I don't like clubs because I don't have any cavemen in my party
I have also never really used halberds until this week.. I don't really know why, I just never had the opportunity. I'm now taking Kivan since a semi-working version of the BG1NPC Project is finally working, and he will be my switch hitter (longbow/halberd)
I never really use crossbows either, just because bows seem more stylish. Yet in aforementioned game, my PC is now using them.
Short swords are weak damage dealers, but I do use Kundane. I'm not a big fan of maces, since flails are my favorite weapon and cover most of my cleric classes (except Aerie).
Spears are also rare in my games, but @nano 's idea would convert me in a second
Slings. While they're decent in BG1, they just seem unsatisfying to me. Unless I'm playing a halfling or something.
People say put them on mages, but my mages are there to cast spells, not try to shoot things with lousy damage, 1APR and a terrible thac0.
Also quarterstaves are a bit underrated. People usually just stick them on mages, but they're actually decent for fighters too. You can get the Staff of Rynn super early in BG2 which is +4, and the staff of striking does wicked damage.
Slings are my favorite ranged weapon.
- You'll be able to get a strength bonus while using them. - You can equip a shield while using your sling. - Every single class in the game can use slings. - You can get some very powerful (+4/+5) very early on in BG2. - Slings are usually very cheap.
Would also like to mention slings are the most powerful ranged weapon when it comes to fights where it's ranged vs ranged. When you use ranged weapons you'll end up standing at the back line with the only danger to your character being other ranged weapons and magic. Using a sling will let you equip a large shield (+2AC vs missile) and you'll get an additional +2/+4 if you put points into Sword and Shield.
Every single one of my clerics use slings and with * in sword and shield style they have +4 AC against ranged weapons from just using a normal large shield, making them much more survivable while on the back line. My dwarf fighter/cleric also used a sling and had ** in sword and shield, giving him +6 AC vs missile weapons the moment he put on a large shield.
Crossbow would be my second favorite ranged weapon.
Never used axe, spear, bastard sword, long sword, short sword, dagger and club. And never, ever, mace. Especially the mace, i particularly don't like it. Even it's shape and appearance. Even that it is the cleric signature one. Warhammers and Flails are way better to it.
Also, i always prefer strong and/or exotic weaponry. Staff, 2H sword, halberd, katana, scimitar, warhammer, flail, these are my favorite ones!
Most weapon categories have at least one really good representative (one that is +5 and causes some debilitating effect on targets instead of damage), but IMO daggers and darts are badly short-changed. Longbows are also meh.
@SionIV, my only problem with slings is APR. A non-warrior has one APR with slings as opposed to two with bows (three with Tuigan short bow) and three with darts. So for damage dealing while being reasonably well protected with a shield, slings are fine. But I like using ranged attacks for spell disruption, and therefore hardly use slings, except if I have no other choice.
@SionIV, my only problem with slings is APR. A non-warrior has one APR with slings as opposed to two with bows (three with Tuigan short bow) and three with darts. So for damage dealing while being reasonably well protected with a shield, slings are fine. But I like using ranged attacks for spell disruption, and therefore hardly use slings, except if I have no other choice.
I wouldn't use a sling on a pure class Thief or Bard. But for pretty much every other class including a fighter i would go with a sling.
Cleric - Sling Mage - Darts (if I have two mages, the second mage might get Sling or a (returning) Throwing Dagger) Rogue - Short bow (or darts) Bard - Cross bow (though they might as well use Short bows for APR) Fighter - Depends Druid - Darts
I haven't done the math, so your strategy may well be the wiser in terms of damage output, but I'm obsessed with APR I'm afraid (both for ranged and for melee attacks).
Cleric - Sling Mage - Darts (if I have two mages, the second mage might get Sling or a (returning) Throwing Dagger) Rogue - Short bow (or darts) Bard - Cross bow (though they might as well use Short bows for APR) Fighter - Depends Druid - Darts
I haven't done the math, so your strategy may well be the wiser in terms of damage output, but I'm obsessed with APR I'm afraid (both for ranged and for melee attacks).
Anyone that can use Firetooth should do so, it's by far the most powerful ranged weapon in the entire game. It's also pretty sweet that you can get it out of Irenicus Prison without having to fight anyone for only 11 000 - 13 000 gold.
You'll deal more damage with a sling than you do with darts. I would probably rate darts a little bit higher in BG1 but once you hit BG2 it's either sling or throwing dagger (the unique ones).
It's also much easier to get hold of a good sling than dart. I can only think of one good Dart in BG2 and that's the +3 from watcher's keep level 1 and it really isn't that good.
Anyone that can use Firetooth should do so, it's by far the most powerful ranged weapon in the entire game. It's also pretty sweet that you can get it out of Irenicus Prison without having to fight anyone for only 11 000 - 13 000 gold.
You'll deal more damage with a sling than you do with darts. I would probably rate darts a little bit higher in BG1 but once you hit BG2 it's either sling or throwing dagger (the unique ones).
It's also much easier to get hold of a good sling than dart. I can only think of one good Dart in BG2 and that's the +3 from watcher's keep level 1 and it really isn't that good.
You're right that my argument for darts may convince less for BG2, but then I think ranged attacks become less important overall in BG2 as compared to BG1. Warrior characters gain more and more APR (through weapon specialization, levelling up, speed weapons), so that melee becomes more viable. And spellcasters get so many spells that I have them casting most of the time rather than using their ranged weapons. So in BG2 I use ranged weapons "just in case" I need them, but I find I never really do. It's true that there aren't many good darts in BG2. (With the Rogue Rebalancing mod you can get another reasonably good one, but I'm aware not everyone uses that mod.) Thus I start varying more, and my division of weapon proficiencies could look soemthing like this:
Quarterstaves may also be used for backstabbing, to even deadlier effect. Some players don't like the concept of backstabbing with a staff though.
I thought it was only with one-handed! By the gods! A high-level assassin wielding the Staff of the Ram is now forming in my mind! *drool* But yeah, the concept does feel a bit off to me too... Clubbing someone on the back of the head/neck though...
Edit: a shadowdancer might be more effective than this assassin in a protracted fight.
Quarterstaves may also be used for backstabbing, to even deadlier effect. Some players don't like the concept of backstabbing with a staff though.
I thought it was only with one-handed! By the gods! A high-level assassin wielding the Staff of the Ram is now forming in my mind! *drool* But yeah, the concept does feel a bit off to me too... Clubbing someone on the back of the head/neck though...
Edit: a shadowdancer might be more effective than this assassin in a protracted fight.
I agree with you on the Assassin, I'm not too fond of staves for Assassins (as opposed to clubs), but that's a matter of taste.
A Shadowdancer with a staff could be interesting though. They aren't that backstabby. Could make for an interesting concept.
@Blackraven The main reason why I *think* the shadowdancer may be more useful in a protracted fight in this case would be something like this:
Shadowdancer creeps up to the baddest mage among the enemies (while party "hides" just out of range) and whacks him. Good chance of backstab insta-kill. Party enters the fray, shadowdancer hides in plain sight, and backstabs the next baddie. Rinse & repeat.
The assassin has a higher individual damage potential in the long run of course, but needs to duck around a corner somewhere to re-hide and then come back. And with the Staff of the Ram that extra damage might not even be needed. Would Improved invisibility solve the re-hiding problem?
In the case of assassins with staves, in my mind I see a sullen, loner half-orc whose usual 'disguise' is the old man routine. Simple robe, walking stick. He becomes very proficient with that walking stick simply because it is the closest thing at hand, literally, and while he likes it or not he finds out he has a talent for killing. I think I just made my next Charname. Might even put him in my mod, too. :-)
@Blackraven The main reason why I *think* the shadowdancer may be more useful in a protracted fight in this case would be something like this:
Shadowdancer creeps up to the baddest mage among the enemies (while party "hides" just out of range) and whacks him. Good chance of backstab insta-kill. Party enters the fray, shadowdancer hides in plain sight, and backstabs the next baddie. Rinse & repeat.
The assassin has a higher individual damage potential in the long run of course, but needs to duck around a corner somewhere to re-hide and then come back. And with the Staff of the Ram that extra damage might not even be needed. Would Improved invisibility solve the re-hiding problem?
In the case of assassins with staves, in my mind I see a sullen, loner half-orc whose usual 'disguise' is the old man routine. Simple robe, walking stick. He becomes very proficient with that walking stick simply because it is the closest thing at hand, literally, and while he likes it or not he finds out he has a talent for killing. I think I just made my next Charname. Might even put him in my mod, too. :-)
Sorry this went a bit off-topic.
A brief reply (because it's indeed a bit off-topic):
I think I underestimated the Shadowdancer a bit, in spite of their Hide in Plain Sight. An assassin with Improved Inivisibility isn't the same thing : enemies will see you after you first attacked under improved invisibility, so for a second backstab you'd have to hide in shadows again. Improved invisibility does prevent enemy casters from targeting you with their spells (except for AoE spells).
I agree on the "old man front" for the staff-wielding backstabber. I considered it for my halfling cleric/thief but he was too young and agile to pull that off.
I have to disagree with the Bastard Swords part. You'll very easily get Foebane +3 on the first level of watchers keep, and the purifier +4 (paladin only) on the third level. None of those are very hard to get, the Foebane can be gotten with a party straight out of Irenicus Prison. The purifier is a bit harder to get but still doable pretty early, and it's an amazing weapon for a paladin.
It's actually much easier and faster to get the Purifier than Carsomyr. And you'll also get the head for FoA +4 on the way to getting the purifier, so i'll pick dual wielding FoA (+3/+4) and Purifier (+4) over using carsomyr.
Ok, I admit that Foebane +3 is a relatively good weapon (no equipped benefits but great for damage dealing against certain foes). Maybe I'm too much of a chicken to do Watcher's Keep early on but I've always considered the Purifier a late SoA weapon, the usefulness of which is severely limited by the class-restriction (most people will only use it if they have more than one paladin in their party; otherwise Carsomy is likely to prevail). In BG1 there are are only two 'special' bastard swords, both of which have only situational uses.
Yea the one thing about Foebane that is worth noting is that it doesn't give a bonus that is as broad as its description implies. The enemies it does give a bonus to are Lycanthropes, Demonic, Undead, Rakshasa, and Dopplegangers. Even though they are extraplanar it doesn't give any bonus damage against planetar's, elementals, genies/djinni, mephits, or githyanki (and basically anything else not mentioned but relevant).
Just figured I'd give people a heads up. I used Near Infinity to throw together a few corrections for Foebane. So now it should give bonus damage to a greater variety of creatures. You can check it out here.
Comments
I have also never really used halberds until this week.. I don't really know why, I just never had the opportunity. I'm now taking Kivan since a semi-working version of the BG1NPC Project is finally working, and he will be my switch hitter (longbow/halberd)
I never really use crossbows either, just because bows seem more stylish. Yet in aforementioned game, my PC is now using them.
Short swords are weak damage dealers, but I do use Kundane. I'm not a big fan of maces, since flails are my favorite weapon and cover most of my cleric classes (except Aerie).
Spears are also rare in my games, but @nano 's idea would convert me in a second I want this so bad
- You'll be able to get a strength bonus while using them.
- You can equip a shield while using your sling.
- Every single class in the game can use slings.
- You can get some very powerful (+4/+5) very early on in BG2.
- Slings are usually very cheap.
Would also like to mention slings are the most powerful ranged weapon when it comes to fights where it's ranged vs ranged. When you use ranged weapons you'll end up standing at the back line with the only danger to your character being other ranged weapons and magic. Using a sling will let you equip a large shield (+2AC vs missile) and you'll get an additional +2/+4 if you put points into Sword and Shield.
Every single one of my clerics use slings and with * in sword and shield style they have +4 AC against ranged weapons from just using a normal large shield, making them much more survivable while on the back line. My dwarf fighter/cleric also used a sling and had ** in sword and shield, giving him +6 AC vs missile weapons the moment he put on a large shield.
Crossbow would be my second favorite ranged weapon.
Also, i always prefer strong and/or exotic weaponry. Staff, 2H sword, halberd, katana, scimitar, warhammer, flail, these are my favorite ones!
So for damage dealing while being reasonably well protected with a shield, slings are fine. But I like using ranged attacks for spell disruption, and therefore hardly use slings, except if I have no other choice.
Cleric - Sling
Mage - Sling / Dart
Rogue - Short bow
Bard -> Cross bow
Fighter -> Sling / Cross bow
Druid -> Sling
Cleric - Sling
Mage - Darts (if I have two mages, the second mage might get Sling or a (returning) Throwing Dagger)
Rogue - Short bow (or darts)
Bard - Cross bow (though they might as well use Short bows for APR)
Fighter - Depends
Druid - Darts
I haven't done the math, so your strategy may well be the wiser in terms of damage output, but I'm obsessed with APR I'm afraid (both for ranged and for melee attacks).
You'll deal more damage with a sling than you do with darts. I would probably rate darts a little bit higher in BG1 but once you hit BG2 it's either sling or throwing dagger (the unique ones).
It's also much easier to get hold of a good sling than dart. I can only think of one good Dart in BG2 and that's the +3 from watcher's keep level 1 and it really isn't that good.
So in BG2 I use ranged weapons "just in case" I need them, but I find I never really do. It's true that there aren't many good darts in BG2. (With the Rogue Rebalancing mod you can get another reasonably good one, but I'm aware not everyone uses that mod.) Thus I start varying more, and my division of weapon proficiencies could look soemthing like this:
Warrior: Bow/Crossbow/Sling
Cleric: Sling
Thief: Short bow
Mage: Throwing Dagger/Dart
Druid: Dart
And correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't clubs the only blunt backstab weapon?
Some players don't like the concept of backstabbing with a staff though.
Edit: a shadowdancer might be more effective than this assassin in a protracted fight.
A Shadowdancer with a staff could be interesting though. They aren't that backstabby. Could make for an interesting concept.
Shadowdancer creeps up to the baddest mage among the enemies (while party "hides" just out of range) and whacks him. Good chance of backstab insta-kill. Party enters the fray, shadowdancer hides in plain sight, and backstabs the next baddie. Rinse & repeat.
The assassin has a higher individual damage potential in the long run of course, but needs to duck around a corner somewhere to re-hide and then come back. And with the Staff of the Ram that extra damage might not even be needed. Would Improved invisibility solve the re-hiding problem?
In the case of assassins with staves, in my mind I see a sullen, loner half-orc whose usual 'disguise' is the old man routine. Simple robe, walking stick. He becomes very proficient with that walking stick simply because it is the closest thing at hand, literally, and while he likes it or not he finds out he has a talent for killing. I think I just made my next Charname. Might even put him in my mod, too. :-)
Sorry this went a bit off-topic.
I think I underestimated the Shadowdancer a bit, in spite of their Hide in Plain Sight. An assassin with Improved Inivisibility isn't the same thing : enemies will see you after you first attacked under improved invisibility, so for a second backstab you'd have to hide in shadows again. Improved invisibility does prevent enemy casters from targeting you with their spells (except for AoE spells).
I agree on the "old man front" for the staff-wielding backstabber. I considered it for my halfling cleric/thief but he was too young and agile to pull that off.
forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/31391/foebane-3-and-5-improvement-mod