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Least popular/useful weapon categories?

The idea to ask this question came to me after reading threads on the Short Sword of Mask, and on how much people powergame.

So I simply want to know - what weapon types do you rarely if ever use? Are there any you think are just plain weaker than others? And why?
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Comments

  • canivalbellacanivalbella Member Posts: 9
    There are some great spears for almost every part of BG2 (as the character advances)

    Halcyon --> unicorn one --> impaler --> and so on

    But i rarely have anyone use them

    Unless i edit jaheira to be a 2hd specialist from the start (drop scimitar and sword +shield)
  • I rarely use axes save for the throwing axes on characters that can't use other ranged options. The Axe of Unyielding just doesn't interest me.

    Also never really use Maces apart from the Mace of Disruption against liches.
  • MitchforkMitchfork Member Posts: 390
    Clubs got no love in BG1. Absolutely no enchantments (except for the +3 vs. Unnatural Creatures club that was in the game files but nowhere in the game). BGEE added three magical clubs though, and one of them is +2, so they're at least good if nothing special.

    The club selection in BG2 is pretty wanting as well, no neat/unique enchantments except the Club of Detonation which is a total novelty.
  • mjsmjs Member Posts: 742
    Mitchfork said:

    Clubs got no love in BG1. Absolutely no enchantments (except for the +3 vs. Unnatural Creatures club that was in the game files but nowhere in the game). BGEE added three magical clubs though, and one of them is +2, so they're at least good if nothing special.

    The club selection in BG2 is pretty wanting as well, no neat/unique enchantments except the Club of Detonation which is a total novelty.

    gnasher (+2 damage per round) and blackblood (+3 acid damage) are pretty neat
  • PantalionPantalion Member Posts: 2,137
    For Charnames in BG2?

    Axes
    Bastard Swords
    Clubs
    Crossbows
    Daggers
    Darts (unless a pure Mage)
    Halberds
    Katanas
    Longbows
    Maces
    Short Swords
    Spears

    Axes work better for Korgan, and in the end are largely unremarkable.
    Bastard Swords have a single great weapon and a series of largely situational ones.
    Clubs are just maces without style.
    Crossbows are vastly inferior to Slings, and vastly more expensive to boot.
    Daggers - Are pretty terrible except for Firetooth, especially since dagger strength is bugged now. The best dagger is +5 with 5% chances of damage procs and 15% chance for invisible? This is compared to 25 Strength, +5 Electrical and instant death against an array of enemies, always, or even +1 attack? Daggers cannot compare to most other bladed weapons.
    Darts are for mages.
    Halberds are generally mediocre, asides from the Dragon's Breath, which is late game.
    Katanas have the Celestial Fury and Hindo's Doom. I don't care for the former, because I consider it overpowered and useless against the nastier creatures, and you don't need proficiency to offhand Hindo's for some MR.
    Longbows are utterly terrible compared to Shortbows.
    Maces are just clubs with style. If it weren't for the Stupefier I'd never even have Mace proficiency in BG1.
    Short Swords - You don't have to be proficient with Kundane to get an attack from it, and the rest are pretty worthless.
    Spears have two +4 or better weapons. Ixil's Spike prevents Improved Haste, the Spear of Withering is wholly unremarkable. Ixil's Nail is even worse than unremarkable.

    Generally there are a vast range of weapons with viable and great secondary abilities, the above don't really have
  • The Club of Detonation is just oozing with style ;)
  • canivalbellacanivalbella Member Posts: 9
    i always liked clubs. Pure mage killing action in BG2 (gnasher and black blood).

    I also liked the idea of being a club grandmaster --> break off a tree branch a own most idiot challengers with it
  • nanonano Member Posts: 1,632
    Kaigen said:

    The Club of Detonation is just oozing with style ;)

    Maybe even bursting with style :)

    It does great damage too and the flame effect looks cool. Shame that so many things resist fire.
  • PantalionPantalion Member Posts: 2,137
    Kaigen said:

    The Club of Detonation is just oozing with style ;)

    True, it's got a neat gimmick, but it's still a +3 weapon if I recall. Perhaps I'm being a little harsh about not having anything to handle a Demilich or Mantle, but without some additional benefit to put it into your offhand, you may as well be using a shield, and I find that to be morally offensive.
  • DrHappyAngryDrHappyAngry Member Posts: 1,577
    There are some really decent Halberds, actually. Like Blackmist, the Wave Blade and Ravager. Axe of unyielding is nice, just that you don't get the +5 version till TOB. It's really a shame a lot of weapons didn't get a +4 or better in SOA + Watcher's keep, as there are fights you need a +4 or better weapon to win. Bastard Swords seem to get the shaft across both games. I generally only give a character a single point in it for werewolf island, and that's about the only time you'll ever touch them.

    Of course it seems like every other category gets screwed compared to Carsomyr. Especially with how early you can get it. ;)

    I gotta admit, this is one of the things NWN2 really had over the BG series. Implementing a crafting system insured no matter what funky weapon you specialized in, you could get a sweet one by making it yourself.
  • HandofTyrHandofTyr Member Posts: 106
    Yeah, bastard swords kinda suck. Foebane is sweet, but the middle strength bastard swords aren't available until late in SoA, so your basically have nothing for most of the game. Not that it would save the weapon class, but I always wondered why daystar is a long sword. Fairly certain the sun sword is a bastard sword by PnP.

    I think the issue with spears is that two-handed swords and halberds give a lot of competition, even though there are some very good spears. Also the smaller damage die probably plays into it, even if the difference isn't that big in the grand scheme.

    Darts get the hardest shaft though. Best one is +3, doesn't do anything either if I remember.
  • kryptixkryptix Member Posts: 741
    I think there's a dart that is +3 and 40 points of poison damage in very limited amounts but specializing in a limited weapon seems like a waste...
  • GamingFreakGamingFreak Member Posts: 639
    Spears and Darts seem to be the black sheep of the weapons in the game; both have particularly good weapons associated with them, but there's generally something in a similar category that's usually better. For example, Jaheira can use spears if she chooses... BUT, there's a good list of more awesome quarterstaffs to utilize, a couple of them are exclusive to druids, even.
  • nanonano Member Posts: 1,632
    Impaler does a crazy amount of damage, too bad it's +3. I wish Cespenar could upgrade that one. Who needs Ixil's Spike?

    Or even better, if you get Ixil's Spike, Impaler and the Spear of Withering you can combine them into a trident >:D
  • RealReal Member Posts: 68

    i always liked clubs. Pure mage killing action in BG2 (gnasher and black blood).

    I also liked the idea of being a club grandmaster --> break off a tree branch a own most idiot challengers with it

    That's an interesting style of play and makes a good point. Just because some weapon styles may be weaker than others, it doesn't make it unviable or unenjoyable to use, especially from an RP perspective. A warrior doing whirlwind wielding blackblood and a shield will also be deadly by its own right. And Watcher's Keep and ToB pretty much adds a 'final ultimate version' for each weapon type, you won't be gimped too badly either way.
  • SjerrieSjerrie Member Posts: 1,235
    My last game had my fighter/mage with Dakkon Zerth's blade in the off-hand till I switched it out for an upgraded Hindo's Doom. Situational weapons in the main hand, but mostly Daystar, Flail of Ages and eventually Celestial Fury (the temptation was just too great).

    Once I handed Carsomyr from Keldorn to Mazzy she never put that down, apart from the occasional shot from Gesen's bow. Jaheira was mostly wielding various clubs in combination with an appropriate shield until I got Spectral Brand. Minsc wielded the Silver Blade almost exclusively, apart from the occasional halberd as the situation called for it. Neera used staves and darts, and was eventually pretty badass with the Staff of the Ram. Short swords and shortbows on Imoen.

    This is a pretty accurate description of a lot of my playthroughs. Apart from the Flail of Ages I never use flails much, clubs aren't really that viable for late-game imho though I do like @canivalbella 's RP idea. The only great mace I can think of is the mace of disruption. The Runehammer is nice, but I haven't gotten around to use a hammer-wielder yet, and the Crom Faeyr gets less interesting when you've found a few strength belts. Daggers I feel are just a mage's last resort...*braces for comments* My next character (a druid) will be wielding mainly spears, which is a first for me. Any ideas on making this viable/interesting?
  • bbearbbear Member Posts: 1,180
    According to @Blackraven‌ and this thread:

    http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/BG2/SpellsReference/ImmunityItems.htm

    Arbane+2 is a decent shortsword you can get very early in BG2. It's grants all the abilities of Free Action except Slow and Haste despite the weapon description of protection against Hold Person only. This ability alone gives short sword a good contender in a solo no-reload game.
  • BlackravenBlackraven Member Posts: 3,486
    edited March 2014
    bbear said:

    According to @Blackraven‌ and this thread:

    http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/BG2/SpellsReference/ImmunityItems.htm

    Arbane+2 is a decent shortsword you can get very early in BG2. It's grants all the abilities of Free Action except Slow and Haste despite the weapon description of protection against Hold Person only. This ability alone gives short sword a good contender in a solo no-reload game.

    Exactly, complete Free Action with no speed restrictions. Allows you to wield the sword while wearing the Boots of Speed. Very recommendable. Short swords may be one of the least popular weapon choices, I wouldn't consider it one of the least useful ones.
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    edited March 2014
    Darts are amazing when you look at the darts of stunning/wounding. They are some of the most powerful weapons you can get in BG1 and they can still put down people in BG2. You can also get a returning dart (+3) from the first level of watchers keep, it's possible to get it without having to fight anyone. It doesn't deal a lot of damage but it's quick, got many APR and it will interrupt casters. Great weapon in the hands of a mage. Another good thing with darts is that you don't need more than * into the category to be efficient with the Dart of Stunning/Wounding. I sometimes place * into darts with my fighters/paladins/rangers just so that i can use those darts.

    You can get the short sword of mask (+4) for a decent price from the shop at watchers keep, you'll be able to upgrade it later to get it to +5 and grant you immune to level drain. Short swords aren't bad, they are just few and far between.

    I don't think any weapon is useless, but i would go for spear or club. The Impaler spear is really nice and so is the blackblood (?) club that you can get in trademeet, but one weapon does not save an entire category.
  • BlackravenBlackraven Member Posts: 3,486
    SionIV said:

    Darts are amazing when you look at the darts of stunning/wounding. They are some of the most powerful weapons you can get in BG1 and they can still put down people in BG2. You can also get a returning dart (+3) from the first level of watchers keep, it's possible to get it without having to fight anyone. It doesn't deal a lot of damage but it's quick, got many APR and it will interrupt casters. Great weapon in the hands of a mage.

    You can get the short sword of mask (+4) for a decent price from the shop at watchers keep, you'll be able to upgrade it later to get it to +5 and grant you immune to level drain. Short swords aren't bad, they are just few and far between.

    I don't think any weapon is useless, but i would go for spear or club. The Impaler spear is really nice and so is the blackblood (?) club that you can get in trademeet, but one weapon does not save an entire category.

    I think Darts and Short Swords are simply underrated. Darts are amongst the best weapons (if not THE best) for interrupting spellcasterss, and some of the special darts SionIV mentions are often outright fatal.
    The disadvantage with Short Swords isn't a lack of good ones (because there are various good short swords), but rather the fact that they do piercing damage, which generally isn't as good as the slashing damage and crushing damage most other melee weapons inflict.

    My vote would go to Bastard Swords. There are hardly any really good ones until TOB. I think they really pale when compared to other large swords, such as longswords, 2h-swords, scimitars, and also compared to blunt weapons such as warhammers, flails, and even maces.
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    edited March 2014

    SionIV said:

    Darts are amazing when you look at the darts of stunning/wounding. They are some of the most powerful weapons you can get in BG1 and they can still put down people in BG2. You can also get a returning dart (+3) from the first level of watchers keep, it's possible to get it without having to fight anyone. It doesn't deal a lot of damage but it's quick, got many APR and it will interrupt casters. Great weapon in the hands of a mage.

    You can get the short sword of mask (+4) for a decent price from the shop at watchers keep, you'll be able to upgrade it later to get it to +5 and grant you immune to level drain. Short swords aren't bad, they are just few and far between.

    I don't think any weapon is useless, but i would go for spear or club. The Impaler spear is really nice and so is the blackblood (?) club that you can get in trademeet, but one weapon does not save an entire category.

    I think Darts and Short Swords are simply underrated. Darts are amongst the best weapons (if not THE best) for interrupting spellcasterss, and some of the special darts SionIV mentions are often outright fatal.
    The disadvantage with Short Swords isn't a lack of good ones (because there are various good short swords), but rather the fact that they do piercing damage, which generally isn't as good as the slashing damage and crushing damage most other melee weapons inflict.

    My vote would go to Bastard Swords. There are hardly any really good ones until TOB. I think they really pale when compared to other large swords, such as longswords, 2h-swords, scimitars, and also compared to blunt weapons such as warhammers, flails, and even maces.
    I have to disagree with the Bastard Swords part. You'll very easily get Foebane +3 on the first level of watchers keep, and the purifier +4 (paladin only) on the third level. None of those are very hard to get, the Foebane can be gotten with a party straight out of Irenicus Prison. The purifier is a bit harder to get but still doable pretty early, and it's an amazing weapon for a paladin.

    It's actually much easier and faster to get the Purifier than Carsomyr. And you'll also get the head for FoA +4 on the way to getting the purifier, so i'll pick dual wielding FoA (+3/+4) and Purifier (+4) over using carsomyr.

    Post edited by SionIV on
  • BlackravenBlackraven Member Posts: 3,486
    SionIV said:



    I have to disagree with the Bastard Swords part. You'll very easily get Foebane +3 on the first level of watchers keep, and the purifier +4 (paladin only) on the third level. None of those are very hard to get, the Foebane can be gotten with a party straight out of Irenicus Prison. The purifier is a bit harder to get but still doable pretty early, and it's an amazing weapon for a paladin.

    It's actually much easier and faster to get the Purifier than Carsomyr. And you'll also get the head for FoA +4 on the way to getting the purifier, so i'll pick dual wielding FoA (+3/+4) and Purifier (+4) over using carsomyr.

    Ok, I admit that Foebane +3 is a relatively good weapon (no equipped benefits but great for damage dealing against certain foes).
    Maybe I'm too much of a chicken to do Watcher's Keep early on but I've always considered the Purifier a late SoA weapon, the usefulness of which is severely limited by the class-restriction (most people will only use it if they have more than one paladin in their party; otherwise Carsomy is likely to prevail).
    In BG1 there are are only two 'special' bastard swords, both of which have only situational uses.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,316

    bbear said:

    According to @Blackraven‌ and this thread:

    http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/BG2/SpellsReference/ImmunityItems.htm

    Arbane+2 is a decent shortsword you can get very early in BG2. It's grants all the abilities of Free Action except Slow and Haste despite the weapon description of protection against Hold Person only. This ability alone gives short sword a good contender in a solo no-reload game.

    Exactly, complete Free Action with no speed restrictions. Allows you to wield the sword while wearing the Boots of Speed. Very recommendable. Short swords may be one of the least popular weapon choices, I wouldn't consider it one of the least useful ones.
    I can't speak for what it does in the original but in BG2EE it just gives you immunity to hold. You can still be affected by Web, Slow, Entangle, and anything else Free Action would otherwise protect you from.
  • BlackravenBlackraven Member Posts: 3,486
    elminster said:

    bbear said:

    According to @Blackraven‌ and this thread:

    http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/BG2/SpellsReference/ImmunityItems.htm

    Arbane+2 is a decent shortsword you can get very early in BG2. It's grants all the abilities of Free Action except Slow and Haste despite the weapon description of protection against Hold Person only. This ability alone gives short sword a good contender in a solo no-reload game.

    Exactly, complete Free Action with no speed restrictions. Allows you to wield the sword while wearing the Boots of Speed. Very recommendable. Short swords may be one of the least popular weapon choices, I wouldn't consider it one of the least useful ones.
    I can't speak for what it does in the original but in BG2EE it just gives you immunity to hold. You can still be affected by Web, Slow, Entangle, and anything else Free Action would otherwise protect you from.
    Ah that's a shame. It takes takes away much of the Sword's usefulness...
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,316
    edited March 2014

    SionIV said:



    I have to disagree with the Bastard Swords part. You'll very easily get Foebane +3 on the first level of watchers keep, and the purifier +4 (paladin only) on the third level. None of those are very hard to get, the Foebane can be gotten with a party straight out of Irenicus Prison. The purifier is a bit harder to get but still doable pretty early, and it's an amazing weapon for a paladin.

    It's actually much easier and faster to get the Purifier than Carsomyr. And you'll also get the head for FoA +4 on the way to getting the purifier, so i'll pick dual wielding FoA (+3/+4) and Purifier (+4) over using carsomyr.

    Ok, I admit that Foebane +3 is a relatively good weapon (no equipped benefits but great for damage dealing against certain foes).
    Maybe I'm too much of a chicken to do Watcher's Keep early on but I've always considered the Purifier a late SoA weapon, the usefulness of which is severely limited by the class-restriction (most people will only use it if they have more than one paladin in their party; otherwise Carsomy is likely to prevail).
    In BG1 there are are only two 'special' bastard swords, both of which have only situational uses.
    Yea the one thing about Foebane that is worth noting is that it doesn't give a bonus that is as broad as its description implies. The enemies it does give a bonus to are Lycanthropes, Demonic, Undead, Rakshasa, and Dopplegangers. Even though they are extraplanar it doesn't give any bonus damage against planetar's, elementals, genies/djinni, mephits, or githyanki (and basically anything else not mentioned but relevant).
  • BlackravenBlackraven Member Posts: 3,486
    @elminster Again a bit of a disappointment, thanks for pointing this out!
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,316
    edited March 2014
    I put in an internal request for either the description to be changed to reflect what it actually gives benefits towards or to be given the benefits that its description suggests it should have (namely against any extraplanar beings). That was a few months ago so we will see if it ever gets addressed.

    Ohh and for the record what I said (about what it does extra damage to) applies to both version of Foebane.
  • vangoatvangoat Member Posts: 212
    edited March 2014
    Slings. While they're decent in BG1, they just seem unsatisfying to me. Unless I'm playing a halfling or something.

    People say put them on mages, but my mages are there to cast spells, not try to shoot things with lousy damage, 1APR and a terrible thac0.

    Also quarterstaves are a bit underrated. People usually just stick them on mages, but they're actually decent for fighters too. You can get the Staff of Rynn super early in BG2 which is +4, and the staff of striking does wicked damage.
  • dustbubsydustbubsy Member Posts: 249
    I think clubs are awesome, really they're the only bludgeoning option for a swashbuckler for most of the game. I'm a sucker for blunt weapons generally.

    The only weapon I haven't utilised is the spear. Maybe it's how they look. Halberds look deadly, staves are unprepossessing but in a cool way, but the spear just looks dorky to me.
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