Skip to content

What do you want to see in a new NPC?

This is actually a question with a few different parts, so feel free to answer only one part if you'd like. While working on portraits and browsing through existing mods, I've noticed that most tend to be dedicated to elves or half-elves, with a smattering of paladins for good measure. Others do exist, but with the new kits and content, there are certainly opportunities for more varied party members. I'm first curious first about what types of races and classes you'd like to see. Are there any that you feel are underrepresented?

Second, how important are each of the following for you when using a NPC mod?

1 - Dialogue with PC and other NPCs
2 - Romance option(s)
3 - Lore contribution (bringing in other story elements from FR lore)
4 - Additional quests
5 - Balance (in stats and items)
6 - Alignment/personality
7 - Portrait
8 - Sound set
9 - Technical writing (proper grammar, spelling, etc.)
10 - Something else not listed here

I'm hoping that by getting reactions from the BG community, modders (and those of us aspiring to release our own content) will get a better sense of what all of you want rather than creating what is "cool" from our own perspectives.
«1

Comments

  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239

    Ah this is a great point. :D

    Yeah, shorties and shorty women. :)
    For BG2, more thieves.
    Another druid would be nice in either BG1 or BG2. And bards?

    See, I'd reconsider anything that has the prefix "more" or "another" - the best way to make a character stand out (at least initially) is to have them offer something the game doesn't already have. That's part of the reason Kelsey is so popular as a mod - BG2 didn't have Sorcerers or Good-aligned pure spellcasters back then.
  • scorpiovascorpiova Member Posts: 87
    Extremely flirty and aggressive personality. I haven't met Hexxat yet so she might be like that. I'm thinking someone like Coran the ladies man.
  • ReadingRamboReadingRambo Member Posts: 598
    I would love a good aligned dwarf of some sort (preferably a cleric maybe, ala Yeslick). Korgan is amazingly effective but I often romance aerie so he doesn't always fit.

    I've been tempted to try out the yeslick npc mod but unsure if its compatiable withEE.
  • RhaellaRhaella Member, Developer Posts: 178
    Isandir said:

    This is actually a question with a few different parts, so feel free to answer only one part if you'd like. While working on portraits and browsing through existing mods, I've noticed that most tend to be dedicated to elves or half-elves, with a smattering of paladins for good measure.

    Actually, paladins are one of the least well represented classes, as far as I've seen. I'm ridiculously fond of them, but there are only three that have been released in BG2. That's less than the rangers. I kind of suspect that Saerileth frightened most modders away from the class. It's the mages and fighters that are innumerable.

    1 - Dialogue with PC and other NPCs
    Probably the most important for me. If it doesn't exist, what's the point? Quantity is not better than quality, though. I think friendship tracks are important, especially to catch up to the Biowares when IEP is installed, but you should never be aiming to take over the game.

    2 - Romance option(s)
    Great if it works for the character. I don't like the somewhat pervasive sense that an NPC mod needs one, though. I'm a bit leery of the "PC and his/her five love interests" version of BG2.

    3 - Lore contribution (bringing in other story elements from FR lore)
    This is actually really important for me. Not in the sense that an NPC needs to spend every other dialogue talking about their old home in Mulhorand--because they shouldn't. You're writing a character, not a sourcebook, but if you don't do your research, it's really noticeable to me. There are plenty of otherwise decent mods that just felt a little bit off because they lack the sense of actually belonging in Faerun.

    4 - Additional quests
    As long as they're not used to show how awesome the NPC is or otherwise take over the game, they can be nice. Not really a priority for me though.

    5 - Balance (in stats and items)
    Illegal stats make me angry. Too many 18s make me angry. Items are nice as long as they're balanced.

    6 - Alignment/personality
    I have no alignment preference, except that you shouldn't get too tied up in it. Alignment is a largely arbitrary concept and shouldn't be used to define a character. Personality is important, though.

    7 - Portrait:
    Yes, please. Though I'll just replace it if I don't like it.

    8 - Sound set
    I don't really care. Having the voiced actions is nice, but I'd prefer none to a poor quality one.

    9 - Technical writing (proper grammar, spelling, etc.)
    I wouldn't say proper grammar, because not everyone speaks with proper grammar, and it wouldn't be consistent with every character to use it. Sloppy writing is another matter, though.
  • DarkDoggDarkDogg Member Posts: 598
    edited December 2013
    And again I mostly agree with @KidCarnival. Especially with his "Dialogs" thoughts.
    But for me the balance is the most important thing concerning mods.
    Special NPC items are welcome. But their stats really should be not too powerfull and not too weak either.
    Just a simple example if some NPC has STR DEX CON 18-18-18 is not ok (if it's not Sarevok).
    On the other hand I don't really mind if a dwarven fighter has 20 CON with lower DEX score like Kagain. Or if an elf has 20 DEX with lower STR score like Coran.
    Some special innate abilities are really welcome, like Dyna, Minsc, Branwen etc.
    Thats why I dislike Hexxat a lil'bit. She has too much bonuses IMO.

    The second most important thing for me is the story and the dialogs of the new NPC.
    But to be honestly I keep in mind that most modders aren't good storywriters.
    In that case it would be very welcome if modders will work together on a NPC.
    Even in the EE editions I have a strong feeling that the dialogs of the EE NPCs are really too simple and linear (or whats the right english word for this). The story has a striong connection with their alignment. But honestly I don't care for their alignment on paper. For example I really like Jaheira and Anomen are written, like real persons and not like some cartoon pattern behaviour.

    Well portraits are actually important, soundsets too. Because it's the most important part of their personalities.

    But keep in mind that we have some examples where NPCs really don't bother you with their story and dialogs but we still use them a lot - Branwen. I mean her class and stats are more important for most of the gamers than her banters or story.

    Many talented BG gamers have some really nice ideas and stories on new NPCs or even really great quests and stories (writing their stories here on the forums), but they're not good in modding. And it would be cool if this guys work together. I mean modders are more technically talented, but lack of art and fantasy. And thats the biggest downside of most of the mods. The quests and NPCs technicaly are great + great Isandir's portraits =) But their personalities suck.
    Don't get me wrong here. I know, if you don't like it - don't play. I'm not a good modder (not a modder at all), but I've created some just-for-myself-mods like the paladin of mystra or Baeloth with some banters for BG2EE. I'm not sharing them, cause I understand they are not really great and bugged and very simple, their special items are not a masterpiece =) But if you've made a mod for the community ALL THIS THINGS (in the first post) are very important. You can't then say such things that "it's just for fun or just for me if you don't like - don't play it", greater responsibility, you know. I can notice only 2 or 3 really good NPC mods (we all know them) from all of the variety...
    Post edited by DarkDogg on
  • KidCarnivalKidCarnival Member Posts: 3,747
    @Rhaella adds a really important point I forgot: Friendship paths. That's the one thing I'd appreciate most - get creative with the relationships; PC to NPC or NPC to NPC. Romances are - at least to me - of limited use because (ideally) the NPC has his/her own taste and won't romance just anyone who comes along. The original NPCs already go notably quiet if you turn down their romance, if it even triggers. In some constellations, you don't even realize romances exist and the unmodded game seems to think romances are the only kind of relationship two characters can have.

    I'd prefer friendships, friendly rivalries and - my dream mod for BG1 - mentor paths, where both charname and the NPC get a small reward for learning from each other about their class. Nothing big - an extra spell slot for casters, a THAC0 improvement for fighters; and mostly, more dialogue and banters that make the class the center of attention. Charname just lost Gorion, so it makes perfect sense to seek advice from a NPC who has seen more of the world and learn from them.
  • MordeusMordeus Member Posts: 460
    Four things about new NPCs.

    1st: Don't tie new areas to the NPCs, it's a pain having to tag along certain NPCs just to experience new content. If such a decision is made, then an alternative pathway that allows you to experience new content without a NPC should be offered. For example, with Dorn I would have offered a pathway that let you team up with the Temple of Helm to hunt down and defeat Dorn before he could launch his massacre against the Helmite Camp.

    2st: When it comes to alignment, subtlety and ambiguity is the key. Just because someone is good or evil, doesn't mean they should act exclusively good or exclusively evil. There were some shades of grey with Hexxat but Dorn was just so blatantly evil that he made Sarevok, Korgan and Edwin seem quite timid in comparison. Each evil character has glimmers of redemption to them, doesn't mean they end up fulfilling it but at least you know that there is the potential to be three dimensional. For example Korgan eventually says something nice to Aerie despite his constant insults and Edwin warms up when he tries to woe Mazzy, then you have Viconia and Sarevok who have redemption paths. On the flipside you have Anomen who has the potential to fall from grace and Keldorn who reveals himself to be a terrible father and husband and Minsc.

    That's not to say that they should all be neutral NPCs, but rather think about how they are around the other NPCs. The best guideline should be how do they fit into the setting and story but also how do they interact with their fellow NPCs. BG2's main campaign has an unavoidable tone to it that if you tip the scales too far in either end, things start to fall apart.

    3rd: No more romantic relationships. Instead explore the idea of platonic romances that don't involve marriage or sex.

    One concept of a platonic romance would be a "follower" NPC. Basically you'd take on a role like that of Gorion while the new NPC would become your ward.

    The ward would be pretty much a blank slate that you can guide and develop throughout your journey. They'd be completely naive to the outside world and their attitude would reflect that. Their alignment would start at true neutral but depending on what you teach your ward, the alignment will shift. Their stats would start relatively low like 12 for each attribute and similar dialog decisions will result in them gaining or losing certain stats. So instead of a dialog box popping up with an NPC confessing their feelings to you, they would instead look for guidance from you.

    The ward NPC would be a BG interpretation of the pnp concept of 'followers' that Rangers, Paladin, Clerics, etc... get at higher levels. To avoid the ward from being too devoid of a personality, they should have their own backstory just with the gameplay dynamic of them growing throughout the platonic romance. For example if you are a fighter, you'd get a squire that is torn from joining the Order of the Radiant Heart or joining the Athkatla guards, there would be the option to turn him into a mercenary. If you are a thief you'd get a street urchin that could further develop pickpocketing skills, become a bard, or learn how to assassinate. If you are a mage you'd get a scholar that would end up specialising. And if you are a cleric you'd get a acolyte that is discovering what faith they should pursue.

    They wouldn't have any grand quests like the new four. They'd instead have the majority of their character development from just learning and being by your side and the company of other NPCs.

    The aforementioned friendship paths would work too. Just anything that stop NPCs from trying to come onto me.

    4th: Explore the lore from the immediate region. Just because Faerun is a massive resource of different cultures doesn't mean they should all collide in BG2. I didn't like how Hexxat's quest teleports to exotic locales, or how in ToB you end up going to Lumia and Thay. There's alot that can be done with existing locations of Amn, Tethyr and the Sword Coast. The Sea of Sword/Nelanther Isles/Byrnnlaw is a region from BG2 that could provide the homeland of an interesting NPC since it is relatively untouched. Calimshan should be as exotic as it gets in BG2, and likewise with Waterdeep in BG1. Take a pre-existing aspect of the game's lore and use that as an opportunity to explore the basis for an NPC. For example Neera could have had her troubles with the Cowled Wizards instead of the Red Wizards. The outcome would have been largely the same but she'd be battling with her neighbours in the region rather than tourists from the other side of the world.

    Also just because there is something that hasn't been done in the BG series, doesn't mean it should be done. Sometimes the absence of something can actually be more interesting than having all the bases covered. For example there isn't a female dwarf, gnome or half-orc NPC in the BG series but that doesn't mean they should all be created because there is a vacancy. Having a NPC from each category imaginable is too perfected.

    I know there is alot of pressure to implement stuff from 3ed and the Neverwinter Nights games but sometimes it just doesn't fit the vast majority of what made the BG series what it is. The only reason to do so is to please and comfort a portion of the fanbase that expects the same thing in every DnD game. Stay true to the DNA and scope of the BG series and everything should be fine.
  • KaltzorKaltzor Member Posts: 1,050
    I still say a Thief for the evil parties would be nice... Preferably one with a useable skill distribution... And one that isn't a pile of ashes that requires you to remove items with EEKeeper to get rid of...
  • HeindrichHeindrich Member, Moderator Posts: 2,959
    I will rank importance from 1 to 10. 1 being "I don't care/I don't want to see this" and 10 being "OMG yes! Please! That would be awesome!"

    1 - Dialogue with PC and other NPCs
    This is very important for me personally. It really brings a character alive and adds to immersion. (10)

    2 - Romance option(s)
    I am very selective about romance options, so I do not expect somebody to create somebody to appeal to me personally. Thus I am not too bothered if a new NPC is romance-able. That said, please separate any new quest content from romance content. It really bothered me that all the new content for BG EE was associated with the new NPCs. I am hoping I do not have to romance Neera in BG 2 EE to access her quests. (4)

    3 - Lore contribution (bringing in other story elements from FR lore)
    This would be nice, but not critical. I haven't played D&D, so my lore is sketchy. A lot of information is already in the game, but it is not well organised. It would be awesome if you can build up an encylopedia of sorts as you collect books/notes in the game. A nice map of Aber-Toril, or at least Faerun, would be nice too. Right now the lore is presented as a mess of "History of the ..." books, which for a non-D&D player, is just a stream of names and places they do not recognise. (5)

    4 - Additional quests
    Of course additional content is nice. But it should flow seamlessly from the main game, and not detract from it. (7)

    5 - Balance (in stats and items)
    Current characters are not exactly balanced anyway, if we compared Rassad and Dorn in BG 1. But I would prefer for new NPCs to be weaker than stronger gameplay-wise. Their appeal should be their lore, personality and perhaps a refreshing new niche role. They should not be brokenly powerful. (8)

    6 - Alignment/personality
    This ties in directly with 1), so of course it is very important. I understand that people have very different preferences for personality. For example I like Keldorn, Mazzy and Aerie, whilst others prefer Jan, Viconia and Korgan. So what really matters is that the character is believeable, coherent and consistent. It would be very immersion-breaking for example if Aerie suddenly turned into a bitch for an encounter. Speaking of which, I really did not like Nalia's personality change in ToB. I don't know they did that. (9)

    7 - Portrait
    I can be very specific about what I like in particular. But generally, portraits should fit in with the Baldurised style. You've already mastered it well, so I have no worries on this front. (8)

    8 - Sound set
    This is also related to 1) and 6). Again the sound set should be compatible with personality. I personally would like to keep humour and outlandish stereotyping to a minimum. (8)

    9 - Technical writing (proper grammar, spelling, etc.)
    Yes this is critical for me. I get turned off when I see bad spelling/grammar. It just doesn't look very professional if it is full of typos. (9)

    10 - Something else not listed here
    I'd like to see a pure fighter of Good/Neutral alignment for BG 2, preferably a dwarf. I do like dwarves in general, but none of the ones in Baldur's Gate.

  • ryuken87ryuken87 Member Posts: 563
    Number 10. This goes at the top because it's the most important. DO NOT make NPC mods that make the game about themselves, putting unnecessary demands on the player (e.g. Saerileth). Very few NPC mods are decent and the ones that are follow the template of the Bioware NPCs in terms of content.

    I like both short races and multiclasses and fell both of these are underrepresented in BG2. A F/M or F/T would be good. Even though I'm not really a fan of humans in general, characters with the *potential* to dual class would be interesting, as this is pretty much absent in BG2.

    1. Dialogue is maybe the most important, because it's what makes that NPC unique and the reason you would take one over a second player created character.
    2. I don't care for romances at all. It's very easy for romance writing to be cringeworthy, and I'd rather time was spent on general dialogues exploring the character.
    3. I have no knowledge of FR outside of video games so I'm not that bothered, so long as it seems to make sense.
    4. Quests are nice, but as per the original statement, when making a mod DO NOT make the game about your fan made NPC.
    5. I don't like my NPCs being useless, they should be at least average to good in power, without being overpowered.
    6. As long as they aren't annoying.
    7. I don't think it's that important. The EE NPC artwork style doesn't fit at all but it's not that big a deal.
    8. No voice acting is better than bad voice acting.
    9. This should be a given.
  • IsandirIsandir Member Posts: 458
    Thank you all for the detailed answers. There are some excellent ideas that have been floated in this thread (and in particular the ideas @KidCarnival and @Mordeus raised regarding mentor/ward relationships), and even if I don't have the ability to implement them, I hope someone will. I do have a few follow-up questions for several of the points that have been raised.

    @typo_tilly: When you say that modders shouldn't overdo banter dialogue, do you also mean the length of the banters in addition to the number of them? I never actually played through BG with the NPC project installed, so do you recall how long each individual banter typically was?

    @KidCarnival & @DarkDogg: What do you think are some of the ways in which modders could balance out an abnormally high stat? There's obviously the option of dropping another stat quite low, but there must be other ways to do it as well.

    @Rhaella & ryuken87: I've seen another thread mentioning Saerileth (in a not-so-fond manner). What made the mod unappealing for you?

    @Heindrich1988: When you mention the idea of an encyclopedia, do you mean a NPC mod that includes it, or simply a different kind of mod that than those currently being made? I'm imagining something similar to a lot of first-person shooters, in which entries are made based on encounters in the game world (enemies, locations, weapons, etc.).
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    Also, I would recommend using the Mary Sue Litmus Test to avoid making your character into one of those...
  • IsandirIsandir Member Posts: 458
    shawne said:

    Also, I would recommend using the Mary Sue Litmus Test to avoid making your character into one of those...

    I love the question asking if the character is "effortlessly, exceptionally beautiful, cute, or handsome?" It reminds me of far too many posts I've read (not only here at the BG forum) from overzealous fans of games who make their own characters and describe them as totally uber-powerful, beautiful/handsome, and super-intelligent, yet with a sensitive and/or dark side that make them misunderstood...
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    @Isandir: God knows the majority of BG2 mod NPCs would fail that test one way or another...
  • HeindrichHeindrich Member, Moderator Posts: 2,959
    Isandir said:


    @Heindrich1988: When you mention the idea of an encyclopedia, do you mean a NPC mod that includes it, or simply a different kind of mod that than those currently being made? I'm imagining something similar to a lot of first-person shooters, in which entries are made based on encounters in the game world (enemies, locations, weapons, etc.).

    I am not sure if it is feasible... but what I had in mind was something like in Diablo 3, where each time you encounter a new enemy, the game adds an entry to the character's diary, which basically provides lore background. So for example, when you find a History of Halruua, it would be nice if you can save the text to your journal, which organises all lore documents in a logical way, either alphabetically, or by subject matter, or by geographic region etc...

    For example if I want to refresh my knowledge of Halruua after coming across the Thieves' Guild in Baldur's Gate, I'd open up my journal, click on a 'lore' page, and it should lead to a page that's like an index for everything I've found so far, and then I can click on 'History of Halruua'.

    Also, assuming I have the correct documents already copied, there should be hot-links between different articles, much like an wikipedia article. For example whilst reading about Thay, I might find a reference to Halruua, and I can click on "Halruua" to view the article dedicated to Halruua.

    Right now I don't bother gathering history books because of how much they weigh and how much space they take up. This would allow the information to be presented in a much more user friendly manner. But as I said, I don't know if it is even feasible to implement.
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    @Heindrich1988: Those books are completely irrelevant, though - I mean, what does the history of Shadowdale or Calimshan have to do with anything in the game?
  • KidCarnivalKidCarnival Member Posts: 3,747
    Balancing illegaly high stats other than dropping another stat... Well, mostly, that wouldn't even qualify as a downside. In BG1, you have tomes and in BG2 items to increase stats. People even dump relevant stats on charname if they know they can get - for example, dex gauntlets or strength belt - early in the game. In BG2, the only stat you could drop as an actual downside would be dex since there is just one item to increase it and a lot competition for it (among the frontliners anyway).

    Blocking a relevant item slot permanently, like it is done with Edwin or Alora, is an actual downside - a non-removable item in a place where you would normally have other, possibly much better options. Sure, Edwin's extra spells are nice, but there are also many nice necklaces he can never use. It depends on the class and the available items which slot to block to make it a downside.

    Then there's the option to limit party options - have the NPC refuse to travel with another NPC, like Neera and Edwin, the two most powerful arcane casters, won't stay in a party together. This can also double for backstory by adding a good reason why the mod NPC dislikes the other NPC or vice versa.
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • nanonano Member Posts: 1,632
    Isandir said:

    shawne said:

    Also, I would recommend using the Mary Sue Litmus Test to avoid making your character into one of those...

    I love the question asking if the character is "effortlessly, exceptionally beautiful, cute, or handsome?" It reminds me of far too many posts I've read (not only here at the BG forum) from overzealous fans of games who make their own characters and describe them as totally uber-powerful, beautiful/handsome, and super-intelligent, yet with a sensitive and/or dark side that make them misunderstood...
    Hey, I spent two hours rolling those stats, I'll be damned if I let them go to waste!
  • HeindrichHeindrich Member, Moderator Posts: 2,959
    shawne said:

    @Heindrich1988: Those books are completely irrelevant, though - I mean, what does the history of Shadowdale or Calimshan have to do with anything in the game?

    @shawne

    Not much other than that it is background lore to the same setting within which the events of the game occurs. I really enjoyed reading about Amnish conquests in Maztica, and reading about places and peoples from beyond the Sword Coast. It made the world all the more immersive. Not everything in the game needs to be directly related to the plot of the game.

    If you are a D&D player, you will know all about Beholders, Drow, Illithids, Thay, Halruua, Underdark etc... Whereas I just came across a bunch of Rilmani, and could only describe them as "hmm... they look like blue glowing humanoids..."

    It is not a vital feature. Just what would be a nice bonus if possible. Currently ingame lore is not at all well organised or practical.
  • jackjackjackjack Member Posts: 3,251
    edited December 2013
    One of my favorite things to do in these games was pick up/steal books, go to a pub/inn/elven arse, sit down and read through them. It would've been great if some books more directly related to the game were included as well, I have to agree. Nevertheless, I found it a thoroughly enjoyable way to learn the lore of the Realms. I'm also probably in the minority that wishes the books were longer.
  • RhaellaRhaella Member, Developer Posts: 178
    Isandir said:

    @Rhaella & ryuken87: I've seen another thread mentioning Saerileth (in a not-so-fond manner). What made the mod unappealing for you?

    Everything. The concept was unnecessarily extreme and poorly executed. The Bioware NPCs were often wildly out of character. I wouldn't have minded the Elizabethan English if it had been used correctly, but it wasn't. I also wouldn't have cared that she was 15 if the mod didn't make a big deal about how everyone around disapproved.

    A lot of extremely Medieval Christian sentiments were superimposed over the Tyrran faith because apparently the authors couldn't be bothered to do any research into what Tyr actually stood for. There's a lot of stuff in it that's pretty deliberately misogynistic as a result, and that always sends me completely through the roof.
  • CrevsDaakCrevsDaak Member Posts: 7,155
    edited December 2013
    @jackjack Story of Shadowdale XXIV :/ :P
    Oh god, it took me AGES to find all those Shadowdale freaking books!!!
    Now, in BG2:EE I have realized Irenicus is a good pal and has em' ALL in his library.
    What an asshole, I've never realized before.
  • TwaniTwani Member Posts: 640
    Just some scattered thoughts:

    Soundsets and portraits are nice. They're really nice. But they're never as important as the writing of your mod, and you can make a mod if you don't have either. In my experience, people are more apt to get annoyed at a badly done soundset (you can hear breathing, outside noise, the volume wildly changes, the accent doesn't fit at all, etc etc) then they are at no soundset at all. Plenty of successful mods have no soundset. They do help, but people will still download your mod without them.

    If you don't know forgotten realms lore, it's probably best to stick with what's presented in game. Part of the reason the Saerileth mod is so bad (though there are many) is that for a Chosen of Tyr, almost everything presented has nothing to do with the actual god Tyr in the Realms. Don't write a long story about your character being from Chult if you don't know anything about Chult. I've been a Forgotten Realms player (if not always fan) from first edition, and I'd like to say I know a pretty good amount about the realms. I'm currently working on an NPC from Calimshan (well, you're aware of that, Isandir, but hey). I swear in the last month, I have read the Empires of the Shining Sea boxed set eight times fully, and probably the full Calimport book even more then that. I am now a font of useless knowledge about Calimshan. Will all of that be important for my NPC? Of course not. This is not the story of 'Calimshan Lore', it is the story of 'CHARNAME, who many be accompanied by some dude from Calimshan'. But knowing the lore is important, because just one single utterly wrong fact can cause a player to stop and stare at their screen, do a "...That's not the way the Realms works", and completely break their immersion in the mod.

    I'm not saying you have to do that much research for a mod. But if you don't want to do any research, consider making your character a human from Amn that doesn't directly serve a God. Change maybe one fact about that- make a cleric, and do a lot of research on that specific God, or make a halfling, and do a lot of research on Realm halflings- rather then making the exotic aquatic elf from freakin' Chult who serves Deep Sashelas and Trishina when what you know about the Forgotten Realms comes only from video games, for example. If you do want to do research, also, remember that Baldur's Gate takes place in the AD&D edition of the world. Third edition did make some very relevant changes to the world, and fourth edition made even more ones. You'll want to be reading 2nd edition lorebooks.

    People like NPC's who talk with them, but try to be somewhat unique with your talks. I mean, every NPC has the Bhaalspawn talk. There's no way of getting around it. Even a good portion of the canon NPC's have it (Yoshimo, anyone?), and your NPC has to find out about the Bhaal heritage someway. But you don't need to have to have the Candlekeep Talk, the Gorion Raised Me talk, the I Hate Irenicus Talk, the I was tortured talk, the I See Imoen as a Sister/This Annoying Brat who is always in my way talk, the Gee Khalid and Dyna Sure Will Be Missed talk... try just to have a few of them, or even as few as possible. Really. And try to come up with a few unique things to talk about while you're there.

    (But at the same time, be certain that you have talks about the PC in some fashion, too- 'Hey, Lady, why don't you ask me about MY adventurers?' only worked so well for a certain NPC, as the amount of romance mods for female CHARNAME's will surely show.)

    Romance? It can be fun to write, and they're fun to play, but never feel like you need to write one. Mods with romances do seem to be a bit more successful then mods without romances, and if you don't write a romance, you'll probably be bombarded with requests to write one. In my opinion, the modding community could use more gay/lesbian romances (I'd like to say Dorn and Hexxet helped with evening things out, but the EE romances are so short and undetailed compared to even the original romances that they didn't do much), but it could *really* use more romances for the short races. Almost every mod: romancable by female humans, half-elves, and elves, and maybe half-orcs if the writer is feeling generous. Dwarves, gnomes, and halflings don't get much love.

    Oh, and personally? I care about balance. I will not make a cleric more powerful then Viconia, a mage more powerful then Edwin, or anyone near the power of Sarevok. There are a few mods out there with certain stats of 25. 25! I don't care if the rest of the stats are 6, there is nothing balanced about that. That said, the best way to balance out a high stat is to take up an item slot on the NPC. Having them refuse to get along with another NPC was suggested above, and that can be a good idea, too.

    Quests are fun. New areas are hard. ;_; But people do love mods with new areas. If you can make them, you'll probably get added interest in your mod.
  • IsandirIsandir Member Posts: 458
    @Twani: I agree entirely about the lore aspect. Like you, I've been immersed in the Forgotten Realms setting through books and guides in addition to games (for over 20 years now, which just made me feel old), and it drives me up the wall when I see errors in the lore. That's one reason why I like @Heindrich1988's suggestion of an in-game encyclopedia. I personally think it would be a wonderful addition (with or without a NPC) that could enhance the game setting a lot. Hopefully someone out there has the skill to pull it off.

    On another note, I'd also love to see more areas added through mods, but I've almost never encountered it. Are there any area mod-makers lurking on these boards that would be willing to take part in any projects?
  • MordeusMordeus Member Posts: 460
    @Isandir The problem with area mods is that they rely largely on cutting and pasting bits of existing areas. So the result isn't very desirable, as your eye can pick up where they took the bits from. There have been some modders with the graphic skills to make new ones but they don't go beyond the drawing board because it is alot of work.

    That's why many were excited with the BG:EE project because it meant new professional areas added to the game. Unfortunately the new areas were either scarcely populated with things to do or they were bound to a certain NPC. Such a shame they weren't standalone areas like the Tales of the Sword Coast expansion was for BG1 vanilla. If BG:EE introduced several different Ulgoth's Beard type maps that would have been perfect. Like mini little quest hubs that didn't overlap the original content but provided extra quests.

    Like a Queldin's Mask map that is a ghost town to the right of Beregost. Or a Cape Velen map that gives you quests for the Nelanther Isles region. Or a Darromar city map for Throne of Bhaal that gives that expansion a true city location. If they had one "Ulgoth's Beard" for BG1:EE, one for BG2:EE's SoA portion and one for BG2:EE's ToB portion it would have been great. Then have mini regions surrounding each one. I think that would have been a better use of resources than making incredibly details area maps for Lumia of which you spend an incredibly short time in. Even if they couldn't manage to flesh out a city or town map, it would have given modders the space to insert their own quests. At this point you can't really do much with the Lumia map because it is such a niche location for a niche NPC. I actually don't understand why they wasted so much effort in creating Lumia, arguably the most visually stunning location in the game for such a short quest.

    As for an ingame encyclopedia, there might be some copyright issues if they were to rip portions out of the old lorebooks. As for writing new text, that would be a rather daunting task, especially when it would require alot of detail and near paraphrasing. I think it would be simpler if they redid the BG2 world map where a simple right click on a area icon would bring up detailed information on that said region. So a right click on Athkatla would give you stats on the town and historical information.
Sign In or Register to comment.