Confirmed level 6 spells on BG1EE

infapi00

Just for your information: as the title says, I want to confirm that level 6 spells are available on BG1EE.

Having said so, getting that is really specific:
* First I removed the level cap. There is a thread on this forum about how to do that
* I was soloing.
* I was soloing as a sorcerer.

To be clear: I didn't find any level 6 scroll on BG1EE. But as probably you know, on some of your level ups, sorcerer can chose to learn new spells among all the available spells At level 12, sorcerer can choose one from the 6th level spells.

PS: before someone asks how I deal with traps. There are also threads on this forum talking about that. Basically you deal with it, usually receiving damage. Mirror image helps a lot, summons not so much. And yes, it makes Durlag Tower a hell. For me killing the demon at the last level, or the other demon when you are back to Ulgoth's Beard were easy compared to deal to all the traps at the tower. But the rest of the game is not so trap-problematic.

CrevsDaak

All the spells are available, but not the scrolls (there are scrolls of Wish and those Bigby's but you can't find them in the game), but some of them like limited Wish are missing parts eg the dialogue with the Dao in this particular case.

kamuizin

limited wish is a level 7° spell scroll, bigby's spells are either 8° or 9° circle, besides that @CrevsDaak is right, the scrolls and level 6° ability casting exist in BG:EE, they just aren't accessible normally.

CrevsDaak

@kamuizin, the only HL scrolls in BG:EE are both Bigby's and Wish, Limited Wish and Wish miss their dialogues, by this, useless. Then, all the spells work, but you can't find scrolls.
A note on strange stuff like this, there are Cow Summoning scrolls, and also in older versions, Energy Blades was as a lvl9 spell.

Tresset

I used to get level 6 spells in vBG1. There were not a whole lot of them programmed into the game but I would get them.

Tresset

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHfAAz9DT5I&

Lathlaer

My experience is a bit different but similar in the same way.

When I played Black Pits, naturally my druid reached higher level than I would normally have. Then I imported him to single player and lo and behold! I have 11th level, 6th level spells and Fire Elemental against which even Sarevok is helpless.

Is it always the case when you import your character? I mean, do you always get a bit extra over 161k which is supposed to be the limit?

Heindrich

Lathlaer said:

My experience is a bit different but similar in the same way.

When I played Black Pits, naturally my druid reached higher level than I would normally have. Then I imported him to single player and lo and behold! I have 11th level, 6th level spells and Fire Elemental against which even Sarevok is helpless.

Is it always the case when you import your character? I mean, do you always get a bit extra over 161k which is supposed to be the limit?

@Lathlaer
I am not entire sure what you mean. If you import a character, of course he/she'd have more experience than normal, and you're likely to break the xp cap if you remove it. I removed my xp cap for BG EE and achieved about 180k xp with a 6-man party after a near-completionist playthrough.

There is however a big difference between what I did (starting with 0 and grinding to 180k xp) and just starting with (for example) a lv5 character. Encounters and enemies do not scale with your level (unlike in BG 2, kinda), but NPC companions do. Thus if u start with a high level Charname, all ur NPCs will be more experienced than they should be, and the content would be pointlessly easy cos ur entire party is OP for the content.

Lathlaer

Ah, I just thought that if you import a character who has more than 161k to single player, you are reduced to this 161k since that is the cap in main game. And yeah, starting as a 11th level character would be quite pointless. Luckily I don't have to play whole game to see the hilarious "Sarevok: Fire Elemental is immune to my damage" xD

Heindrich

@Lathlaer
Oh, well there is an xp cap normally. If u start with a lv11 character, I am pretty sure u don't lose any levels or stats/spells, but u will not be able to gain any more xp. If u take off the xp cap, there is no hard coding that prevents u from gaining more xp and levelling further, as far as I am aware anyway.

Interestingly, when I imported my Charname into BG 2 (Vanilla), Charname had 181k xp (exactly what he ended BG EE with), but his companions (Minsc and Jaheira) were capped at 161k xp.

Aigleborgne

I completely disagree with you as I have already done Durlag's Tower with a solo sorcerer.
First, you need ring of free action, it's not mandatory but strongly recommended as it prevents you any death related to hold effects.
Second, with Minor Globe of Invulnerability, Stoneskins, and Mirror Image, I have walked in all place without any harm at all.
Just look all these traps sending darts, missile or magic, all stopped by your protections

I had more much troubles in some fights like chess game just before the last level.
Still, I managed to do everything without any reloads. But well, it is quite doable with some meta-gaming, which I now dislike.

Regarding level 6 spells, it is no news, I did this years ago with BGT or EasyTutu.

infapi00 said:

PS: before someone asks how I deal with traps. There are also threads on this forum talking about that. Basically you deal with it, usually receiving damage. Mirror image helps a lot, summons not so much. And yes, it makes Durlag Tower a hell. For me killing the demon at the last level, or the other demon when you are back to Ulgoth's Beard were easy compared to deal to all the traps at the tower. But the rest of the game is not so trap-problematic.

infapi00

Aigleborgne said:

I completely disagree with you as I have already done Durlag's Tower with a solo sorcerer.
First, you need ring of free action, it's not mandatory but strongly recommended as it prevents you any death related to hold effects.
Second, with Minor Globe of Invulnerability, Stoneskins, and Mirror Image, I have walked in all place without any harm at all.
Just look all these traps sending darts, missile or magic, all stopped by your protections

Well, probably with minor globe of invulnerability and the ring that would make it easier. Anyway, I took other spells first (and probably I will not take it later on BG2/TOB) and I didn't have that ring yet. Stoneskin and Mirror Image helps, but you still can get some damage from the traps. The main issue to me were that most of the traps at the tower doesn't dissappear after you triggered them.

Aigleborgne said:

I had more much troubles in some fights like chess game just before the last level.
Still, I managed to do everything without any reloads. But well, it is quite doable with some meta-gaming, which I now dislike.

Curiously I didn't have too much problem with the chess battle. I had a wand of fire and I just started to spam fireballs.

In any case, this is one of the good things of the sorcerer. There are so many spells to choose (and items), that the experience can be really different based on what you decided to get

Aigleborgne said:

Regarding level 6 spells, it is no news, I did this years ago with BGT or EasyTutu.

Well yes, but BGEE is not BGT or EasyTutu Before starting my solo campaign, I searched in this forum trying to confirm if BGEE had level 6 spells, because although BGEE imported some of the stuff already available from "classic" BG1 mods, it was not clear (at least to me) which ones. And I didn't find anything. So just in case someone was interested, I wrote this post.

meagloth

I guess you're saying that there is enough XP in game to have a sorcerer reach lvl 12, which is nice to know as I am currently soloing a sorcerer. As for high level spells, it has been known for a long time that BG:EE has label tables up to forty. .
Carbons and shank didn't stand a chance. That's just straight-up cheating though, so I think I know what your getting at.

Aigleborgne

Seriously, as a solo sorcerer, you need minor globe. I think it's the first spell I took at level 4 (or 2nd after stoneskins).
Minor globe allows you to be immune to almost every spellcasters and traps in BG1.
If you didn't pick it, you can buy some scrools in sorcerous sundries.

As for fireball wands, I didn't use them at all because I feel it is cheating.
I mean, you could have enough fireball wands to do all BG1 fights and level 3 fireball is very powerful in BG1. Same thing as fireball arrows. I have my own rules to prevent me from having an easy game.
In my upcoming mod, I will tone down these items (as well as others), and I am really looking forward to item revision for BGEE too.

Minor globe could be overpowered because any mage could dispel it for now but it won't last forever. I suppose SCS have some dispel/breach too. And it is something I will really look at.

And finally, ring of free action is also almost a cheat in bg1. You can be held/stun is so many places, it is really difficult to play without it when soloing. I have lost many games that way. I didn't remember when I could get this ring, but it is quite far in the game. Hold effects are not always stopped by minor globe when it comes from creatures like ghast/worms.

infapi00

Aigleborgne said:

Seriously, as a solo sorcerer, you need minor globe. I think it's the first spell I took at level 4 (or 2nd after stoneskins).
Minor globe allows you to be immune to almost every spellcasters and traps in BG1.
If you didn't pick it, you can buy some scrools in sorcerous sundries.

I already finished BG2+Watcher's keep (staring TOB), so I disagree that you *need* minor globe. Anyway, taking into other spells that I took I agree that was a mistake not taking it.

Aigleborgne said:

As for fireball wands, I didn't use them at all because I feel it is cheating.
I mean, you could have enough fireball wands to do all BG1 fights and level 3 fireball is very powerful in BG1. Same thing as fireball arrows. I have my own rules to prevent me from having an easy game.
In my upcoming mod, I will tone down these items (as well as others), and I am really looking forward to item revision for BGEE too.

Well, this is more about personal preference. It is true that using the wands make some combats easy. But is just another tool on a solo repertoire. Like potions (that I started to see how worthy are thanks to the solo games, not only with sorcerers). And in any case, they will not help you with the big battles on BG1, like the greater werewolf or sarevok, and became quickly obsolete on BG2. On BG2 I have them just to finish off trolls.

Aigleborgne said:

Minor globe could be overpowered because any mage could dispel it for now but it won't last forever. I suppose SCS have some dispel/breach too. And it is something I will really look at.

Aigleborgne said:

And finally, ring of free action is also almost a cheat in bg1. You can be held/stun is so many places, it is really difficult to play without it when soloing. I have lost many games that way. I didn't remember when I could get this ring, but it is quite far in the game. Hold effects are not always stopped by minor globe when it comes from creatures like ghast/worms.

AFAIR, you find it at the Iron Throne, one of the guards that try to kill you. I guess that the first time you go there. In any case, yes, really far in the game.

infapi00

infapi00 said:

BG1, like the greater werewolf or sarevok, and became quickly obsolete on BG2. On BG2 I have them just

greater *wolfwere, sorry for the typo

Aigleborgne

You might not need minor globe if you fast kill mage with AOE spells like fireball, skulltrap, or wands... But if you don't, you might fail a roll and be confused, held, stunned, ... which will result in a quick death. Not to mention enemies damaging spells like magic missile, fireball, ...
So maybe you can do it without minor globe, but maybe not in a no reload challenge which I was doing. With minor globe, you can just ignore enemy mages (and many traps, I am thinking at candlekeep catacombs full of lightning traps)

infapi00

Aigleborgne said:

You might not need minor globe if you fast kill mage with AOE spells like fireball, skulltrap, or wands... But if you don't, you might fail a roll and be confused, held, stunned, ... which will result in a quick death. Not to mention enemies damaging spells like magic missile, fireball, ...
So maybe you can do it without minor globe, but maybe not in a no reload challenge which I was doing. With minor globe, you can just ignore enemy mages (and many traps, I am thinking at candlekeep catacombs full of lightning traps)

Hey, I already said that was a mistake not picking it, so you don't need to convince me again But I don't want to re-start a bg1-bg2 solo run just for some mistakes (I made some others too).

Anyway, thanks.

mumumomo

Minor globe is not needed in a no-reload challenge.

Casters are quite easy to deal with (free action ring, greenstone amulet, or just disrupt with magic missile). Actually improved invisibility is probably better when dealing with casters, even in BG1.

In fact, minor globe it is mainly useful for traps. But unless you want to do watcher's keep, it is quite easy to protect accordingly (potions, mirror image).

In Soa, minor globes becomes quite useless.

The question is : is there better spell picks at level 4?
- Stoneskin is obviously better.
- I also prefer spiderspawn, which is incredibly powerful with web and works nicely until mid SOA
- Improved invisibility is also much better because it prevents casters from casting on you
- for the rest it is more a matter of taste : minor sequencer (marginally useful for the whole game), greater malison (good if you plan to use save or else spells), polymorph self (for some nice immunities), teleport field (great to protect from melee) or wizard eye (if you like cheese).

overall i would rather pick minor sequencer and greater malison (or teleport field) which remain useful for the whole game and avoid minor globe.


On a final note, you can get a free free action ring in ulgoth's beard (pickpocket or kill the guy).