Why JRPG fans hate Western RPGs?

ShapiroKeatsDarkMage

It kinda bugs me.

JRPG fans utterly despise anything related to D&D and western videogames or they simply don't care. I wonder why.

Tanthalas

Umm, the same could be said about western RPG fans and JRPGs.

Personally, I like both as they offer me different things.

Zafiro

Hate is a strong word; I for one only play western cRPGs, but I have to say I love The Legend of Dragoon(the first video game rpg I've played) and FF IX wich has such a great atmosphere, almost western if I may say so. The flying ships reminded me of Jules Verne.

Schneidend

Probably because JRPG fans were happily minding their own business, grinding levels and farming for rare ultimate weapons, when western RPG fans walked up and knocked the controllers out of their collective hands.
"Your game lacks prose and a deep, immersive story," accused the western RPG fans, hatred in their eyes.
"We have mechanics AND a novel's worth of dialogue, and all you have are mindless battles. How can you even like that unless you have the mentality of a child?" they derisively and rhetorically asked.
"Who even are you and what are you doing in my house," the JRPG players asked, frightened. "Gah, you're so pretentious and mean to me, I hate you," they growled.

And thus it was...

Roke

Personally I find that JRPGs are not really rpg, not to say that they are bad or anything like that, but they deal mostly with the story than with the role playing aspect of the game, which is what the R and P stand for. Often the player is only a form of delivery man who pushes the PC's between cut scenes and shortly controls them during battles and from the few JRPG's I played, the few dialog choices that do pop up have a small if non existing effect on the plot as a whole and no impact on the side quests at all.

This is just my own opinion on JRPG's and there's probably games out there that can prove me wrong. But its just where I stand.

killy

I love both

DejwoSWK

They usually hate it because they would not be absolutely right,most likely...Do not get me wrong,I like JRPGs,but hardcore fans usually overrate games(FFVII I am looking at you,damn right at you),they brag about how are JRPGs long,over 100 hours or so..but in the end,you will spend 80% of that time mindlessly grinding,same repetitive fights that can still be somehow enjoyable in some titles,but it is not so often to happen.And mechanics are usually the same as they were 10 years ago...that is major problem too...Ok story is usually good and so music is,and also some emotions they can give into games...but when you compare those WRPGs where most of fights are different in at least some minimal details,there is still difference.And you do not have to grind which is big plus for me.Again do not get me wrong,I like FFVI,Persona 3 and Tactics Ogre:Let Us Cling Together(which is bit more strategic rpg,but still made in Japan) really a lot,but I also hate when JRPG die-hard fanboys brag about their games and overrate them...and when WRPG-ers say to them stuff like this they get angry for not having anything to say,but do not admitting..and that is why WRPG-ers often hate them,because of those die-hard fanboys...but there are of course people who like both are more open minded,so it should not be generalized and then hated everything about it..

Talvrae

Personally JRPG bore me to death, the combat syle the grinding, the long borings dialogues who don,t engage you in anyway, and i share @Roke point view on the fact that they arent really RPG, more lie a sort of adventure game

Cheesebelly

I don't know, can't really comment on either party as I myself am more of a strategist than RPGer (despite my deep love for RPGs, I admit that)

Never ever played any JRPG whatsoever. They don't exactly attract my eye, but who am I to judge. It's like judging Twilight before seeing it. Deep inside, it's not THAT bad

Mornmagor

It's not the genre, it's the game.

There are some diamonds among both genres :]

RushAndAPush

I can't wait for Torchlight 2 to be released. One of my most anticipated games of the year besides BG:EE of course.

Talvrae

RushAndAPush said:

I can't wait for Torchlight 2 to be released. One of my most anticipated games of the year besides BG:EE of course.

Again a type of game i can,t call a RPG, Hack and Slash have no Role Playing element at all, it's not stat attributions and an inventory system that make an RPG

Tanthalas

@Talvrae

Games like JRPGs and Diablo have been called RPGs for well over a decade now. I don't really see a point in insisting that they aren't RPGs.

ShapiroKeatsDarkMage

Well, early Final Fantasy games kinda looked like WRPGS.

Talvrae

Tanthalas said:

@Talvrae

Games like JRPGs and Diablo have been called RPGs for well over a decade now. I don't really see a point in insisting that they aren't RPGs.

Not becauses they have been miss named for decades because of lack of better categories that it should continue

lmaoboat

Talvrae said:

Tanthalas said:

@Talvrae

Games like JRPGs and Diablo have been called RPGs for well over a decade now. I don't really see a point in insisting that they aren't RPGs.

Not becauses they have been miss named for decades because of lack of better categories that it should continue

Languages evolve. Words frequently take on meanings different to the one they original had. You don't see people complaining that steam rollers don't have steam engines, do you?

DejwoSWK

ShapiroKeatsDarkMage said:

Well, early Final Fantasy games kinda looked like WRPGS.

Well,kind of..but it has changed a lot with coming of FF IV(FFII as first release in America),there were characters with their own personalities and job classes that could not be changed...which was for good..or so I think,it was not true roleplaying as was said before in this thread,that is true,but it was kind of something new and playing,or maybe watching(because of no way to alter what is happening)interesting story line with RPG-like battle system was,and still is nice..at least in my humble opinion

Roke

Theres a lot of games that get the RPG label slapped on just because it has a leveling system and loot grinding and like @Talvrae said there needs to be a better sorting system. But i think it has to do with the fact that the pioneer RPG didn't have enough space on the old forgotten floppy discs for game play, story and dialog. so dialog was completely out of the question and the story was something simple, like wizard bad, you good you slay wizard!

RushAndAPush

Talvrae said:

RushAndAPush said:

I can't wait for Torchlight 2 to be released. One of my most anticipated games of the year besides BG:EE of course.

Again a type of game i can,t call a RPG, Hack and Slash have no Role Playing element at all, it's not stat attributions and an inventory system that make an RPG

I understand that and you're right, but I can't say that I don't find it fun.

Six

Love them both when done right but Imo western rpg's are more often mislabeled as rpg's.
Diablo don't really have any rpg in it but fine I can live with it since it at least have some story and world interaction but games like Leauge of Legends being called a rpg is just silly.

Kukaracha

Meh, both are very different genres that share the same narratologist approach. I never really paid attention to fanboys who hated one or the other.

In my opinion, most of the production lacks the quality of the gems you can find in both categories. For me, those would be FF VI and VII, and BG 1 and 2.
Quality here is not a matter of genres.

Talvrae

Six said:

Love them both when done right but Imo western rpg's are more often mislabeled as rpg's.
Diablo don't really have any rpg in it but fine I can live with it since it at least have some story and world interaction but games like Leauge of Legends being called a rpg is just silly.

I call thouse Hack & Slash it's the ebst term to discribe them, funnny Diablo was first described as that then sommeone put the RPG label on it and it had stick to it

Thels

They're all CRPGs, including BG, with the emphasis on C. Sure, some games will have a few more options than others, but they are all computer games. In each and every one of them, you are limited to the options provided to you by the programmers.

If you really want to RP, no computer beats gathering a couple of friends and playing a tabletop RPG.

Roke

Thels said:

They're all CRPGs, including BG, with the emphasis on C. Sure, some games will have a few more options than others, but they are all computer games. In each and every one of them, you are limited to the options provided to you by the programmers.

If you really want to RP, no computer beats gathering a couple of friends and playing a tabletop RPG.

True, but you can also sit around that table and just do a dungeon crawl with out a single bit of role playing so it works both ways. Not to mention that not every one can get enough friends together or be comfortable RPing with other people. But thats of topic.

CoM_Solaufein

Who are they?

ShapiroKeatsDarkMage said:

It kinda bugs me.

JRPG fans utterly despise anything related to D&D and western videogames. I wonder why.

ShapiroKeatsDarkMage

CoM_Solaufein said:

Who are they?

ShapiroKeatsDarkMage said:

It kinda bugs me.

JRPG fans utterly despise anything related to D&D and western videogames. I wonder why.

I was writing in general.

Doom972

These are two very different takes of how to make traditional RPGs into video games. One might be certain that one take is right, while the other is wrong.
Personally, I can enjoy both genres as long as the game is good.

If you wish to know more about how these genres came to be and what makes them so different, you might find this video interesting (note that there is a second and third part):
http://extra-credits.net/episodes/western-japanese-rpgs-part-1/

Alderon

I... have never seen a particularly venomous split. From my experiences, you either like one type of RPG or all types. And people don't really care which as long as you don't go on about it to their faces.

Bjjorick

Tanthalas said:

@Talvrae

Games like JRPGs and Diablo have been called RPGs for well over a decade now. I don't really see a point in insisting that they aren't RPGs.

Not becauses they have been miss named for decades because of lack of better categories that it should continue

and this is the answer to OP's question. I've been playing jrpgs and wrpgs for nearly 30 years. The west says that since jrpg's don't have this or that, they're not REALLLY rpgs. japan and jrpgs just keep playing/making the games they love. So what that people love ff7 more then any other game. Most people, like myself, played it when they were a teenager, and it was one of the first, if not THE first mainstream game to be a little more grown up. You can say ff6, but as a kid, it was just another game. When celes went to commit suicide, i knew she would be okay. Why? It's nintendo. But ff7, when aeris died, it simply broke all the rules established all those years playing nintendo. And at the end of the game, the sick satisfaction i got for taking my revenge on seperioth.....the joy i still get from that moment of avenging my aeris......

You're right. Not an rpg. I didn't get into any of the roles of the game at all. plus, i didn't play the game, and it's not a game, so obviously, no possible way that it's an rpg.

spacejaws

Well seeing as wrpg's were derived from being able to roleplay in fantasy settings arn't jrpg's just inspired from being able to assume a role in an anime?

I enjoy the story elements in a lot of JRPG's, it feels like playing a character in a strong novel(the good ones of course) whereas WRPG's are a slight create your own adventure with some good imposed story elements(the goods ones of course). I do feel like good JRPG's have interesting and varied characters that i enjoy trying to equip to the death and i like the gear and differing magic and class systems the have. WRPG's have great characters aswell but many do not have very much that make them unique. BG has alot of great voice acting but for example the old school(and to an extent new) fallouts have companions that i did not give a damn about and were only used as mules and the majority of WRPG's I'd rather solo.

They both have pro's and cons but saying they are not truley rpg's is nitpicking and elitist. What matters is if they are enjoyable, I still think just a fondly of FF2 aquiring Gordon whose stats were a fraction of your weakest party member and beefing him to a death machine as I did finding Gorions letter in the return to Candlekeep.

This feels like arguing the merits of beef and pork. Who cares! They both taste good on a sandwich to me.

Tanthalas

spacejaws said:

Well seeing as wrpg's were derived from being able to roleplay in fantasy settings arn't jrpg's just inspired from being able to assume a role in an anime?

Dragon Quest was inspired by DnD and Final Fantasy was inspired by Dragon Quest.

I've never played the original Dragon Quest, but in Final Fantasy you can clearly see how it drew inspiration from DnD in its monsters and how the spell system functioned.