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EE keeper cheating?

Would it be considered cheating to use ee keeper to modify a npcs proficiency points? I encountered dorn late and wanted to go 2 hand and halberd with him but he already has a wasted point in bastard sword. My char name is grandmastered in bastard btw.

Comments

  • jackjackjackjack Member Posts: 3,251
    It depends on who answers your question, really. I say no, others will say yes. But in the end, you should do what will further your enjoyment of the game. I will say that EEKeeper can be a slippery slope - it is very tempting to start changing a bunch of stuff while you're in there. At that point, of course, we're talking about cheating :)
  • ChildofBhaal599ChildofBhaal599 Member Posts: 1,781
    i wouldn't call it cheating. myself if I were to forget to get somebody until late I might set up their proficiencies according to if I picked them up in the beginning then add the points in as though I had him all this time. It just does what having him the whole time would have done.

    and if we need to know if EEKEEPER in general is cheating, my multiplayer game had messed up proficiencies I had to correct. My own character turns out to have no proficiencies at all! (i wondered why I was missing a lot, but I blamed it on us being level one) most of the stuff I do in there is just fixing mistakes and bugs so really it is a handy tool so that you yourself don't get cheated. And, as Sylvus said, this is a single player game. the worst I could call cheating is if you made you strong for a multiplayer game where the others may not want that.
  • CrevsDaakCrevsDaak Member Posts: 7,155
    I don't call this cheating, really, in BG1 I don't know why the hell, but Kivan, Coran, Ajantis and Minsc take proficienfy in LONGBOWS, those bazterdz, I changed lots of those, including, I wanted Kivan to dual-wield a Mace and a a War Hammer, and make him use Crossbows instead, because that is real boss in BG1.
  • MoonsongMoonsong Member Posts: 36
    In a single player game there is no such thing as cheating as far as I’m concerned. Set things up the way it gives you the most fun to play! Proficiencies are one thing I change all the time. Some of them just don’t make sense to me. Bless that fellow who created EE keeper.
  • DeltharisDeltharis Member Posts: 124
    Depending on cheating definitions.

    Is anything permitted in Single Player? Is it not cheating as long as the end result is within the rules? Is it not cheating as long as in alternative universe you might have in-game choices that lead to it? Is it not cheating as long as you do not benefit from it? Is every change with console or outside editor (including mods) cheating?,

    There was a discussion here once about that. Last one isn't particularly popular (though there was this one guy), first one neither I'd guess. So mostly definitions vary somewhere in the middle of the spectrum, pick one that feels best. And remember that you can't be wrong about when you're the one that's defining the words.
  • MReedMReed Member Posts: 25
    A side note: Dorn is a Blackguard, which is a /Paladin/ (not /Fighter/) kit. Thus, he cannot have more than two dots in any one proficiency.

    I suspect that you intend to give him grandmastery (5 dots) in two handed swords, and *that* is definitely cheating, I'm afraid. If that isn't your plan, I'm not sure what your issue is, as he will get more than enough proficiency points to max out several weapons over the course of the game.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    edited December 2013
    In your case I would say no because its not really giving you any kind of advantage. That said (to respond to what others have said) you can cheat in a single-player game, so I'm not sure how that enters into it. Either way do what makes it more fun for you.
  • AlkaluropsAlkalurops Member Posts: 269
    Yes, it's cheating. And nobody cares.
  • Troodon80Troodon80 Member, Developer Posts: 4,110
    Well, cheating would imply breaking the rules, or at least going against them. For example, if you remove two points from a weapon proficiency that Dorn already has and put those two points into a different weapon slot, then that's not actually cheating. Legally, Dorn still has the same number of proficiency points in total.

    At the same time, if you leave those points alone and add more, the character build becomes illegal and thus is considered cheating.

    Here's where the water muddies, though: if you are altering what the developers intended when they made Dorn, then the character is no longer true-to-self. Further muddying the water, adding extra ability scores cannot really be considered illegal otherwise they would remove all the tomes and manuals that increase base attributes.

    The use of any of the Keeper programs can not, by itself, be considered cheating. It's what the individual does with it that may or may not be considered as such. If you feel like you're going too far by adding extra scores for resistance, proficiency, ability, or adding far too many spells or memorised spells, etc., then it's probably best to rethink what you actually want to do with it.
  • moody_magemoody_mage Member Posts: 2,054
    Not cheating, go forth and build Dorn in the image you want rather than what the Devs want. Just don't break the rules in pip allocation.
  • ShinShin Member Posts: 2,344
    Do what you want without worries. You won't lose any achievement points or ladder positions.
  • LathlaerLathlaer Member Posts: 475
    I use the Keeper to change my stats to those I would've had if I played BG1 and to change my appearance. Sometimes when I like to try things that aren't in the game (ie Dark Justice +5).
  • PibaroPibaro Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 2,989
    I wonder why are you asking that?
    If no one spots you, you are as clean as an elven arse.
  • tennisgolfbolltennisgolfboll Member Posts: 457
    Yes its cheating. And do what you think is the most fun
  • kaffekoppenkaffekoppen Member Posts: 377
    Lathlaer said:

    I use the Keeper to change my stats to those I would've had if I played BG1 and to change my appearance. Sometimes when I like to try things that aren't in the game (ie Dark Justice +5).

    I don't even consider this cheating. I also think it's OK to switch a party member to a different class if you want to try something new. Some of us have already done many playthroughs anyway.
  • Awong124Awong124 Member Posts: 2,642
    edited December 2013
    I think it's cheating. But I also don't see anything wrong with it. If it makes you feel any better, you can call it "modding".
  • Lapetus2000Lapetus2000 Member Posts: 10
    I'll tell you what is cheating.
    Creating a dragon disciple sorcerer with permanent aura cleansing, 99 spell castings per spell level, permanent immunity to time stop, level drain, hold, fear, imprisonment, confusion, death magic and even the entire abjuration school of magic.

    I got bored with her after an hour.
    I had more fun figuring out all the effect codes in eekeeper.
  • jackjackjackjack Member Posts: 3,251
    I used it to make a Halfling Fighter/Shadowdancer. Yeah (…) I cheated.
  • kaffekoppenkaffekoppen Member Posts: 377
    Well multiclasses with kits are generally more powerful, but it really would not bother me.

    Swashbuckler/fighter multi would actually be pretty crazy. Kensai-like buffs, thief skills, *can* wear armor, no dual class waiting period and both sets of HLAs.
  • jackjackjackjack Member Posts: 3,251
    Is it @Troodon80? If so, thanks be to you.
  • Troodon80Troodon80 Member, Developer Posts: 4,110
    @HH2, @jackjack, your appreciation is greatly appreciated. :D
  • JTMJTM Member Posts: 70
    edited December 2013
    The whole concept of cheating or not cheating is rather pointless in single player imo.

    The only thing I would concern myself with if I were using an editor is if I am increasing/reducing game challenge or negatively affecting story elements and how that would affect my enjoyment of the game.

    The developers try their best to design characters with stats, items, etc. with game balance and story elements in mind. But no one is compelling you down that road of experiencing the game as the developers envision (though I would suggest completing vanilla game at least once). Hence mods and editors.
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