useful. The poison tick will disrupt further spell-casting.

Erinne

Lace said:

Another useful strategy against spellcasters is to hit them for poison or acid damage. I like darts of wounding (3 apr), though arrows of biting (2 apr) are also good. Also, characters with the ability to poison their weapons, like Dorn (blackguards) and assassins are also useful. The poison tick will disrupt further spell-casting.

Insect plague/creeping doom is also a nice damage over time effect, with the added bonus that it also spreads to nearby enemy targets.

nano

Creeping doom does a ton of damage and might just kill them outright. I found this out after it nearly wiped my entire party.

comebackhome

Flashburn said:

If your fighters say they can't damage them, use Breach.

Blue globes around them, shiny blue-and-silver circles under their feet, and spheres of twisting energy mean they've got protections against spells. Use Spell Thrust, Spellstrike, Khelben's Warding Whip, and the rest.

Remove/Dispel Magic vary in their effectiveness. Against lower-level mages like the ones that ambush you in random encounters in Athkatla, it's highly effective but usually not worth expending one since your fighters can mop the floor with them. Against higher-level enemies it's far less effective since the dispel chance lowers by 10% for every level lower that you are compared to them with a base chance of 50%.

The only advantage that Shadow Door has over Improved Invis is that it lasts longer.

You can tell what school of magic a mage is casting depending on his chants. They're actually all Latin for their respective schools. Props to @Mortianna for these which I have shameless copy-pasted from that one thread:

Abjuration: "Manus, Potentis, Paro" = "A hand, powerful, I prepare"

Alteration: "Praeses, Alia, Fero" = "Protecting, another, I bring this forth"

Conjuration: "Facio, Voco, Ferre" = "This I do, I call, to bring you forth"

Divination: "Scio, Didici, Pecto" = "I know, for I have studied, with my mind"

Enchantment: "Cupio, Virtus, Licet" = "I want, excellence, allowed to me"

Evocation: "Incertus, Pulcher, Imperio" = "Uncertain, beautiful things, I command"

Illusion: "Veritas, Credo, Oculos" = "The truth, I believe, with my eyes"

Necromancy: "Vita, Mortis, Careo" = "Life, and death, I am without" (or "Life, death, decay" if "Careo" was mistakenly used instead of "Caries," which means decay or rotten)

This post made my day, thanks for putting that up!

Kaltzor

Depending on your preparations, if you don't really have any because you were not exactly ready for a huge fight, you can help your mage with using your cleric to throw out dispels at well. But mostly you should want to use Remove Magic to get rid of protections...

[Deleted User]

Although it may seem like overkill, I've had fun with a particular strategy at higher levels. Improved Alacrity coupled with the Robe of Vecna (and the Amulet of Power possibly) allows you to take out protections at a mindboggling rate. This is especially useful when you run into multiple mages who all have their own Protection from Magical Weapons/Spell Turning/etc up. It also helps to have the 'spell cast' autopause option on, or you lose precious segments after each cast.

Keep in mind that you can get around most humanoid (e.g. not undead, not demons, etc) mages that use Protection from Magical Weapons simply by switching to a normal weapon. I always keep nonmagical weapons on my main melee characters for this situation. Takes up some quickslot/inventory space, but it's worth it!

You also need to be aware that certain foes have immunity to certain things.

For example, liches are innately immune to both normal weapons, and all spells below level 6. That means that if a lich puts up Protection from Magical Weapons, he's immune to ALL weapons. It also means that your garden-variety Breach, being a level 5 spell, doesn't work on him. I've heard that the Breach used by the Wand of Spell Striking is cast as a level 6 spell and therefore works on liches, but I haven't tested it yet. Rakshasa also have innate spell immunity to all spells below level 8, and demiliches are immune to everything below level 9.

The Remove Magic tactic suggested by @Kaltzor has one drawback, in that you start off with a base 50% chance to dispel, and that goes down by 10% for every level that you're below the mage whose spell you're trying to dispel (with a minimum of 1% chance to work if the mage is 5 or more levels higher than you). Ergo, it works pretty well at very late stages in the game, but will very rarely work early on when most of the casters are higher level than you are.

Wilbur

Here's a helpful page for knowing how to counter which defensive spell:

http://www.forgottenwars.com/oogi/counters.htm

GemHound

"How do you kill a mage?"

It's all in the poison and interruption of spells. Unless of course they have resistance against the elements too, then you are umm.... dead?

Naveen

@Cyteen yes. Always carry a few normal weapons. That mage Edwin asks you to kill? Korgan + speed potion + throwing axe as a melee weapon. The poor guy died in an instant. With Spell Thrust, Secret Word o Pierce Magic you can erase those annoying minor spell turning (and minor globe of invulnerability) so you can spam them with magic missile, perfect for interrupting and against stoneskin. Higher-epic level mages are similar, but you'll ned to counter more things. The guide @Wilbur posted is very useful.

AnotherLife

Wtf with that Red Wizard battle in the Promenade ? Disintegrate, lol seriously. I've lost 10 times in a row, most probably by disintegrate on CHARNAME.

And what level are those damn guards ?

Also, was it possible in the vanilla game to autopause on enemy spells or not ? And see what they were casting in the console ?

Generally it feels like the game is cheating, or are they all wearing Robes of Vecna and blasting spells EZ-mode ?

Pantalion

Strategy against spellcasters?

Cover them in BEEEEEEEES.

[Deleted User]

AnotherLife said:

Wtf with that Red Wizard battle in the Promenade ? Disintegrate, lol seriously. I've lost 10 times in a row, most probably by disintegrate on CHARNAME.

And what level are those damn guards ?

Also, was it possible in the vanilla game to autopause on enemy spells or not ? And see what they were casting in the console ?

Generally it feels like the game is cheating, or are they all wearing Robes of Vecna and blasting spells EZ-mode ?

They're not cheating, they're just playing A LOT smarter than vanilla mages ever did. And they're using wands, the guards are using potions, you name it.

IMO, this encounter is really geared to a mid-level SoA party, which is a bit deceptive because you can wind up here almost straight out of the dungeon (especially if you are motivated to do Neera's content). There should be a warning sign above the door that says 'No N00bs'. And even if you're an experienced player, it can seriously catch you off-guard. I know it caught me with my Golden Pantaloons down.

AnotherLife

My party is about lvl 11-12, but with really good equipment.

What level are those goddamn guards that they can keep hitting my CHARNAME with his -3 AC ? I can't even fire off a healing spell in time, it takes like 2 centuries to cast.

Astafas

Is it correct that Nishruu and Hakeashar will empty the wizards wands and other items? Cause you want the spoils as intact as possible of course... :-D

Is it also true that you can't have both Protection from Magic Weapon and Protection from Normal Weapon up at the same time? Then the tip to carry some non-magical weapons really gets interesting.

That Red Wiz fight is a pain. Especially their leader, both hasted and invisible. I normally find her equipement laying about somewhere on the floor after Dorn's poison has done its work, but seldom see her go down.

Mitchfork

Astafas said:

Is it also true that you can't have both Protection from Magic Weapon and Protection from Normal Weapon up at the same time? Then the tip to carry some non-magical weapons really gets interesting.

That's correct, although some enemies (Liches) have Protection from Normal Weapons as an innate attribute which does allow them to cast Protection from Magical Weapons and have both running simultaneously. It doesn't sound like that's the case here, though I haven't done this encounter.

Also a tip for invisible enemies- True Sight can be cast from scroll at any level, and you can buy them from various scroll merchants in the Promenade. Unlike Detect Invisibility or Invisibility Purge it has a duration, meaning enemies can't just refresh their illusions to get around it. If it's a really tough fight burning a couple of scrolls is totally worth it considering the huge number of scrolls you're going to get through random loot anyway.

AnotherLife

Finally I managed to kill them all, Dukat, too, because I just had to open up with a fireball that caught him I guess that's why he turned hostile.

Anyway, Minsc actually did a save vs spell and avoided disintegration, that's a one in a million chance obviously.

BelgarathMTH

The spell Death Ward will stop Disintegrate, Power Word:Kill, and the like. If you're having trouble with instakills in an encounter, Death Ward is what you need.

As @Pantalion suggested, the druid spell Insect Plague can work miracles against large parties of enemy mages, causing 100 percent spell failure.

Lathrael

Don't leave home without breach or true seeing, that's how you beat spellcasters.

Pantalion

AnotherLife said:

My party is about lvl 11-12, but with really good equipment.

What level are those goddamn guards that they can keep hitting my CHARNAME with his -3 AC ? I can't even fire off a healing spell in time, it takes like 2 centuries to cast.

-3 AC isn't actually that good. Your average level 10 fighter can hit that more than 50% of the time with mundane weapons and middling stats. If your AC isn't that impressive, either use someone with better, load out Glitterdust, Slow and Horror/Emotion/Chaos, or ensure your stoneskins and other mitigation buffs are up.

[Deleted User]

Also, don't try to fire off a healing spell in combat; they're way too slow for any situation where you actually need one. Rely on potions instead.

nano

I summon a planetar for healing

Their instant spells are really good.

(yes I know this does not help at level 11 but it's worth knowing)

Flashburn

Cleric/Mages can use the Robe of Vecna and Amulet of Power for super-fast healing spells in the midst of battle. I find myself using Aerie over and over just because of that simple fact even though I dislike her personality.

AnotherLife

Omg that Red Wizard crap is soo annoying, I free the slaves abuse the door, I keep summoning stuff, and STILL there are more enemies, is there an end to them ? That IronEye idiot is like Superman or something ? My barbarian can't even go into Barbarian Rage because he gets interrupted during the "spell" hurr durr, cool story bros.

Is this a "can you cheese hard enough" battle ?