Dual Wielding: Greater Whirlwind Attack vs. Improved Haste.
serialthrilla
Member Posts: 26
I'm trying to decide which is better for my PC (dual wielding blackguard). He can either take Greater Whirlwind multiple times or rely on Improved Haste via special equipment/mages casting it on him in the party.
Greater Whirlwind HLA
+ sets attacks per round to 10 without the need for Belm/Kundane (allows the use of Defender of East Haven in the offhand for some juicy resistances)
- very short duration (1 round)
Improved Haste Spell
+ much longer duration
+ doubles number of attacks
- requires Belm/Kundane in the offhand to reach 10 attacks per round
Which do you prefer on your fighters?
Greater Whirlwind HLA
+ sets attacks per round to 10 without the need for Belm/Kundane (allows the use of Defender of East Haven in the offhand for some juicy resistances)
- very short duration (1 round)
Improved Haste Spell
+ much longer duration
+ doubles number of attacks
- requires Belm/Kundane in the offhand to reach 10 attacks per round
Which do you prefer on your fighters?
1
Comments
Also you can use crit strike which is super cool
As for the "requires Belm/Kundane" part, that's not really specific to GWW. You should be using it regardless. +1 APR is the best your offhand can give you, the only thing I'd even consider as an alternative would be Crom Faeyr on low STR characters, or *maybe* Equalizer in some scenarios. For the vast majority of cases, though, Belm & Co. will be by far the best offhand choices, regardless of GWW or IH.
That being said, these distinctions are often barely noticeable for most people. If you don't play at the high end of the difficulty spectrum (lots of mods), a little bit of extra damage will not even be noticeable. You can literally finish the vanilla game without leveling up, basically half naked; a bit more APR here or there aren't really going to matter. Play what you find coolest, what you find most convenient, what you LIKE.
Of course, if you *do* play with a higher difficulty setup (and I do recommend trying it, SCS should really be *the* go-to mod) then you may want to go with the more efficient option, i.e. Improved Haste. Wailing on a dragon has never been more fun! Interesting example, by the way, those dragons: they regularly use Wing Buffet to knock your people all over the room. Not only does that potentially waste GWW (since it lasts only one round, bad timing might screw you over), it also showcases Improved Haste's movement speed increase in running back into the fight more quickly. Just an example, of course!
Incidentally, does Spell Deflection still prevent Wing Buffet?
GWW is good for characters using only one weapon, as it gives them 10 APR no matter what. It's less of a boon for dual-wielders.
With GWW, the optimal play is to unequip your offhand entirely for the duration; or to use an offhand with substantial stat buffs (like Crom Faeyr or Angurvadal+5); or to use a 2h weapon for the duration.
Also, @Pantalion is definitely correct in that Critical Strike as a GWW alternative is a very powerful choice, particularly when combined with IH. You can't really use it in conjunction with GWW, since they not only both share a HLA slot (you can pick one or the other, limiting their use) but also only last one round, meaning you can't activate both at the same time. The same is true, to a degree, for things like Kai.
Keep in mind that Critical Strike has the somewhat "hidden" bonus of making all your attacks hit automatically (since a 20 is a hit regardless of thac0/AC), even if the enemy is immune to the extra damage of critical hits. Combined with IH this is often enough of a reason to make it better than GWW. There's several relevant enemies that *can* be critically hit, too - my favorite is eradicating whole legions of Beholders with my 5 APR Archer + IH and CS.
I got Gaxx ring and therefor a few improved haste. Should i use a mix of GWW and CS?
Paladin: 10 Attacks with GWW.
If you're facing something with Stone Skin, in need of a lot of dispelling, or Mirror Images, GWW is probably your best bet. If you're not, then you're comparing x10 Damage guaranteed versus x10 Damage with a 5% miss chance minimum, and a 10% x2 damage chance.
In the end, it depends on your miss chance versus their AC. If you hit on a 2+, then GWW with 2HF style is mathematically slightly better in a single round, but Improved Haste lasts longer. If you hit on a 3+ it's equal, 4+ it's mathematically worse, with the gambler's chance of doing better.
...Unless the dual-wielder is a Kensai and the 2-hander isn't, in which case lolkensaiwins is the only thing I can say regarding that.