Make spell fights more transparent
Cloutier
Member Posts: 228
This should apply more to BG2, but still. Magic fights are a mess. A lot of protections don't protect against what they look like they should protect against. It's often hard to figure out what has worked or not, and why, with the in-game messages.
There are fixpacks that have done a great job streamlining this - but there is still room for improvement.
1. Make in game messages more informative. What has been dispelled, and by what?
Example: Breach - ineffective (target Kangaxx immune to 5th level or lower spells).
2. Do something about the Improved Invisibility + Spell Immunity: Divination cheese. Perhaps area of effect spell protection dispellers? Or make it so that Improved Invisibility does not prevent spell attacks being cast on the subject?
3. We need more documentation about some monsters' immunities or innate spells (beholder's anti-magic ray).
4. Also make the spell descriptions more precise.
5. Fix magic resistance blocking desired spells. Fixpacks have helped, but there are still problems left. Don't forget magic resistant summons (like Skeleton Warriors) that we want to buff!
6. Fix imprisonment permanently removing the victim - make it greyed out instead. What's the point of the Freedom spell if Imprisonment kills the PC?
7. Death spell automatically getting rid of summons is a bit overpowered IMO. Especially with modded AIs that have it in Contingencies that activate as soon as something is summoned. Maybe allow a saving throw based on the HDs of the summon?
There are fixpacks that have done a great job streamlining this - but there is still room for improvement.
1. Make in game messages more informative. What has been dispelled, and by what?
Example: Breach - ineffective (target Kangaxx immune to 5th level or lower spells).
2. Do something about the Improved Invisibility + Spell Immunity: Divination cheese. Perhaps area of effect spell protection dispellers? Or make it so that Improved Invisibility does not prevent spell attacks being cast on the subject?
3. We need more documentation about some monsters' immunities or innate spells (beholder's anti-magic ray).
4. Also make the spell descriptions more precise.
5. Fix magic resistance blocking desired spells. Fixpacks have helped, but there are still problems left. Don't forget magic resistant summons (like Skeleton Warriors) that we want to buff!
6. Fix imprisonment permanently removing the victim - make it greyed out instead. What's the point of the Freedom spell if Imprisonment kills the PC?
7. Death spell automatically getting rid of summons is a bit overpowered IMO. Especially with modded AIs that have it in Contingencies that activate as soon as something is summoned. Maybe allow a saving throw based on the HDs of the summon?
15
Comments
I really insist on #6 - Imprisonment.
Don't you find seriously overpowered a spell that will end the game with no save? Sure there are spell defenses or Shield of the Archons if you are a mage or cleric, enrage if you are a berserker. But all the other classes are virtually powerless against Imprisonment.
Also, when higher level mages have contingencies for several protection spells in the later game, it can be really difficult to tell exactly which protection spells they have activated. It would be nice to make this information a little bit more accessible as well.
These are just my thoughts. Overall I think @Cloutier has some great suggestions for improving the (extremely often) lategame spell battles.
Basically the whole buff/debuff/resists system is very obscure, there's a ton of spells that serve similar-but-not-identical purposes; it could be a lot more fun but as is it's just guesswork because it's entirely unclear what works against what. Plus all the monster's innate abilities as mentionned. So I wholeheartedly agree that we need better feedback at the UI level as well as more accurate spell descriptions. That goes beyond buffs and debuffs but this is perhaps the most significant case for it.
As for imprisonment, I guess the solution would be SCSII's approach: just never target it at the PC.
Spell battles in BG2 are so messy.
I think you're right. At least in IWD, the lore of one of the items you can get there mentions how beneficial spells can bypass a Drow's magic resistance.
I think I've seen @AndreaColombo quoting one of the DnD books about it too.
Further, if it doesn't kill them, but just puts them in an infinite maze effect, then you couldn't leave the area without kicking them out of the team (you can't kick the PC...).
By the time you see these spells in the game your mages will most probably be able to revert the spells. If not your party can always purchase a scroll and free you.
Instant death spells, such as finger of death, should end the game as usual, as in death you lose the Bhaal essence.
About imprisonment 'removing' the NPC from the party: I agree it would be better if the portrait was grayed out, with an icon similar to the one for 'maze' indicating what happened to them. It's just plain weird if I cast 'freedom' after a fight with Knagaxx, and Jahaira starts yelling at me about me kicking her out, rather than thank me for bothering with the expensive scroll.
Actually, I think the same should go for petrification - if I run frantically around the map, looking for a temple to sell me 'stone to flesh' scroll, I'd rather hear, "Thank you PC!", rather than "Why are you kicking me out" dialog afterwards.
Once the game comes out I'll have to test and confirm this though.
The reason I love BG is that its HARD-CORE: the way it used to be in many rpg games. Didn't bother a quicksave and now you're imprisoned? Might as well failed a save vs. death spell. BG rewards the prepared player and punishes the unprepared. This is the way it should stay, perma-death (for pc or npc) is is a key part of that.