Someone please teach me how to use a high-level mage!

booinyoureyes

Or send me to a guide. I am horrible with mages, though I often have multiple in my party. I usually just stoneskin/mirror image myself, magic missile, fireball, skull trap, horrid wilt and then comet everything I see like a doofus, use a couple sequencers, and hope for the best. It works but I feel like I'm missing out on a lot (barely even use time trap, lol)

People seem to live by things like polymorph self, tensers transformation, etc. I didn't even use improved acuity that much. I don't really know when/how to use all the non-direct-damage spells, so if someone can just make some suggestions for those I'd greatly appreciate it!

Thanks guys!

SpaceInvader

Tenser Transformation has little to no sense (maybe except...fun?) to be used on a pure, high level mage. No matter for what situation.

KidCarnival

If you have multiple mages in your party - focus one on debuffing/dispelling enemy defenses; the other on crowd control. It would probably help to have a specific example, like a battle you have trouble with. Mostly, you have to read up on: what dispels what and how to seperate the effects the enemy has up.

Shin

A common combination once HLAs come into play is time stop -> improved alacrity -> 2 rounds of casting various aoe and single target spells without the 6-second limit. Combined with the robe of Vecna, this is basically a way for a wizard to unload close to his entire offensive arsenal in one go and deal out tremendous amounts of punishment. You can also use it to set up multiple dispels/defense piercers on enemy mages and have them become suddenly vulnerable to physical attacks when the time stop wears off. Works even better for sorcerers.

A maybe somewhat cheesier combination is haste -> time stop -> shapechange mindflayer -> intelligence drain the shit out of your time-frozen opponent. Very effective on opponents with high damage resistance.

booinyoureyes

Actually the reason I made this thread is because someone mentioned just that: shapeshifting to mindflayer to beat Yaga-Shura. I didn't even know you could do that .
I have trouble without Keldorn, so the dispelling seems to be something that would help me. Do you mean spells like Breach and Pierce Magic? Do they always work?

DarkDogg

If you can't play with mages, why don't you go with a bard instead or even without mages in your parrty? More challange Bards are poor mages indeed, but have more fighting abilities so you can be more easygoing with them.
Personally I can't imagine BG2 without mages. But on the other side I've just finished a BG1EE playtrhough without mages at all. And I must say it was much easier going with archers and a bard, using wands and scrolls. Since we have the elven chain mail armor.
(I shall make a new thread about Garrick. I really changed my mind about him or is it because of the +5 crossbow I've picked from Aldeth's brother).
Actually if you have Coran in your party you don't need any mage in your party. Since there are arrows of dispelling )) Just hide in shadows and let it rain arrows, against Davaeorn for example. He gets killed with oneshot then without his protections

Your question:
Yes breach and pierce magic is a must against mage enemies. Also I use remove magic and spellthrust (in some situations). If you have an cleric - cast doom, then do with this enemy whatever you want with your mage. Hold, stone, confuse etc. Greater malison is good too for AOE.
Secret word is the most powerfull dispelling spell IMHO. I use this spell a lot.
I use tenser transform (I used in the past) when I was playing a Kensai\Mage charname. More sense IMO!
And one more thing. I never sell usefull scrolls even if I allready have them in my spell book. I always use them on my enemies and there will be a free slot in my spellbook...

Shin

booinyoureyes said:

Do you mean spells like Breach and Pierce Magic? Do they always work?

Almost. In a vanilla game breach doesn't work well vs liches (since they're immune to level 5 spells and lower), though it has the advantage of ignoring magical protections like spell turning etc (The Sword Coast Stratagems mod changes this around). Also low-level magical attacks/defense breakers don't work on high-level protections, but spells like ruby ray of reversal, pierce shield and spellstrike will work on everything save a protection from magic scroll.

For a chart with more detailed information you can look here.

booinyoureyes

@Shin that chart is exactly the kinda thing I needed. Thank you so much. Imoen, Nalia and Neera are gonna rock from now on

booinyoureyes

how about khelben's warding whip?

Shin

It has the advantage of removing several protection spells over time, but it doesn't tear down a spell trap, so not always useful in the later game except combined with other defense breakers. Also made kind of obsolete by spellstrike, which removes everything at once - but of course you may want to spend the 9th level slots on other things.

Lathlaer

From my personal experience, the most important thing is to keep track of your resources. With two sequencers, spell trigger and contingency, it's easy to trigger or use something you don't want to. I don't mean something which will not help you, but something you don't need to use.

I try to play my mages like a D&D wizard should be played - usually an encounter requires one-two spells from me. The rest I leave for the warriors (I mean, they have shiny and expensive weapons, they surely want to use them ). When I was in Watcher's Keep and I used Neera to unleash the combination of Time Stop, Improved Alacrity, Horrid Wilting, Horrid Wilting, Finger of Death, Dragon Breath and Summon Planetar, there was literally NOTHING left for the fighters to do.

Therefore I enjoy mostly small combinations: Greater Malison with Finger of Death (-6 to save) or GM with Emotion: Hopelesness (everyone within 30ft drops to the ground). Satysfying, yet not overkill. And you don't have to deal with the fact that after unleashing big combos you have to rest every 10 minutes. Or, worse, recast those tedious sequencers and triggers

Kurumi

I haven't read the whole thread so perhaps the following was already mentioned.. anyway.. esp. with HL Sorcerers with very high Wis, I really find the Wish spell so tremendously useful, because in most cases you'll get the Wish, that replenishes all the spells you and your party already had cast.. hence "endless" spell casting for everyone - or the double length time-stop with improved alacrity.. ..also make good use of all the contingencies and sequencers.. there are lots of effective combinations you can experiment with and you can use these even while being shapeshifted, too!

nano

This is a cheesy one, but Project Image. It allows you to unload your entire spellbook for the cost of one seventh level spell, and keeps you out of danger as well. It means you can blow all your spells in every battle without having to rest all the time. In the vanilla game I believe it also allows you to use all your consumables and still have them when the spell ends but many mods disable that.

Kurumi

Yup.. nano is correct, it still works like that in the vanilla game.. .. some other things that you also could try for some fun..
- combination of farsight, web and diverse cloud spells
- get your casters fire res over 100%, cast Incendiary Cloud centered on yourself while being surrounded by lots of mobs and get healed by the fire while you watch your opponents burn

booinyoureyes

sweeeeeeet.

lunar

Set autopause when spell cast from options. Give Robe of Vecna and Amulet of Power to your mage. Cast timestop, then improved alacrity and then you can empty your whole spellbook. Autopause will help you cast another spell at the instant the current spell is finished, so you don't waste a single precious second of the alacrity.

GamingFreak

Chain Contingency: Greater Malison, Abi-Dhalzim's Horrid Wilting, and another Abi-Dhalzim's Horrid Wilting; do this before each fight, set it to "See Enemy" and set the target to "Nearest Enemy". Then Rest (so you can do this mid-battle after the first one is used. From there your next best option is Time Stop, followed by Improved Alacrity and any number of devastating spells. My personal favorites are Dragon Breath x 2, Shapechange: Mind Flayer to drain a target's intelligence until they're dead, or Razor Blades and then just murder them with ranged-shots.

Once you get 3-4 level 9 spell slots, you pretty much changed the way the game works; It's no longer about "how long will it be until I run out of useful things to cast" and more about "Will these losers be dead by the end of this merciless assault or will I have to stretch a little and kill them harder?"

EDIT: Incidentally when Edwin reaches the level high enough to cast level 9 spells, he automatically gets 4 slots; 3 more than Imoen could get at that level, and more than Jan Jansen can get when he gets level 9 spells.

booinyoureyes

lunar said:

Set autopause when spell cast from options. Give Robe of Vecna and Amulet of Power to your mage. Cast timestop, then improved alacrity and then you can empty your whole spellbook. Autopause will help you cast another spell at the instant the current spell is finished, so you don't waste a single precious second of the alacrity.

@Lunar I recently started using autopause. I can't wait to try it out at high levels

recklessheart

@booinyoureyes , Khelben's warding whip is nothing to scoff at, in my opinion. Not only does it take down multiple spell protections per round (obsoleted by spellstrike), but it also means that you do not have to redirect your attention to breaking spellwards when a mage gets to 50% hp and their spell trigger goes off: khelben's warding whip will continue to take effect, allowing you to proceed with your original tactic without having to regroup or restrategise. Even so, the spellstrike-breach tactic often permits your fighters to take out mages without need for a Plan B, except in the case of liches and particularly powerful spellcasters.

recklessheart

Additionally, a combination of Dragon's Breath, Chain Lighting, Greater Malison and Chaos on a Sorcerer will render enemies lvl 1-40 susceptible to some sort of 6-person-party tactic, whether it be an all-out-aggressive, a saving-throw-dependant-debilitation, or some middle ground between the two that requires facilitation from a divine caster. Collectively, these spells + other arcane or divine spells will always serve the needs that the average fighting class cannot ie. AoE or SuperBoss fighters.

This is a very general guide for getting to know your spellcaster that will prove reliable across several playthroughs until you are willing to be more adventurous or experimental with your casters. By the way: suggested tactics are usually optimal, but don't be afraid to try out your own combinations of arcane spells. Even if they are not conventional, they may be at the very least occasionally useful. Such is the beauty of the BG2 spellcaster.

CrevsDaak

@booinyoureyes I namedrop cuz' I don't know if you were going to read this.
Targeting spells to self ignores enemies' Magic Resistance, so a Chan Contingency loaded with 3 ADHW is a real cheese, @Kurumi forgot half of the trick with Incendiary Cloud which is lot more useful for Fighter\Mages, most if you don't have much AC, but it will work fine with a Dragon Disciple.
Then Hold, Chaos and some others spells are pretty powerful, Melf's Acid Arrows *must* be in your spellbook and in your memorized spells, it is King when it comes to DOT (damage over time), and much more if you load 3 in a single Spell Trigger. Casting a Greater Malison can change the course of the battle if you have in mind Hold, Chaos and that type of things. Cloudkill works pretty fine vs. most of SoA enemy spellcaster, it deals nice DOT if you stack 3 Cloudkills and it interrupts spellcasting, plus, you can take the with ranged weapons and Skull Traps
If you have some more questions feel free to ask, I am here the whole day (almost!!) and I can answer lots of cheesy useful things for HL spellcasters.

SpaceInvader

GamingFreak said:

Chain Contingency: Greater Malison, Abi-Dhalzim's Horrid Wilting, and another Abi-Dhalzim's Horrid Wilting; do this before each fight, set it to "See Enemy" and set the target to "Nearest Enemy".

In this way the Greater Malison will trigger after the ADHWs damage.

CrevsDaak said:

@booinyoureyes I namedrop cuz' I don't know if you were going to read this.
Targeting spells to self ignores enemies' Magic Resistance, so a Chan Contingency loaded with 3 ADHW is a real cheese

Unfortunately, ADHW is one of the few spells that won't ignore MR despite using it with Chain Contingency

nano

SpaceInvader said:

Unfortunately, ADHW is one of the few spells that won't ignore MR despite using it with Chain Contingency

Oh, why is that?

Greater Malison hits after ADHW only, or after everything else? Or is that specific to Chain Contingency? If you use, say, Malison + Slow in a sequencer will it hit before or after the slow?

SpaceInvader

@nano
It's just a matter of how fast the "ball" of magic that represents Greater Malison travels, compared to the ADHW's cloud.
When the former hits the target then it splits into as many balls as are the enemies in the spell range. While ADHW immediately inflicts damage.
Slow, like Haste, triggers almost immediately once casted. So it will almost certainly affect the targets BEFORE Greater Malison.
You just have to check the chat to see what effect triggers first

GamingFreak

ADHW x3 is still considered one of the "Winning Cheese" combos with Chain Contingency. One strategy is, if I haven't mentioned it yet, resting after casting Chain Contingency, so you get the spells back. That way as the Contingency triggers you can quickly get off that Time Stop then use whatever AoE or kill strategies you prefer.

butsam

Define "high level"...as you level up in SoA, or are you starting in ToB?

True Sight is a very valuable spell (or use Keldorn, who has this ability), to dispel illusions that enemies often have. Debuffs are quite useful. Don't underestimate the incredible power of Greater Malison when used in combination with other spells, particularly if you have one mage cast it and follow it up with both mages casting some pretty damaging spells that might otherwise be saved against. Each unit reduction in the saving throw value is essentially an additional 5% chance of success for any spells with a save...Greater Malison makes all saving throws be at -4, which means all spells have an extra 20% chance of success within the duration of Greater Malison...and it lasts 2 rounds per level. Especially with multiple mages to take advantage of the reduced saving throw timeframe, this is quite powerful. It is also a level 4 spell, so it doesn't take up valuable higher-level slots. You may not use it much at the beginning of SoA, but once most of the 4th level spells are useless, you will probably not cast anything else 4th level other than Greater Malison.

Also, check out the Robes of Vecna, which I believe are sold in the Promenade at the main merchant (note there is a merchant in the back of the room). Those robes speed up casting time significantly.

butsam

Oh, also, polymorph self is very useful in certain niche circumstances for one big reason: Mustard Jelly. You are immune to Electricity/Magic/Piercing/Missile damage as Mustard Jelly, which can make it so you are immune to any damage in a few locations of the game that would otherwise be tough.

It *could* be useful at other times, but the main thing to know with Polymorph Self is the Mustard Jelly immunities.

nano

@SpaceInvader Ok thanks, that makes sense. How about Horrid Wilting not bypassing MR with Chain Contingency - do you know why it doesn't work?

SpaceInvader

@nano
It must be some code related stuff linked to the animation of the spell.

Larkus

nano said:

@SpaceInvader Ok thanks, that makes sense. How about Horrid Wilting not bypassing MR with Chain Contingency - do you know why it doesn't work?

The spell has to be 1) not party friendly and 2) targetable at yourself (either naturally or via sequencers/contingencies).

ADHW is party friendly, so it can't be made to ignore magic resistance. See this post: http://web.archive.org/web/20090205172215/http://gamebanshee.com/forums/baldurs-gate-ii-shadows-of-amn-9/how-to-make-your-spells-ignore-magic-resistance-79690.html

I only tested it in vanilla BG2, so I don't know whether BG2:EE changed something about it. As far as I can tell this 'trick' relies on a hardcoded bug, the same bug that made Sunfire ignore magic resistance in vanilla BG2 when used by the party. I heard that BG2:EE fixed this bug, but I don't know how it was fixed, so it may or may not be that the 'trick' works in BG:EE. Since I don't have BG:EE i can't test it myself, but if somebody would test it, I would be interested in the results.

Best regards

Larkus

booinyoureyes said:

Or send me to a guide.

As you wish. An oldie but goodie - Xyx's excellent Spells Reference:

http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/BG2/SpellsReference/Main.htm

On a second thought, to call it merely a 'goodie' is not good enough. Although it was written before BG:EE, it is the most comprehensive spell guide that I have seen so far. So, read it! You won't be disappointed.